| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
>>>The government really doesn't have much effect in the day to day operations of any of the auto companies. Likely defines on how you define "much effect". He's firing and hiring folks and setting their pay. GM is screwed. I'm one of the many folks who . . as a result of the government taking control. . never consider a GM product. Barack Obama is telling them who to hire, fire . . he pushed them into the Fiat deal . . . he's been setting salaries and dictating who, union or management, makes certain decisions. They ever told the corporate executives HOW TO TRAVEL to Washington.
Obama •••••• the American auto industry and took out the city of Detroit as collateral damage. Too much control for me . . but others opinions will be different. We'll see how it pans out. | ||
| Doug_s |
court, i agree w/most of what you said except the fact that obama was the one that ****** the american auto industry - they did it themselves, long before obama showed up. if he hadn't "******" them, as you put it, two of the three would be no more. or, they woulda filed for bankruptcy, and it wouldn't be the taxpayers taking the hit. which would have been fine by me, fwiw... i, for one, take no pleasure in owning any part of gm or chrysler, regardless of whether or not the govt is doing a good job with them. doug s. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had a Saturn and now have a Saab. The Saab will be the last GM product I ever touch if I can help it, and I sure as heck won't buy a new one. I can get another Saab though, if they survice, as they are being jettisoned from DNC Motors. | ||
| Buell2001b |
you can't go wrong with Ford  kicking toyota ass | ||
| Court |
Interesting | ||
| Buell920 |
whats even more interesting is a outsiders view looking in. Bob Conway told me several years ago, "the storm looks terrible from the out side but on the inside it's just rain and wind". | ||
| Oddball |
Court, That's a lot of tiny reading. What's the cliff notes version?  | ||
| Buell920 |
sales are down, production is down, manufacturing is under consolidation, the world is coming to an end...... nothing new just a flux in the market and production. whats funny is some people think with ALL motorcycle manufacturers following the same over all loss's Buell somehow would have weathered differently. Business decisions SUCK ***, but they still need to be made by some one some where. | ||
| Doug_s |
if h-d is wanting to revive its sales w/a strong overseas presence, all the more reason it screwed up stopping buell production. h-d could have had killer overseas sales w/buell. doug s. ps - even today, it would take me about a nanosecond to choose a toyota over a gm product... | ||
| Blake |
Buell was prevented from weathering the storm. They weren't allowed to be sold. They were killed off and tossed in the dumpster like a prom baby. Very poor business. Very poor behavior. America can and will do better. | ||
| Ljm |
I think the real question is where is it going from here? The loss of the only American bike that is likely to appeal to anyone,well, younger than I am bodes very badly for the industry. I understand that the motor company needs to consolidate and survive. I've written to Wandell, gotten a nice response back but they remain convinced that this is the path. I love my bagger but the idea that my sons are going to buy one is absurd. And I am not ready to park the 1125 yet either. So, the question is how to keep the line alive given that is offers unique innovations, a great product, and is an island of American manufacturing? I've tried, but I just can't seem me on a Ninja. | ||
| Ithaca280 |
As a former GM manager, I can assure you Rick Wagoner should have been gone several years ago, what kills GM and always will is the nepotism in management and the union. It's always the same idiots that stay in charge and they still are. The union is a corrupt bunch of ignorant thugs. Management is no better because they allowed it. I will never buy any product built by the hands of a UAW worker! As for Buell, they killed a shining star in true American ingenuity and genius design, it all makes me a little ill.  (Message edited by ithaca280 on February 26, 2010) | ||
| Mark61 |
Where HD is going from here. http://www.harley-davidson.in/ | ||
| Dennis_c |
All JAP lovers listen up buy american. If the car is made here the profit still goes to JAPAN that does not help us any so don't bitch when you don't have a job. You can take your Toyota ,Saab, ect and put it where the sun don't shine. I don't know what made you buy a BUELL its not made in JAPAN | ||
| Court |
Kinda cool to see that Ford, for the first time in over 12 years, WAY outsold GM last month. Since the feds took over GM it's headed straight for the tank. Search" new camaro quality problems and you'll find websites devoted to the problems. Cutting corners and cutting deals with the feds is not the way to sell cars. Every penny of the labor to build a Buell stays in the United States and so does MOST the material. Be mindful that on the air cooled Buells, like mine, there are only a small percentage of foreign made parts. Just some facts to make your conversation more fun. This sometimes helps. Cost is one of 11 items evaluated by the purchasing folks at Buell. It was number 7 on the list in terms of importance. I hope this helps.  By the way . . .millions and millions was spent on the 3 year testing program of the XB platform. . . . . all, as the article says . . . to boys and girls in the United States. | ||
| Ithaca280 |
Dennis, your a fool to think that GM did not go over seas years ago, Mexico, Brazil, China, Argentina, Canada, India and Portugal just to name a few. Where in the hell do you think GM's money went? Are you that stupid to think New GM will be American? At least Japan, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda and Subaru all have companys here. They employ hard working Americans who care about their jobs and are non UAW thugs!!!. Just like Buell used to employ, employees who cared! (Message edited by ithaca280 on March 02, 2010) | ||
| Dennis_c |
