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86bgn
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Something really stupid had to have happened....
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Stevel
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 05:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

George,
I agree with your assessment and have for several years. Unfortunately, EBR has not in the past had the same vision. This has been reflected in Court's threads and comments over the years. I do believe Court and EBR's visions have been pretty much in sync in the past. It also matches my personal experience with EBR. The question now is whether the recent experiences since 2009 has altered EBR's view of the future and a new business model will emerge or this is nothing more than a holding pattern.

In 2009 the stated EBR goal was to support amateur racing endeavors of Buell motorcycles through the sales of racing parts and pieces. History has proven that EBR's vision was always much more. History has also proven that manufacturing new motorcycles as a small concern is neither viable or sustainable.

There is a new opportunity now for EBR to correct their previous errors and launch a new business model that embraces the aftermarket space and offer these sorely needed parts, accessories and build kits. Unlike this space in 2009, EBR now owns the Helicon base engine, but this engine has not undergone the significant evolution it deserves. I suspect because of funding, as EBR has preserved the right of re-engineering to itself. That is a mistake. EBR should be offering engine parts and pieces with a price structure that enables the aftermarket to do the re-engineering that would allow the engine to be more usable in roles other than just a street racer as well as high performance applications. There are a lot of very smart people out there. Let them do the reengineering......it's free! EBR , in my opinion, should reconfigure themselves to be enablers and marketers. It would be both profitable and continue to enhance Erik's already formidable reputation.

(Message edited by steve-l on February 06, 2017)
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

According to a poster on Facebook who claims to have spoken with Erik, EBR will NOT be at the Chicago IMS this coming weekend.
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Twirlin
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've heard the same thing. Not going to stop me from going though, even though that is a big bummer.
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86bgn
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i am not trying to be critical, but why would anyone think EBR would be there? They are apparently done, no more motorcycles are going to be manufactured, at least in any kind of volume, they are selling off everything in March. The black lightning was really the whole point in the show. I have heard deposits are being returned to the customers that ordered one.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, Victory is still showing up at IMS's even though they're closing, apparently in the interest of selling the remaining motorcycles. I figured there was a chance EBR had already paid a non-refundable fee to enter the show and they might show up anyway for much the same reason.
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Twirlin
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

EBR is likely more limited by number of available employees to attend such an event, along with a much lower inventory to clear out. I was hopeful because I chose to be, until I heard it from the horse's mouth.
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Court
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It may be a kind gesture for owners, enthusiasts and anyone with general interest to drop the factory a note and offer to spend a day working the show as an "Enthusiast Ambassador" sharing the Buell story with those interested and greeting and thanking owners.
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86bgn
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hughlysses and Twirlin, i hear you, like i said i was not being critical, just wasn't thinking along that line.

The whole thing just bothers me.... One moment i want to get rid of my SX, and move on, then part of me wants to keep it and hope i will be able to still buy parts.

i guess as time goes on, and stuff breaks, i can go with plan:

A) do i need it, can i just take it off
B) Can I find a aftermarket replacement
c) Can I find a good used one
D) Can someone, or can i make the part.

I really thought they had it together this time
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I also thought things were going to keep improving. I'm trying to figure out what happened and getting nowhere.

However, Dan Hurda and Mike Kirkpatrick have both said that parts are going to be available. I don't know anybody who I think has more credibility. Some folks are as upright, but nobody is more so. Their word is good enough for me.

Why go through the exercise of making the Black Lightning? Obviously, it was never meant to go into production; they didn't even build one. And that yellow SX with the handguards and windscreen that was on display two years ago and got a lot of positive attention (on Badweb, at least). Yet, they never made any of the parts that were on the bike.

For that matter, why even be at the IMS at all? I doubt they went to the shows and built up a lot of positive reactions to the bikes just to pull the plug a few weeks later.

Obviously, there's a lot going on that I don't know, have no need to know and will never know, but it just isn't making any sense at all to me.

Then again, there are many things in Life that make no sense to me. (Like huge demonstrations by women protesting for rights they already have) I'm just sad that such a magnificent motorcycle won't be produced any more.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why go through the exercise of making the Black Lightning? Obviously, it was never meant to go into production; they didn't even build one.

Well, they built at least one, and I'd guess a few more than that. My guess is they were looking to get some minimum number of $500 deposits for the bikes to justify ordering the BL-specific suspension parts. When they didn't hit that minimum number, they dropped it, and maybe EBR motorcycles in general.

Hopefully the full story will eventually come out.

Crusty- if your heart is really set on that BL, you should call LAP; they may sell it to you cheap.
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I already tried. I'll just have to buy a Fire Sale SX and make my own.
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86bgn
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey crusty, if you can get a accurate, factory parts list of who manufactures the individual parts for the Black Lightning can you send me the list? I wanted to build a clone out of my SX but I want to use authentic parts for it
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 06:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The seat is from Corbin and the 1" lower foot pegs are from Knight Design. I think (but I don't know for sure) the sprockets and chain were from Vortex. I don't know about the bars. Those are the main differences. The shorter forks and shocks I'm not going to worry about. Everything else was cosmetic.

Since I'm going to be putting hard bags on it, I'm going to get rid of the secondary muffler. That means reprogramming the ECM. I'm pretty sure that IDS can either reprogram the stock unit, or else they'll sell me one that's programmed properly.

When I find out who made the Black Lightning's bars, I'll post here to let you know.
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86bgn
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have the ids ecm, secondary muffler delete, and a 44 tooth... it runs very nice, but I want the parts they used to lower it. Stock height, and a 44t = wheelies in the first 3 gears.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 06:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Erik's personal bike has taller bars; I believe the type was posted on Facebook. They did state that longer throttle cables and hoses are also required.
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1313
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


EVO Adventure Bars


Look like Pro Taper EVO Adventure to me...

HTH,
1313
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2017 - 07:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Those are the bars that are on Erik's personal bike. But I don't know it they're the same as what was on the Black Lightning. If they're not the same bars,I bet they're pretty close, though.

Now, all I need is the money to get everything. It'll happen.

The way some of these Fire Sale prices are, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. I was reading over on the EBR Forum about a dealer in Texas who sold two SXs for $7600/ each. That's a steal, for sure.
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Then again, there are many things in Life that make no sense to me. (Like huge demonstrations by women protesting for rights they already have)."

Both because there's a current administration intent on taking some of their rights away, and because people make stupid comments like this out of no where because they think women are treated equal to men and think that a forum that is 99.9% male is the place to complain about them. Let's keep the topic on motorcycles and save the bickering for the quick board.
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Crusty
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Touchy; aren't we?
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86bgn
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Man, crusty, thank god you said "make no sense to me", I cant imagine if you would have said, makes no sense at all lol
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86bgn
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Someone on EBR owners group posted these up:

https://spieglerusa.com/controls/handlebars-access ories-243/x-bar-handlebars/x-bar-handlebar-naked-b ike-bar-4490-17967.htm
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Hughlysses
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Has anyone talked to an EBR dealer since the press release? Hopefully they've been kept in the loop this time since it's not a receivership like last time. Of course, they could all be under NDA's and not able to say anything.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>they could all be under NDA's and not able to say anything.

That ain't happening . . .

Ever tried to get two motorcycles dealers to agree on anything? . . . much less stay quiet.

I always recall the "secret BLAST intro". They kept the secret until they got about 3 drinks in them down in Arizona and then . . .
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Twirlin
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've talked to my dealer. EBR will not be attending IMS Chicago. Production will be stopped. I don't know anything for sure beyond that.
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Mog
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steve, I take it you were referring to my comment about EBR establishing a new business model.

To that commentary you made, I would add that Bruce Belfer now has attached himself to CCW, both climbing out of the hole of a boutique MC Mfgr., Later to add larger engines and broaden their new USA production.

That is sobering news but for the fact that EBR is not in the current equation...... or is it? Fact is, I have no idea if there is silence for a link up later (CCW is going to struggle building in the USA). CCw may very well need the knowledge of EBR, although for now, production will continue in China.

If I look at a calendar of recent past events and throw in some crystal ball gazing, I might see some very positive and legal collusion going on.

Also CCW is not the only small bike upstart in the USA that is sourcing from Asia. There is a paradigm (used too often but what the hell) shift and EBR might just be very clammed up to protect its future (partners?).

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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One thing that just occurred to me. Erik, if he can come up with the funding, can buy EBR himself.

Remember that when EBR went into receivership, the company principals at the time it went into receivership (~51% Erik and ~49% Hero) were prohibited from bidding.

Now that the company is out of receivership (in fact, it's a complete new company), Erik is free to own it again, IF he can come up with the money.
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Mog
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Crowd fund it. With his race successes and good commentary on the CycleWorld and MO fronts there could be enough ground swell $ to get a decent start to just opening a competitive market segment to CCW and others.
To do so he would have to have some young marketing nut cases out of college along with some very savvy old farts. He would have to lay it all out for the investors and then execute faster than anyone else could competitively respond. EBR has proven he can do that very well too.

Any funders?
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Toxic
Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 10:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A gofundme is being contemplated on EBRforum...
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Which would be fine, if the crowdfunding can get past what everyone else gets stuck by... it takes a lot of money, and it won't make a lot of money. Banks aren't likely to offer much, especially at first, so the crowdfunding is going to have to be enough to actually fund the thing. Generally, the investment is just to get enough money to get enough equity that the banks are willing to lend. A leverage thing. We are past that here I suspect. At least for any kind of rational interest rates. So we would be the bank, not just the downpayment.

Crowdfunding could address the profit part of it, I know I'd happily buy some stock in my IRA knowing it won't appreciate as fast as other stocks, and maybe carries a little more risk.

But it takes a LOT of money.
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