G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » EBR & Buell in the News » Archive through April 15, 2016 » New owner of Erik Buell Racing says the firm could make a comeback » Archive through February 05, 2016 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cravacor
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not referring to the alleged assault.
And yes, what I am referencing is totally relevant to how someone would run a company as it speaks in detail about previous business dealings.
I am happy to wait and see what happens, looks like things are definitely moving in a positive direction now.
I never made any personal attacks against the Belforites. I said people should be ashamed for speaking in such a negative way about LAP. The ironic thing is LAP turned out to be the good guy in this situation and no one wants to come out and say it was poor game to have been ragging on them. Nowhere in this forum, until recently, when they proved their value, will you find comments gushing about the heroics of LAP or how they are good old Murikan businessmen trying to reinvigorate manufacturing.
BTW, this is an enthusiast forum, a big part of that is indeed speculating and talking from the sidelines. That's the whole point of it, FFS! People who admire and respect Belfor are welcome to do so, as well people who feel otherwise are welcome to voice their views.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Greg_e
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They were certainly defamed back in 2009 when we saw them piling cycles into a dumpster to be ground into recycling materials.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

While sad, I'm led to believe that those bikes were test mules, and could never be sold. They were well and truly scrap.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bob_thompson
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 04:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"They were certainly defamed back in 2009 when we saw them piling cycles into a dumpster to be ground into recycling materials."

"They" & "them" were, I believe, at the time HD and really nothing to do with EBR or the now EBR in receivership. Tell me I'm wrong.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LAP was hired by HD to liquidate Buell assets.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like Crav, he's up front with his opinion and I agree with a lot of what he says.

BB did NOTHING and people praised him.

And Crav is right, people were anti-LAP and here they are actually selling parts and possibly making a return with the bikes.
How come THEY are 'nominated for Buelligan of the decade' or whatever someone said of BB?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

BB did NOTHING and people praised him.




That is not what I saw. BB bought the company, and invested his time and money to start putting the pieces back together, then the courts said "lol not really yours yet 'cause Hero". Then ultimately the court awarded the company to LAP.

I'm still mostly anti-LAP. From what I see they are trying to make a quick buck. Yea things are starting to look up, but I wonder what things will look like if nobody bites and buys the company in 3-6 months. Will they just give up, say "oh well we tried" then scrap everything? I really do hope I'm wrong for all our sakes. Maybe BB has been in contact with LAP and is working out something with them for the long term, who knows.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ljm
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I talked to him, seemed like a good guy with his heart in the right place and who spent a considerable amount of money to try to make it happen. He has also been courteous to LAP when they won the auction.

I am supportive of whoever wants to and tries to make this work. If they work together, great. If separately, so be it.But I am not in a position to criticize them.

You cranky b@st@rds feel free to $hIt in your own messkit. Stay away from mine.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"BB bought the company, and invested his time and money to start putting the pieces back together, then the courts said "lol not really yours yet 'cause Hero". Then ultimately the court awarded the company to LAP. "

lol
ok

Why is it that he says he didnt get it cause of Hero, but other sources mention the financing falling through?
Also, he never owned the company. If he did then it wouldnt have went to the 2nd auction, right?

And then there was another auction, one which BB claims he was outbid at the last bit...again, all records/sources say only one bid was placed.

And if he tied with LAP in the final auction and then wanted to let the courts decide the decision...yeah, great strategy. Why not just chip in a little more money and 'never quit'

I shouldnt say this stuff, I dont want to get kicked in the face...


LJM - as for pooping in our own messkit - how would saying that we dont believe in/trust BB being messing in our messkit?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Why is it that he says he didnt get it cause of Hero, but other sources mention the financing falling through?
Also, he never owned the company. If he did then it wouldnt have went to the 2nd auction, right?




You are confusing the two things. He thought he owned the company, then he found out after that because of Hero's claims, he did not.


quote:

And then there was another auction, one which BB claims he was outbid at the last bit...again, all records/sources say only one bid was placed.

And if he tied with LAP in the final auction and then wanted to let the courts decide the decision...yeah, great strategy. Why not just chip in a little more money and 'never quit'




All that I never understood either, but I'm likely missing part of the story.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 08:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And Im sure we're all missing part of the story.
But with what we know from various sources is he says one thing and many people/reports said a different story.

And Im sorry, but him thinking he owned the company and then not because of Hero claims is not what was reported by multiple people, those sources always said funds were the issue.

By the way, as far as me confusing things: he definitely said that he had acquired the company and had it for weeks (8?). Im sorry, but Id think you'd need to make sure you owned something before you, reportedly, started dumping money into it like that.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think . . . perhaps . . . some people think they know perhaps more than they may actually know.

I know a good deal about Mr. Belfer. None of it, as I've proffered before, is germane here. He's guilty of nothing but perhaps having been filled with enthusiasm, perhaps being the victim of a Wisconsin Court system that rivals the Keystone Cops and maybe shooting his mouth off.

When you are in a deal like that . . . regardless of the moaning "talk to us" cries of the masses . . . there are few things you can say that ever advance your cause.

But . . . that is all history . . . a mere paragraph in the next book. Buell history is, once again, busy being written and I, for one, am going to get my front row seat and not get drug into the skirmish beneath the bleachers.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

46champ
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Court are you getting all this down in the correct chronological order for at least 1 chapter in the next book.

I suppose the receivership filing must have caused a rewrite of the last chapter or maybe a stopping of the presses.

You need to get this book out soon the twists and turns have already made the subject matter thicker than a picture book like the 25 years of Buell could hold and explain.

