| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
True. But I do not believe that conformity to the norm will be the way Buell goes to achieve this. Court has often said "amongst the top 5 in the next 5 years". If you think about it, you can reach that goal as stated w/o following in the IL4 and conventional wisdom of today's consistent race winners. To be in the top 5 worldwide then Buell will have to become more conventional I believe. That will be the ONLY way to compete head on against the very best the rest of the world has to offer. People buy bikes with radial calipers because they know they work, no doubts. Chains are still more popular than belts because people trust them and know them. Hydraulic forks are still in vogue despite being proved to be inefficient than alternative front suspension systems. It is no coincidence that BMW used conventional forks on their 'mass market' bikes such as the F800 and F650 models. This is because it is what we know and is less risk for the manufacturers. All of the cuting edge suspension/brake/chassis parts on the 'other' bikes may not work as well in theory as the Buell ZTL or belt drive or fuel in frame ideas, but in practice and every day use there is very little difference and no appreciable advantage in Buell being different. In fact I would go so far as to say that Buell are often different just for the sake of being different. Sometimes being different isn't an advantage and actually works against you, and if you want to be in the top 5 then look to what the curent top 5 are doing. As I said earlier, there is not a single 'unconventional ' bike in the top 20 Bike survey. | ||
| Barker |
I cant wait! I added a countdown clock (complete with Bad WX) to my myspace page. http://www.myspace.com/mattofnashville PM me If you want the code for your page. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Yesterdays "Cutting Edge" technology is tomorrows "Conventional Wisdom". | ||
| Court |
>>>>if you want to be in the top 5 then look to what the current top 5 are doing. The corollary to that is that you run the risk of setting your goals and objectives too low in an effort "to be as good as". Anything that has ever been or become practical, be mindful, started as theory. Theory is where folks like Pythagoras, Newton and Da Vinci started. Boeing builds airplanes; they have the folks who developed the theory for enabling their practical applications. Dreamers seldom are heard to say "I wish I could be as good as . . ." and my intent is not to sound arrogant but Erik Buell, and many of the engineers at Buell sometimes look more at the goal line than the stripes on the field. Don't be fooled into thinking Buell has any lock on this mindset. I've had two good friends who were with Honda R&D. Honda is an amazing company and has, more than their fair share, raised the bar. In this day and age we're pretty much denied having the "good and bad" distinctions we did when Honda made the Cub and Lucas was making electrics. We'd simply find the good, the bad and decide accordingly. These days, I'd challenge anyone to dismiss any motorcycle based on "fact". . Most purchases boil down to a matter of subjective preference. Buell, I agree with you, needs to look at the competition and they do. They need to be thinking not "how can we be like them", but asking "what constrains an amazing company like Honda from running away from the pack?” It is company politics? An inability to quickly move great ideas to commercial products or $$ (I'm guessing that's not the issue) but to constantly be asking what element of their success is the constraint. Buell operates in an intellectual environment that, within the industry, is a one of a kind and the envy of several companies. Don't get me wrong, Honda is not tripping over themselves to become more "Buell like", but the power of "the Buell way" of working has not gone unnoticed and competitors have not been too shy to request, and be granted, tours of the East Troy facility to see how such consistency is being achieved while having mere mortals (I call them ELVES) build motorcycles. You've heard me, no doubt, say that Buell keeps "PEOPLE" in the process for the same reason NASA has a human in the cockpit. Buell will never be a threat to the "big" guys in the industry. It was never part of any big plan and the mere pursuit of such a goal would be a fool's exercise. Buell will change the way many people look at motorcycle and how ideas get from the innovative mind to the commercial marketplace. I'm looking for some really neat stuff. I have no disagreement with anything you said. Again, there are no villains. But, in 20 years of Buellin', I've never been more excited than I am with the current crop of people, vision, leadership and dedication. I expect to own more Buells. Court | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Sold and traded in a KLR 250 & Ninja 600rr to get my CityX, no regrets... holding off on the TT, waiting to see the new Dirty bike  Blue in the face with anticipation. Triumph builds a nice bike, after all afternoon of demo-ing their fleet, I felt it was as if somebody took the Buell and made it "behave". Why would I ever want that? To me there just wasnt the Umph in the Triumph (cue the peanut gallery!) | ||
