| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
Thanks Cg, for recognising what I was trying to say. I assumed incorrectly you were just up for the argument, so yeah, sorry I was a little abrupt with my last post. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
the american street fighter....that was the choice buell made for a bike..a sales pitch, a way of seperating their bikes from the pack....a streetfighter by defenition is a stripped down, high horsepower, agile, machine modified for battle on the means streets of wherever....maybe some of us just want the rest of the package....we all bought our buells for different reason but the common thread seems to be we want a little more oof...i dont want my buell to be a gixxer zixxer or cbrixxer...i want that mean lookin bastard child to run like it looks and sounds..i want a freakin vmax killer and busa beatin asphalt eatin bitch...my rumor is buell is going to shock the world theyve done it before ive grown to love my buell like an frisky ex girlfriend ....i want a bike that when u put the spurs to her she makes people run for cover.... Great post. Needed repeating. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Sean, you are just so damn smart. A legend in your own mind. I can't wait till you have to eat crow. And you will. Sooner or later. I'm betting sooner. RockSprink, dude. No one I'd wager, has eaten more humble pie than I on the BadWeB. Probably because I've made some monumental f*ckk ups, but dog, I love humble pie as long as it has a crumble top.  Rocket | ||
| Barker |
RC8 (Firebolt Killer) and RC8 Venom (Lightning Killer)Estimated production date 2007 Liquid cooled v twin 1000cc 130hp+ RC8 Venom  If its less than 13K I'll get one. Cuz the 1098 I can get for 15k. That is if I dont see a competitor from east troy. Not hating on buell, If they dont make some changes me and a few other buyers will be going to KTM or Duc. | ||
| Dutchboy |
The Ducati Monster has been around for a while. Ducati just keeps refining it and offering low (620/695), middle (800/S2R) and high end (S4R) versions - so people who want higher performance can have it as long as they've got the scratch to pay. Triumph has evolved the Speed Triple, gradually bumping up displacement and improving the chassis while still keeping it a great standard/hooligan bike. I hope Buell sees fit to follow the same winning strategy with the XB. There's still plenty of room for improvement without giving up its essential qualities of simplicity, agility, relative comfort and grunt. Personally I'm more interested in Buell improving quality and simplifying maintenance than in increasing power. I'd rather ride than wrench (or pay someone else to wrench). And in my opinion, as both a Harley and Buell owner, anything that increases the dependence of the average Buell owner on HD service departments (like say shim and bucket valve trains) is likely not a good thing for Buell. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think the typical flaming comes in when someone expresses that they prefer more power. Someone always seems to chime in that if they want a GSXR beater it will be cookie cutter, etc. and that Buell does not need to build 160hp bikes. Problem is, people aren't asking for 160hp bikes as the flamers suggest. They are just asking for improved horsepower. The XB12 makes about the same power as my 1999 X1 did. Is it such a sin to say that you'd like more power than your 1990's Buell had? This is not the same as saying you want Buell to build a GSXR clone. I think Barker is pointing out the alternatives that Buell could compete with and stay in a special niche. The Katooms and Ducatis are special bikes that don't need to have GSXR horsepower to be desireable. However, 85 horsepower at the rear as the strongest Buell is just not in the ballpark that many people like to play in. I'm pretty happy with my lump right now, but in a couple of years I may want something a little quicker for my next bike. I hope Buell is building it then so I have the option. | ||
| Jiffy |
Buell should be emulating Ducati in some ways. Ducati cannot really compete head to head with the Japanese bikes but they do compete in a way. Ducati's are not all as fast or dollar for dollar as good as Japanese bikes, but there are people who still won't buy anything but a Ducati. Does this sound familiar (BUELLER?) Ducati does have a machine that can eat up most Japanese bikes and do it with style (999 or now the 1098) These bikes cost more than a Japanese bikes but the parts on the bike, styling cues, and exclusiveness of these bikes are worth it to many people. If you don't think Ducati is turning over a new leaf just look at tons of other forums the 1098 is selling like hotcakes. People that normally wouldn't spend more than $10,000 on a Japanese bike are buying 1098's. Short and sweet: Buell can keep the XB line and continue building air-cooled bikes, but they need to build something for the guys who wanna Ricky Bobby it (wanna go fast). Having more than just the one street bike to choose from would not hurt Buell. It was a good start when they came out with the ULY. Adding more different types of bikes can only be a good thing. A dirt bike, XB hooligan bike, Water-cooled or air-cooled Racer type. This would be great IMHO. (Message edited by jiffy on May 21, 2007) | ||
| Samiam |
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| Court |
Love that mass centralized muffler . . THANK YOU ERIK BUELL!  | ||
| Asym50 |
Well said Dutchboy. Those that want the "difference" will buy from vendors like KTM, Ducati, etc. if Buell has no new offerings. There is nothing wrong with appreciating and riding more than one brand. Buy and ride what you like. The bottom line is the riding. | ||
| Buellicrat |
I've been away from the badweb for a few months and it looks like a bunch of women bitchin about their best friends here. Buell has to make changes for sure. And this is worth repeating. There dealerships are failing overall. If Buell would allow their bikes to be sold with other lines besides H-D, they would likely sell more bikes. The new KTM looks great. The reason KTM will surpass Buell in the next few years is because of SUPERIOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. I have owned 3 KTM's, and not just the dealers, but the corporate level takes care of their customers. I love a free Buell bag on the local dealer demo days, but the dealer doesn't even want to put Buell's on a floor that will take space from a sportster or ultraglide that will make them a greater profit and likely to make the service department much much more. | ||
| Asym50 |
Pity that corporate greed may be the demise of our beloved Buells. At the very least, as Baker said, Buell owners will move to vendors who have what they want. I'm all for brand loyalty as long as the brand has what I want. The XB12Scg will stand next the whatever the next bike I buy is branded. It will continue to be appreciated for what it is. The XB is a great sample of a motorcycle in the continuum of motorcycle evolution. | ||
| Spatten1 |
This is a great thread. We care about future Buell models, which says something about us. I think the dealer network is important as stated above. Buells would look really good in my local Triumph/BMW dealer. They'd fit right in. I wouldn't have to talk to some idiot salesman in a leather vest that knows nothing about motorcycles. | ||
| Asym50 |
I'll revise my loyalty statement to; I would be more inclined to be loyal to the Buell brand despite their model offerings/lack there of, if the CUSTOMER SERVICE were exemplary. I will go to extraordinary lengths to not have to deal with the Service Dept. of the dealer I bought the bike from. No need to go there, enough has been said about that. If the KTM becomes reality for me and the ownership experience with KTMs local vendor is as Beullicrat describes, guess who I'm going with for future purchases? Corporate America just doesn't seem to get that GOOD customer service generates brand loyalty. Overall, I get the impression they see the consumer as disposable and there's more of them out there. Who knows, statistically they may have determined that and don't care about loyal, repeat customers. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Concerning the dealer network: I think it is also because there is no alternative to Harleys for those that want them. Whether it is the actual machine or the image, they will ride no other brand. If you have no real competition, it is easy to rest on your laurels. This, unfortunately, is not the same for the Buell buyer who I believe has much more knowledge and flexibility than the typical Harley customer. | ||
| Buellshyter |
.... it looks like a bunch of women bitchin about their best friends here Nothing truer has ever been said. For a small company with a small budget, I'd say Buell has done a great job. They took an old motor design and breathed new life into it, wrapped it with a modern frame following the "triology of tech" and came away with a very cool, albeit; niche bike. I don't believe anyone had visions of grandeur that the XB would be competing on the track with the big boys, although there is fun to be had on the track with an Xb. Buell is trying to build a motorcycle company that will last and building off the basic Xb platform with the Uly, TT, etc is a proven way to maximize profit so that the capital is available to create that Busa killer or competition dirt bike. Some are threatening to leave the brand. I say, slow down - take a deep breath. This is the best time to be a Buell owner. The company is just starting to come of age and I bet the most exciting times still lie ahead. Where else can you meet the designer of your bike who bares his name? We ride one of the coolest most exclusive bikes around. Think of the excitement you feel when you see another Buell on the road - the rare sight that it is. The comradery shared by the few. These days won't last forever. One day Buell will grow into a large corporation or cease to exist, Erik Buell will fade from the scene and all that will be left will be the memories that we all took part in a special piece of motorcycle history. | ||
| Cgocifer |