If you and Dave wait 5 more years you will be writing War and Peace.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It was pretty clear that the original sale fell through because the necessary financing Belfer arranged was based upon a specific description of an asset. Once that description of the asset turned out to be grossly incorrect, then the original financing is no longer available. And replacement financing isn't going to be sorted until the description of the asset can be accurate, which it couldn't until we got those Hero idiots who were peeing everywhere out of the damn swimming pool.

So up to that point, nothing Mr. Belfer could have done (short of having enough cash on hand to buy and operate a Motorcycle company for 5 years, which would be a LOT of cash sitting idle) would have resulted in him being able to buy EBR. Others were taking actions that basically made it impossible.

Then, you reboot with a new description of a new asset, and the process of arranging the right acquisition and operation loans starts all over again.

Things get a little fuzzier from there. LAP bid high, but is a liquidation company. Belfer equaled their bid, but included at least a verbal commitment to try and maintain the company as an operating entity, which was one of the stated objectives of the receiver.

The receiver and courts then "picked a winner", and they picked LAP, for reasons I haven't seen articulated.

Sounds to me like Belfer did everything he said he did when he said he did it, made a shrewd bet with the hope he could avoid getting into a bidding war with a liquidation company, but he lost the bet. It was still (IMHO) a good bet.

No reason to attack Belfer or LAP, or anyone that supports either of them. It was an entity at auction, any of us could have bid and tried to buy it. Casting aspersions at all the people trying to save the company is just stupid. If you didn't arrange financing and make your own offer to save the company, you can talk all the big talk you want, it's a free country. Your opinion may even be right.

But people who did nothing criticizing people who tried something will generally be judged accordingly. And correctly.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks like the EBR website was updated (maybe it has been for a while and I just noticed).

The bike on the page has a wet tire, I bet that was from that Indy event.

(I wonder if we will ever hear the backstory from that whole thing? It was... odd... the way it was done and played out. There must be more to the story.)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Noone1569
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As an Indy native, I tried everything I could to get into that event. I even went down to the track, on my EBR.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevel
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think any critizism is out of order at this point. We do not know the whole story and until we do, nothing is certain. That is also valid for praise. I have made my parts order and emailed it to Marrissa at LAP, whoever she is. It has been a week and I've had no reply yet. Let's hope this all works well, but let's reserve our opinions until reality is known.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Noone... You should have pulled a "Court". Grab a friend with a video camera, and just made a loud and dramatic entrance right through the front door with "cameras running" looking hurried and like you belong and know exactly where you are going. You probably could have walked right in.

It's amazing the places you can go when you are nice, polite, respectful, and able to act a little oblivious or distracted and ready and willing to ask forgiveness. Oh the places you'll go.


pressbox
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

(and never in the history of the world, was a boy told "DO NOT DROP THAT" more times in a 30 second window than that day... The girl I could trust. : ) )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ljm
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

BTW, I already have my the parts I ordered.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

^
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buelliedan
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

so much speculation and drama right now. At this point until I hear that a buyer has stepped up, wrote the check and is ready to start making 2016s that is all it is IMO.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That may have already occurred . . . the commitment for 2016's to start rolling off the line in mid-March suggests someone has been on board for sometime. Typically, it's at least a year to get the simplest of model changes approved, EPA testing done, Acoustic testing done and the processing of the various certifications to manufacture. That, in the interest of illustration, ignores the 14-16 week lead times for most the parts.

It suggests to me . . . AND I HAVE NO FACTS TO SUPPORT THIS . . . . that one of two things has occurred.

1) Someone has stepped up, out of view of the public, and is doing great things.

or

2) Someone with little of no knowledge of the industry has foolishly shot their mouth off.

I'm sticking with #1. Buell can not survive another series of missed commitments after folks have been waiting for 4 years for the AX, waited a year for a service manual, still waiting on parts and so forth.

There also remains a huge, in terms of time and $$ resources, effort to put in place the marketing, dealer network and customer service. EBR can not survive another go round of that "left overs from Piaggio who know nothing about Buell" mistakes.

Bottom line . . this is one of the times that Engineering . . . which EBR has proven it can do . . . is going to take a back seat to the logistics of setting up and running the company.

None of these components was ever in place, or at least never gained traction, at EBR . . and they are essential, like keeping promises, for the success of whatever evolves out of this.

Smart people are involved . . . .I'm excited to see what happens. I've got that "mid-March" marked on my calendar to get to a dealer.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The EBR webpage has been updated:

https://www.erikbuellracing.com/

This apparently showed up yesterday, then the page went off-line for at least several hours, but now it appears to be working again.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wolfridgerider
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It was a rain soaked ride back to Ohio on the Uly that day. Fitting for the mood we were in.
Sure I hope I can make a return trip on my new AX in the NEAR future.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Midknyte
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 03:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is a wonderful sight to see right now




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Davegess
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

all this down in the correct chronological order

OK, if you expect the book to be any more factual than the last one you are naive; ) We are telling stories, fact may or may not be included as long as the story is accurate; )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

"Reason is the natural organ of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning."




C.S. Lewis
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buelliedan
Posted on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I actually spoke with the person handling the EBR assets for LAP on Wed. He told me in no uncertain terms that at this point there is no current buyer lined up and LAP IS NOT going to be making motorcycles. They are actively looking for a buyer who will do the production.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They appear INCREDIBLY optimistic.

I'm taking that as a good sign.

I can't imagine going in there with 80 good folks and $10M and being able to build bikes by mid-March. Based on assurances that the Melvin family know the business and what they are doing .... I'm sure they've got something huge working.

This is all very cool.
« Previous Next »

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration