| Author | Message | ||
     Jbar |
Nick, you better check that out. I'm not sure, but I thought that the XBRR was built with the Ulysses frame (the tank holds 4.7 US gallons). | ||
| Tdiddy |
Ss and Uly use the same frame, no? | ||
| 1313 |
Ss and Uly use the same frame, no? Yes, the Ss and Uly use the same frame. However the XBRR frame is a Firebolt/(normal) Lightning frame with the outer portions of a Ss/Uly frame. 1313  | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Needless to note, two recent arrivals have made this thread rather pointless. Most importantly of course, is the 1125R, which has a motor that is very much better than the XBRR motor which has not proven to be very reliable and is really not at all suitable for the street. Considering the enormous difference in price, one could modify the 1125R in any number of ways, and make it faster, better handling, and more usable as a street machine than a modified XBRR. In my own case, I was able to find a used pair of Ohlins front forks for my XB12SR, so I now have a full Ohlins suspension, Ohlins steering damper, and a longer wheel base with chain drive, which are, to me at least, the most desirable features of the XBRR, along with the stock XB12 motor, that while down on power in comparison, is adequate for the use I give it, riding " The Pace" on the street. So I guess we can consider this thread closed for the moment, unless a whole bunch of cheap XBRR's appear, that need to converted for the road. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I think the challenge of taking a racing bike and making it street legal is a cool mountain to climb. Sure you can buy 146 ponies from Austria, but making the XBRR a street bike would be a cool project. Expensive, but a sure to be a one of a kind. I got to thinking about the VIN# hassles. If you have an XB (especially an R), just use your plate. How many cops are going to check the VIN to the plate? If the bike is badged as a Buell, how are they going to know? With all the modifications you can make to bikes and the similarities in the XBRR fairing to the 1125's (both look like hammer head sharks)not to mention that you'd be stripping off all the race decals, the catch pan, you'd add street tires, signals and lights....there's no way the Man would be wiser to you. | ||
| Jbar |
Better watch out. If you screw with the VIN # and/or don't tell your insurance co., guess what. No insurance and big hefty fine from the the state DMV for falsification of something!! The XBRRs do NOT use the Buell standard VIN prefix and the insurance co./DMVs may know that the bike is not street legal | ||
| Diablobrian |
don't mess with the VIN. Find a Uly,TT or SS frame & use that VIN for the registration and mount the RR parts to that frame. If your state requires inspection you'd have to have the regular XB motor installed for inspection so that the VIN could be verified. This will yield a bike with slightly different steering geometry, but its not a huge or even undesirable difference on a street bike where the pavement will tend to be less perfect than a closed race course. Of course I would never endorse doing something illegal, and I'm just commenting on what I would do if I had to in a situation that required that I get an RR on the road and past inspection. (Message edited by diablobrian on October 14, 2007) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I never thought about the insurance in case of an accident. Good point. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Messing with VIN #s = FELONY... As Diablio mentioned, get a Uly or SS frame and go from there... | ||
| Baggermike |
I have a ulysses and would love to put the xbrr motor in the ulysses, the frame should be the same as they share the same fuel capacity. I am good at working on bikes, and would keep the stock engine and mount it in a custom bike that I would build, then when it time to pass inspection, you switch motors, then after passing inspection, switch motors back. Does this sound crazy? I would make it a naked bike with six inches of aftermarket suspension travel, custom built exhaust for more ground clearence for jumping what ever get in my way, and with the other custom modifications that I would do to the bike, I would have a bike that would not look like any other bike on the market. To make the motor behave with more street manners you can lower the compression but if it has a crank position sensor like the 08 buells you would be able to modifie the S&S smart ingnition module for the crank position sensor for the twin cams carb bikes, which I would put a carb on the xbrr, this module learns to work with the motor and any upgrades that you make, it would be ideal ignition module with a bike like this. there are a couple of ways like double gaskets to lower compression and I would put in compression release buttons to start the motor with this much compression using a stock starter, then I would get a six speed gearbox and chain conversion kit, this way I would be able to change the gearing to suit what kind of riding I want to do, as it is when down shifting I feel like there should be one more lower gear, and on the trails trails that is needed. The 1125r can not do trail riding. I think I would have the perfect buell, one that could do anything I ask of it, ((are you listening Eric Buell)) I live just outside of Boston Mass and have dented rims on pot holes and I like to jump curbs, or go drag racing on friday night, then trail riding on saterday, then sport riding sunday, the perfect weekend the perfect bike, and if a jap bike comes up to me thinking he is going to waste me, he would be embarrassed as I dissapear in front of him, and lets not forget that classic harley sound, which the 1125r does not have. just a thought. Mike | ||