I know that american car co. went over seas on some cars I would not buy one. I will not buy at walmart. Try to find some US made in walmart good luck. All thoes car co. did not hardly bring any jobs here they just moved them from Detroit to where ever. Just be a good AMERICAN and buy AMERICAN  And don't forget there profit still leaves the US from all thoes car co. you named. | ||
| Doug_s |
ok dennis - you won't buy a foreign car. you won't buy an american car. not much choice after that, eh?!? i won't buy a car from a company where its execs get paid 300 times the salaries of its regular workers. and, i won't buy a car from a company that puts short-term stock gains over long term quality. i don't care which part of the planet it comes from. it's where all of us live. and, until american companies concern themselves more with their workers like companies based in japan, europe, etc, then i am happy to awoid them. buy american? why? so they can screw us? doug s. | ||
| Oddball |
At least a foreign company employing a production line here is contributing some to your fellow citizens and national income. Ideally it would be all U.S. from owners to employees to product. Ain't nothing ideal. Support the little guys you come across making quality products you can use. Reward those who produce here with as much U.S. content as possible. Expect and demand quality from them however. It's the best we can do for the moment. It's going to be a long slow grow. Propping businesses, industries and institutions up with wasted money should never have happened. It's going to be up to all us little guys to fix things as usual. See a need you can fill, start your own business. Maybe you'll be the next rich genius because you saw opportunity where other's didn't. | ||
| Ithaca280 |
Doug and Oddball, well said! | ||
| Devil_dog |
Failure and Prosperity http://mises.org/daily/4156 | ||
| Dennis_c |
I will buy a american car. Not a american car made in Mexico. If iam a bad guy for beliving that way so be it. | ||
| Oddball |
No, nothing wrong with that. It does likely limit your choices further. Our companies build many things either north or south of the border. My truck was a canadian build. I thought part of the delay with the Camaro was to get it away from the union and the old line up there that built them before. Now it's back up there again. | ||
| Cvc |
You don't want the govt. running businesses (GM+ Chrysler) and you want quality products. "You" (American public) shop by price and expect a union employee to rob you of the products you want by insisting on a wage that allows a parent to stay home and raise kids and the other to only work 40 to 50 hours a week. Seems that the corporate greed that killed Buell and pays executives 300 times the wage of those damn greedy union thugs starts in all our homes. We should applaud those who try to buy american and keep their money close to home and who work union as the unions gave the world the "middle class" ask yourself where would you be without the changes the unions brought in the industrial revolution? | ||
| Court |
The "new" Camaro has quickly become one of the most recalled vehicles ever made. There was an entire area of the Camaro owners bulletin board devoted to all the problems but they took it down because so many media outlets were quoting the stats from owner polls. I think I'm one of the folks who would not, at ANY PRICE, touch a GM or Chrysler product after the government screwed the investors (paid them $0.29 on the dollar). GM showed their stuff by promptly loosing over $1,000,000,000 the 3rd quarter last year then claiming to have "paid back" the government loan . . well, yeah . . .with another government loan. About the same as paying your American Express with your Mastercard. GM is dying a slow death. Nice to see Ford making record profits and telling the feds to stick their charity bailout bucks in their collective asses. | ||
| Buell2001b |
this just shows that either the engineers at GM got a very bad education at engineering or the workforce at the plants don't care how they are putting this cars together. But i have to say i would but a GM and Chrysler before a Suicide Toyota | ||
| Froggy |
Yes, a whole 1,243 V8 Camaros have been recalled due to a potential problem with battery cables. On the other hand Buell recalled 1,579 of the 08 1125R for a potential problem with the 5th gear oil jet.
There is a section of badweb devoted to issues with the Ulysses. Also, if you are talking about the same link you keep showing, its a generic checklist of things to check on ANY new car, with only a small number of them being Camaro specific based on isolated single reports from Camaro owners on the web. One person got a car with a decal missing, so the whole production run is crap? I do recall a story of a Buell owner that bought a bike that had BUELL spelled wrong on the tank.
Slowly dieing while showing nothing but profits this year? | ||
| Court |
The Camaro has been a nightmare . . .  | ||
| Court |
It's true. GM did make a profit. They made a profit of $865,000,000.
My other concern . . . . aside from the illegal way in which the folks administering the federal bail out of GM in their bankruptcy blatantly ignored the laws . . .is that . . . GM just made a prefect of $865,000,000. The year before they lost $5,980,000,000. The need to make that $865,000,000 for the next 7 quarters JUST to make up the loss for last year. Can it happen? It might. GM can thank CHINA for a large portion of that profit and even GM is hesitant to predict a profit for the year. It's going to. They are on the government teet and even, like has just happened with the "paid off" loan . . the government will "loan" them profits if they have to. Too many people put their ass on the line and are indentured to the UAW . . . . they'll make this thing work no matte what it costs you and I. I dream of a day I can make stupid mistakes, act carelessly, ignore loan convents, generally screw everyone I do business with and my investors and them have someone come in and clean up my mess . . . pay y debts and "wipe the slate". It's the NEW American Way. | ||
| Froggy |
On that search, replace the word Camaro with any other make or model, hell even extend it outside of cars and put in Black & Decker Toaster, Nikon D90, or Fedex and you will still get tons of results.
Really hard to say. The economy appears to be starting to rebound a little, if things pick up and people buy more new cars, then anything could happen. |