Rocket: No prob, it's difficult to read tone on the screen. Things are always misconstrued. As for the KTMs, the RC8 is nice, but I think it looks a little weird here and there. It kinda looks pregnant in the tank area  . The Venom version is really growing on me. As for the cost, I'm sure it won't be cheap. That's ok, I'll just wait until some used ones are available for purchase (Depending on what comes out of East Troy)! As for Ducati, my thoughts are as follows: They've always had a mystique about them, probably due to their (mainly the 916 series/999 series) exclusivity and astronomical pricing. Now; however, they (1098) have a somewhat affordable price tag, so they are beginning to loose that exclusivity a bit. Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing, but they are losing some of that exotica they once had. It's akin to taking a Ferrari and offering it at a new lower price similar to a Corvette's. Again, not a bad thing for those of us who have always wanted one, but couldn't afford it. Since this thread is wayy off topic now, are the KTMs using Rotax engines? If so, reliability may be an issue in the long run after all. Hopefully, they'll use an in-house engine. Aprilias have used Rotax engines and have been known to blow up, crack heads, eat head gaskets, and burn valves. | ||
| Midknyte |
Buell should be emulating Ducati in some ways so we should be paying more to wait longer for parts and service at even fewer dealerships than we are now??? | ||
| Rocketman |
Love that mass centralized muffler . . Steve Parish gave an interesting insight into mass centralization when showing last weekends Moto GP viewers around a few of the race bikes. Some racers are reporting grip / steering problems under hard braking into corners due to mass centralization. It is necessary for a bike to shift weight onto the front end when braking into a corner to achieve maximum grip, which in turn the rider can feel. Mass centralization has made for more balance towards middle, creating less weight over the front under braking and steering. Thus some riders are experiencing less grip and struggling for feel. Interesting. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Ya know, you got my wheels turning, Rocket. The 800cc YZF-M1 motorcycles have a big mass of metal that Yamaha can move about in the frame for redistributing weight for each rider. This was a side effect of the downsizing and weight requirements for MotoGP that Yamaha used to their advantage. What do you think the odds are that some time in the future that mass will be controlled by a computer to dynamically change the bike's balance for braking, acceleration and cornering? | ||
| Macbuell |
Here's my thoughts on this subject. Buell spent a ton of time, energy, and money developing an air-cooled v-twin race bike that produces about 150HP at the wheel. Why would they do that if they were not going to bring those developments, technologies and lessons learned to a production bike? Secondly, I'm no engineer, but if you can build a race bike with 150HP, why can't you detune it a little to make it more reliable for the street and less expensive and still have a bike that produces 120 to 130 HP at the rear wheel? If Buell could build a bike based on the current XB platform with 120 to 130 RWHP and the same broad usable torque curve, people would line up to buy that bike and I'd be right at the front of the line. | ||
| Spike |
Here's the thing though- some people actually are asking for 160hp. It wasn't just someone "expressing that they preferred more power." It was someone expressing that they wanted the same power as a GSXR for the same price. Here's a quote from the original preference expresser, the same quote I used in my first "flame" to him:
Note the phrasing used; "perform just like everybody elses", "paid what I paid", "750 gixxer", "walk away from me on the freeway", "I paid 10 grand I want ten g's worth". Had this been merely the expression of a preference for more power, I surely would be a "doofas" for reading into it the way I did and a "dick" for responding the way I did. However, this was clearly an expression for Buell to build something with price and performance matching that of a GSXR while some how not building something that resembles a GSXR. My "flames" were stating that accomplishing such a feat has proven to be nearly impossible for every other manufacturer on the planet and that if GSXR performance at the GSXR price is desired it is easily attained at your local Suzuki dealer. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Spike, The GSXR 750 does not make nearly 160hp. It is their middleweight bike. It is a good comparrison because it makes decent midrange, is great on top, but is not a literbike with maximum horsepower. He was asking for MIDDLEWEIGHT horsepower, not literbike power. That is a huge difference. You are the one that brought it to the next level, that of maximum horsepower. | ||
| Tankhead |
There is a similar discussion going on at Sport-Touring.net. There is a poster there from WI who goes by the name Lurker 1. He has three posts. He describes a street bike, apillia v twin liquid cooled. Check it out under BUELL threads. http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topi c,3519.25.html (Message edited by tankhead on May 22, 2007) | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