| Nicozzzz |
I agree 100% with court, and I wan't to add that till now buell had produced very funny bike that put driver in best condition of control the bike .. surely serius race is very important to be at the center of world press and world customer attention. remember the ducati miracle desmo engine and tubolar frame in motogp.... all people say with tubolar frame they never be competitive is in front of all the results .. important think ever is idea and who belive in it .. xb give show the new ideas of the bike to all bike maker now the major company realize exhaust under engine .. maybe for the others is fashion more than the original Idea of give a lower center of gravity to the bike ... and centralization of the wheight but the scholl was buell .. now racetrack is more complex and surely to be really competitive is absolutely need big experience and probably to pay a duty ... but important is start .... and new ideas is what surely miss on the bike world now , every bike is the top of the actual technology big develope of every think from frame to tyre , but in the last 20 years no big revolution are appened .. no totally new concept of bike ... is a big bet to know who will do the next revolution of the bike world .. if will be buell I will be totaly happy | ||
| Staindus |
+1 to DOCTOR Nicozzzz | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm just amazed that NOBODY seems to be able to find the drawings/photos/whatever that Buell accidentally/on purpose posted SOMEWHERE. Court, throw us a bone here! I don't think I can wait 'til Sunday. Hey, wait a minute; I'm 15 minutes from the Dragon this week. I just thought of something better I can do than read BadWeb.... | ||
| Jaimec |
I believe the REAL reason BMW uses forks on the "F" and "G" model bikes are to keep prices down. They can source those parts from generic suppliers. Since BMW is the ONLY manufacturer to use Tele-Lever or Duo-Lever front ends, the price is higher for those parts. The reason they use conventional forks on the HP Megamoto and GS bikes are for the added suspension travel. | ||
| Trojan |
I expect to own more Buells. As do I  and I am waiting impatiently for the new model so I can put my money down again on yet another new Buell. The difference this time is that there are now an awful lot of very good bikes in the same market sector as Buell, and the new model will have to win my heart and be better than the other options available, I won't just buy one because of the name on the tank. I have every confidence that we will see an exciting bike that we have all been anticipating, I just have this niggling (and probably undeserved) premonition of anti climax and want the wait to be over. | ||
| Iugradmark |
Curious how folks feel about how a major change in direction for new engines on bikes that are only a few years old now will impact their current rides. For those that have purchased in the past couple of years, I imagine the value of your bike, the availability of aftermarket support, and willingness of dealers to invest in maintenance training will greatly diminish. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I saw a mockup(?) picture(?) of that new Aprilla Shiver in the new Cycle World... Was it just me, or did those front forks look like some sort of spindly throwback to my previous 1986 Yamaha streetbike? To my uneducated eye, it looked like something much more aimed at an SV650 (make it cheap, and as good as we can under those constraints) rather then an XB (make it good, and as cheap as we can under those constraints). (and again, for the record, this is not a slam on the SV650, it's a great bike for the price and I have recommended several to friends for whom they are appropriate). | ||
| Davegess |
Buell will never be a threat to the "big" guys in the industry I gotta think that Erik is planning on kicking some serious butt some day, just not tomorrow. He wouldn't be Erik if he wasn't. | ||
| Ducxl |
I gotta think that Erik is planning on kicking some serious butt some day, just not tomorrow. Which reminds me of a famous friends quote. "There is no greater deterrent to action than,the knowledge that something has to be done..........but not just yet." And in business that's a heck of a lot of missed opportunity.Silly philosophy. | ||
| Court |
