| Author | Message | ||
     Xb1125r |
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/can-cars-run-on-gas -made-out-of-thin-air-km3tdmNqQ5G1VONKack8_A.html | ||
| 46champ |
Wonder how much electricity it takes to make hydrogen out of water. Probably more energy than you get from burning the hydrogen. | ||
| Xb1125r |
that is what people use to say about Tesla | ||
| Panhead_dan |
46champ, a couple of amps. it depends on the quantity. | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
Hydrogen has been the wave of the future....since the 80's. It does indeed take more energy to refine the hydrogen (natural gas, electricity etc.) than is produced. That's why hydrogen cars are being bypassed for hybrid/direct electric. Hydrogen is a fantastic fuel source, it's just too expensive to produce. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hydrogen would be a great battery if you could figure out how to efficiently compress and store it as a liquid. Take a little saltwater, pump in electricity in a separate anode and cathode, and you get oxygen bubbling off the anode and hydrogen bubbling off the cathode. Recombine the oxygen and hydrogen to get almost all that energy back, or use the pure oxygen for something more useful and just burn the hydrogen (which gives it oxygen from the air) to get power out. The "exhaust" is water (hydrogen di oxide). It's just really hard to compress to a liquid and store efficiently and without making a bomb.  I've always wanted to build one of these systems. We have a toy model rocket in the basement that uses something like this (runs on D batteries, pops a rocket 25 feet in the air). | ||
| Sir_wadsalot |
There's a member of sportbikez called "Tech", he's been a motorcycle mechanic and general mad genious all his life, and I believe he built one of those systems. Said it was a PITA but it worked. He was trying to figger out how to run a weedeater or a Miata or something with it.... | ||
| Rodrob |
The way you store hydrogen efficiently as a liquid is simple. You add carbon atoms under heat and pressure, which tightly bind the hydrogen in long chain molecules making it a liquid! There, problem solved!  | ||
| Mnscrounger |
EGAD!! ROD, I think you might be on to something!! I had to read it twice before the chemistry made sense.  The only difficulty in your discovery is developing the distribution network to get this new product out to the masses. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Brilliant! Just include a sticker on the "hydrogen fuel bottle" for your new liquid that says "may require some disassembly before use"... | ||
| Mog |
HYDROGEN Storage. Easy.... Common and Low Cost.....2 Hydrogens per Nitrogen......... ammonia. Fairly fire resistant, comes in a liquid and can be (now patented) broken down into N and 2 H's to run fuel cells.... which create electricity and water vapor. This type fuel cell is an alkaline fuel cell and more efficient than the 'regular' fuel cells about which you read. The whole process and mechanism can be scaled for cars and motorcycles. There is probably no greater yield per storage volume than ammonia. Ammonia is made easily and used allover the world in both rich and poor countries. I will expound if there is interest.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh. Never thought of that. How do you make Ammonia? And what kind of economy is there around the fuel cells? On the down side, a fuel spill would smell like cat pee.  | ||
| Court |
I find any transportation powered by ground up cats appealing . . . | ||
| Rodrob |
Ammonia, Ammonia, Ammonia! Get off, get off, get off! But seriously, I'm interested. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Pretty cool. http://www.intechopen.com/books/hydrogen-energy-ch allenges-and-perspectives/ammonia-as-a-hydrogen-so urce-for-fuel-cells-a-review The problem I see is the temperature the fuel cells have to run at to be efficient... 550 deg C? That's pretty hot! Whats the new patented process you are referring too? Sounds like it has a lot of potential... | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL. I wasn't far off with my "this vehicle powered by cat pee" snark...
| ||
| Mog |
Reepicheep, et al, The AFC (alkaline fuel cell) runs near the more human temperatures of 100 degrees F. I will submit a brief on it, whilst each of us wait for Erik to get the dealer locations out. I am sure my brief will be of less importance but better than nothing..... I hope. I might get it pulled together tonight. Thankx | ||
| Mog |
No brief tonight, as I am seeking approval for release of two charts that may be considered sensitive. WOWEE ! ! what immense drama.  | ||
| Prior |
Interesting theory. It's not truly carbon neutral with the electricity inputs, and I I also wonder what energy is input to make the gas... Thermodynamics is still king. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool! Share what you can, but don't share what you can't, we are just curious. Working with attorneys is always good for some laughs. I don't know which is funnier, the crazy stuff they make you do, or the knowledge at the end of the day that they are probably making you do it for a damn good reason. All you can do is laugh. | ||
| Mog |
RA would prefer that I not send the actual charts out, although they have been previously released to a small group at a conference. Soooo, I will wait for the Spring of 2014 for his release. What I can say is that there is a very efficient battery that is electrically competitive with the Li batteries and at 1/4 the cost. Also that the unit for cracking ammonia to N and H2 is real and has most of its world patents and that the fuel cell that uses the H2 from the ammonia cracker works very well indeed. Yes..... legal sucks... however, in this case it is serving to protect my and others early investments.  |