ok im not any good at lurking so what the hell...why not continue the cluster...spatten is right about what i was trying to say...i can see where someone else could read something different into it....the thing was and isfor me i had just gotten off my best friends new bike i went with him to get it the night before from another friend of ours that happens to own a suzuki kawi ktm dealership in bremerton washington...i ride with his sons also ( wow dont ya think i catch a lot crap from those guys not buyin a bike from them) when i was in the market for new bike his dealership was the first one i went to but just couldnt find what i wanted nothing fit me right...almost got a z1000 almost...they tried like hell to get me on an 05' gixx 1000 ...i didnt want it....short story long...yesterday my buddie took his brand spankin new bike to work so we went out for lunch and rode...now this is a guy ive known for over 15 years...he has spent a lot of time on my buell a lot...he wanted one bad...but...the big question for him was..dude where are the nads on this thing...its a pretty typical reaction...hes had a lot of bikes the last one was a blackbird..could he ride it to its limits..no..but he can ride....he really digs the tourque of my bike but the bench racer in him and a lot of people i know is thats a damn badass lookin buell but it dont run as mean as it looks....nto a big deal 99 percent of any crap i get is good natured ribbing the same thing i do to my big ole cruiser friends...ya know ...how do u corner with them floorboards on ur 800 lb pig....what i was trying to say is he didnt pay all that much more for his gixxer than i paid for my bike..i dont want it to out perform anything like a jap liter bike i just think for 10 grand i shoulda gotten some nads with the package...i had an 03' R-1 it wa a great bike..honestly it scared the crap outta me a few times ..hell ive scared myself on the buell.... in the rain that sucker gets sideways like mad....the other point i was trying to make was buells big selling point of cornering is fairly true but that middleweight gsxr can corner like hell too...for someone like me that is prob never gonna push the buell to its outermost limits the gixxer handles just as well..good turn in, great exit tracking, damn fine bike....i just want a buell that puts a little more umph to the ground ...my new buell dosnt need to be watercooled cripes they can use strawberry jam to cool it for all i care ....i like the air cooled mean sounding motor....other bike makers seems to be able to put out comparable bikes with more hp....its my turn....so anyways i guess i can see where what i said might be misunderstood...sorry for calling u a doofas...and u can obviously read...sometimes my brain goes into overdrive while typing ..what made perfect sense in my head gets typed a little off base....i dont want a repli-racer if i wanted one id go buy one,,,i want a mean ass street fighter...thats all...i personaly hope buell dosent make a repli-racer thing...i want a hooligan bastard child that scares women and small children  ....in closing...sorry if i came across like a jerk spike we all have the right to our opinions...sorry blake didmt mean ta rile up the masses....court..i hope buell has something big in the wings the new breed of bikes is just around the corner and they all look good...its gonna be one hell of a next couple a years for bike buyers good luck to buell may they find their place and show the world that americans still know muscle, pure unadulterated raw power and style in a way no others do. | ||
| Spike |
The point wasn't specifically the 160hp, it was GSXR performance for a GSXR price. I only carried it to the logical extension of the level which was originally presented. Whether that be the 600, 750, or 1000, the answer still remains the same. You cannot have the performance of a GSXR, CBR, YZF, ZX, etc. for the price of a GSXR, CBR, YZF, ZX, etc. without building/buying a GSXR, CBR, YZF, ZX, etc. A new GSX-R750 has an MSRP of $10,199 and puts just a hair under 130hp to the rear wheel. No bike on the planet matches those numbers except another Japanese I4. The only twin on the market today that puts out more power is the 1098, which is nearly $5k more expensive. Next in line behind that is the RC51 which comes up 5-10hp short of the GSX-R and costs ~$1,800 more. Next in line is the much acclaimed KTM SuperDuke which is anywhere from 10-25hp short of the GSX-R750 and costs ~$3,800 more. My original statement still stands. You cannot have repli-racer performance at the repli-racer price without buying/building a repli-racer. | ||
| Jaimec |
Last time I looked, a Triumph Rocket III will out accelerate any I4 race replica off the line and in highway roll-on contests, and it doesn't look ANYTHING like a repli-racer (doesn't even have four cylinders either). | ||
| Freezerburn |
Back on track now - a new bike is being tested on the race track. It exists and is real. Are we going to see it in July is my question? I think we all want to see it in July ... with the exception of my wife. | ||
| Spike |
It may win off the line or in a top gear roll-on, but the GSX-R750 (600 too, for that matter) is still quicker through the 1/4 mile. Even if it were as quick as the GSX-R750, it's still ~$5k more expensive. The Rocket III also has an inherent design flaw that will always make it slower- the aesthetics of the engine will trigger the rider's gag reflex, which hampers the rider's reaction time, thus making the Rocket III slower off the line. If we could get a blind rider we could probably shave a few 10ths off the Rocket's time. **Edit: going to triumph.com will not show you Triumph motorcycles, and is probably NWS. Also, you may want to turn down your speakers. (Message edited by spike on May 22, 2007) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Spike, the 675 is a strong running niche bike for $8999. |