>>>>He wouldn't be Erik if he wasn't. Point conceded. My intent was to convey that he has no interest in producing lawn mowers, weed wackers or garden tractors. Of course, part of the reason is that he has fought personal battles, and lost some, to most the above named garden tools. Someone was recently "grounded" from his prized tractor for reckless driving. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Well it's just a few days from the big day and we have no teasers. I recall a few "leaks" and teasers leading up to the announcement of the Uly. Tick tock, tick tock; I'm going for a ride. | ||
| Ducxl |
I went for a ride with a Badwebber today (excellent people!) and was told a rumor at the coffee bar that HD is buying Ducati.Old,i know.... | ||
| Barker |
no Honda is buying HD. | ||
| Trojan |
I imagine the value of your bike, the availability of aftermarket support, and willingness of dealers to invest in maintenance training will greatly diminish. You may be right on the first and last point, but we have no intention of slackening up on XB aftermarket parts | ||
| Whitj |
No, Ford is buying HD  | ||
| 007blast |
I know this is old news to a lot of you. imagine the idea of a duck-hog merger. Ducati Motor Holding, the listed Italian motorcycle manufacturer, would consider a merger with US-based Harley-Davidson “anytime”, said Enrico D’Onofrio, CFO. A merger with Harley-Davidson would be “totally complementary”, he said, responding to speculation in the market that the two firms had been in talks. And while he declined to comment on the speculation, he did say that the two companies are similar in that they create recreational bikes that consumers fantasize about. “People want to buy a dream.” Harley-Davidson has an older consumer profile, with an average age of 55, while Ducati owners are about 35, on average. Half of all Ducati owners in the US also own a Harley, D’Onofrio added. A potential combination with the US company could also help Ducati with procurement, as Harley is a larger company that is able to get better quality products at lower prices. A marriage would also increase distribution opportunities for Ducati, which is a relatively small manufacturer. “In the US, we do not have critical mass,” D’Onofrio said. “In this market, you must.” D’Onofrio said Harley could also stand to benefit, as it could be interested in expanding internationally. “The US market is flattening,” D’Onofrio said. Asked if Harley-Davidson has ever visited Ducati’s factory in Bologna, the executive said: “Yes, we are good friends.” He said Harley visited as recently as two months ago. Still, D’Onofrio acknowledged that some at the top of the company believe a combination with another company could dilute the Ducati brand, which dates back to the 1920s. But D’Onofrio said it is his opinion that the company could maintain its strong brand identity, even in the case of a strategic buyout. Ducati faced difficult times in 2005 and 2006, but now has a new shareholder and is focused on reducing fixed costs and increasing margins. The company has decided to limit the number of its entry bikes, and focus on its higher-end and higher-margin motorcycles, D’Onofrio said. Texas Pacific Group sold its 30% minus one share stake in Ducati in March 2006, after holding it from 1996, to Investindustrial, an Italian private equity firm. The company has also changed its R&D structure, focusing more on racing, and has brought in a former Toyota executive to oversee quality, D’Onofrio said. The executive estimates that Ducati will be ready to consider a “marriage” in about one- to- three years, or once it meets its goals promised to shareholders. D’Onofrio said Ducati aims to reach EBITDA of greater than 14% and to sell 50,000 bikes per year by the end of 2008. The company is currently at about 15% EBITDA, and sold 32,000 bikes in 2006. Also as a result of its restructuring, Ducati has reduced its debt to about 30%, and could therefore also consider acquisitions, D’Onofrio said. Ducati once considered a purchase of Moto Guzzi, which has since been acquired by Piaggio. Husqvarna could also be a potential fit, but is likely to be acquired by BMW, and is therefore not really on the market, D’Onofrio said. He also downplayed the likelihood of another private equity buyout, explaining that after the involvement of TPG and Investindustrial, Ducati now needs to focus on its strategic outlook. “I truly think we need to find an industrial alliance,” he said. “It’s clear the market is consolidating. The Japanese own more than 80% of the market,” D’Onofrio noted. He cited speculation regarding a Piaggio and Harley-Davidson tie-up, as well as a Piaggio and Ducati combination, which he said could both be logical scenarios. But for Ducati, D’Onofrio said: “If you ask me, the best scenario is Harley.” Ducati has longstanding relationships with both Unicredit and Mediobanca, but D’Onofrio said Mediobanca knows the company best. Ducati is not seeking advisors in the US, but has worked with Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley in the past for private placements. The US and Italy each generate about 25% of Ducati sales, while Germany, UK, France, Japan and the rest of the world bring in 10% each, D’Onofrio said. Investindustrial, BS Investimenti and HOPP together own about 30% of Ducati. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
As do I and I am waiting impatiently for the new model so I can put my money down again on yet another new Buell. The difference this time is that there are now an awful lot of very good bikes in the same market sector as Buell, and the new model will have to win my heart and be better than the other options available, That's exactly the point. In your earlier post about the top 20 bikes: 1 Honda CBR600RR 2 Triumph 675 Street Triple 3 Triumph Tiger 4 Yamaha R6 5 Triumph Daytona 675 6 Honda Fireblade 7 KTM 950 Supermoto 8 Aprilia Tuono 9 Triumph Speed Triple 1050 10 Kawasaki ZZR1400 11 Honda Hornet 600 12 Suzuki GSXR750 13 Suzuki GSXR1000 14 Yamaha R1 15 Kawasaki Versys 650 16 Kawasaki ZX6R 17 KTM Superduke 990 18 Yamaha FZ1 Fazer 19 Triumph Sprint ST 20 Aprilia Shiver SL750 How many of them haven't had at minimum a major update or at most are completely brand new from the ground up? I'm surprised that Buell ranked as high as it did considering there hasn't been a major revision in the line since 2003. Yes I know the TT and 12X are "new", but they are not going to be considered new by those performing the ranking. Honda CBR600RR--Brand new ground up revision for 2007 Triumph 675 Speed Triple--Brand new ground up revision for 2008 Triumph Tiger--Brand new ground up revision for 2007 Yamaha R6--Brand new ground up revision for 2006 Triumph Daytona 675--Brand new ground up revision for 2006 Honda Fireblade--Midmodel redesign for 2006 KTM 950 Supermoto--Brand new model for 2006 Aprilia Tuono--Brand new ground up revision for 2006/2007 Triumph Speed Triple 1050--Brand new ground up revision for 2006 Kawasaki ZZR1400--Brand new ground up revision for 2006 Honda Hornet--Brand new model for 2007 Suzuki GSX-R750--Mid Model revision for 2006 Suzuki GSX-R1000--Brand new ground up revision for 2007 Yamaha R1--Brand new ground up revision for 2007 Kawasaki Versys--Brand new model for 2008 Kawasaki ZX6R--Brand new ground up revision for 2007 KTM Superduke 990--Brand new revision for 2007 Yamaha FZ1--Brand new ground up revision for 2006 Triumph Sprint ST--Brand new revision for 2005 Aprilia Shiver SL750--Brand new model for 2008 I believe something new is indeed in the wind. Why? There are simply too many great bikes on the market for the current line-up of Buells to remain competitive without change. It isn't just about spec sheets. It's about capturing the imagination and excitement of potential buyers. We all are motorcycle raccoons in search of the next new shiny object. Although I LOOOOOOOVE my Ulysses, there have been several brighter, shinier objects introduced to the market since 2005. I expect that, in expected fashion, the elves will be breaking out the polish. Something shiny this way comes! | ||
| Ducxl |
It's about capturing the imagination and excitement of potential buyers. Potential Y/K/S/H buyers.I don't care who they are as long as they can make Buell a more profitable/prosperous company.Cuz we all benefit from that. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Potential Y/K/S/H buyers.I don't care who they are as long as they can make Buell a more profitable/prosperous company.Cuz we all benefit from that. Agreed. Which is what every non-H/Y/S/K company is trying to do as well as what each of the H/Y/S/K company is trying to do. Some believe the race technology drives the model updates. The model updates are required whether there is a race team or not. That's marketing. That's what it takes to remain competitive in the only race that matters. The open market. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I hear the dealer meeting is this weekend, right here in Nashville. Wonder if I can sneak in?? | ||
| Teddagreek |
Don't forget the Ducatis New models. Victory just unveiled the the Vision. Rumor is they are about to release a Sport Bike for 08 as well | ||
| Kuuud |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/253 912/289489.html?1183514905 Excellent! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Until I see the issue, I say BS on it. Not the bike, but that the article is written on an actual bike. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
+1 | ||
| Blake |
Did anyone see where Motorcyclist is going to be racing a Buell at Road America this week? Did I read that somewhere or just get confused about something else concerning Buell and Motorcyclist? |