| Pwnzor |
cops in my 'hood go straight to the VIN; the license plate is only for identifying the rider to them. They check to see if my ID matches the computer based on the plate they ran before they pulled me over, then they go right up to the head tube and get the VIN. | ||
| Baggermike |
hey guy's I have been figuring out what would be the best option after finding out that the xbrr motor will not fit in the ulysses frame with out major mods? and the price of the motor if you could get one is like 18000.00, then there are the possible legal problems that can pop up. my 06 ulysses oil pump broke, and now the buell shop has had it for a month, and still looks like a couple of weeks away before I even see it? they told me first it was the oil pump, then they told me it was a clogged oil line, I told them I felt something break and that whatever broke was in the oil line and do dissect it and see what it was, but no, they had to waite for a oil line and then see that was not the problem, I hate dealing with the service departments. I am a bike only guy and bought the extended warranty so I would be covered for something like this happening, and I just found out that they only cover up to ten days, or 750.00, for a rental car, and now I owe 350.00 for the days that I did not know I was not covered for, I now got to fight the insurance co, or the dealership to get my money back, or the dealership can take that off the new bikes purchase price when I buy one. I do not trust the motor now and I want to get a new bike? so my 3 options are buy the 1125R and keep the ulysses as a second bike and slowly work on the suspension and body, and waite to I find a wiped out 08 bike and buy the motor, buy a motor kit, then put it in the ulysses, and by the time I would be ready for buying the motor, someone might have a six speed for the xb motors, I figure this would take a year or two to do, so my next option is trade the bike in towards the 1125R or 08 ulysses. my wallet says trade the bike in for the 1125R this is the cheapest way to get a street-track bike. 2 pay off the ulysses and buy the ll25R, and work on the suspension and body of the ulysses, I have been working with Wilbers suspension in Germany and if I take the lower fenders off I gain 3/4" to 1" of clearance, I can gain another 1/2" buy having 6" of travel front and rear, I also think I might be able to even go a little lower, and think 2" lower would be nice and then buy rearsets and modify anything that comes close to scraping in a corner, and the body kits that I have found except the firer bolts lights, and then wait till I can find a new wiped out ulysses or any 08 xb12 motor to build up and put in the ulysseses frame. I have seen kits on the market for 4 to 5 thousand for increasing the motor up to 90 cubic inches, 130 hp, 115 tq. 3 I can trade my bike in for a 08 ulysses buy a motor kit, chain swing arm, slipper clutch, and 8 piston caliper, plus lower the bike to, this would cost allot more than the 1125R, but is allot cheaper than trying to convert a xbrr into a street-track bike. the new 08 xb12 motor has the same oil pump as the xbrr, I wrote buell to see if the lower end is the same as the xbrr? I also asked about buying a 08 xb12 motor and buell does not sell there motors? can anyone give me some advice, I want to go to racing school and be able to do track days at tracks in the New England area, the roads are rough around were I live in Boston Mass and the ulysses is a very good bike that can be made great, so let me know what you think. Thanks. Mike | ||
| Jimidan |
I got to thinking about the VIN# hassles. If you have an XB (especially an R), just use your plate. How many cops are going to check the VIN to the plate? If the bike is badged as a Buell, how are they going to know? Well, if they do check it, and find that it is bogus, they will impound your bike and you can buy it back at a public auction. Do not do this...it isn't worth it. | ||
| Slaughter |
I've had cops check tags and BOTH VIN's in the motel parking lot. Just checking - I had parked it hours before. If you think cops aren't alert to stolen bike parts being bought on the black market, you're dreaming. We've been in a group pulled over and ALL VIN's were checked, all tags were run against those VIN's - all because one of the group had those *&#% loud pipes. | ||
| Anonymous |
Buell has XBRR engines in stock. Just give Henry a call. Just for reference, the XBRR frame is a standard XB-R frame with Ulysses side panels welded in for great fuel capacity, and with frame slider/fairing mounts welded to the side beams. The XBRR engine will fit into either an XB or a Uly frame, as long as you use the appropriate XBRR chassis and intake system pieces along with it. | ||
| Slaughter |
Henry will sell now without the buyer having a racing license? That's gonna open a can-o-worms though as long as the buyer is taking on all the liability through the dealer who he is buying through, I suppose it'd be hunky-dorey. This is just not an engine for the faint of heart. I would actively discourage a street rider from trying to de-tune an RR motor to use pump gas and then bitch about the DAYS spent on the dyno to tune it for ONE altitude. We'd be mis-leading a person by telling him that by just bolting the engine into an XB chassis, his problems are solved... they've only just started. Be handy if he owned a dyno on a trailer. | ||
| Jlnance |
If you just want an XBRRish engine, I suspect it would be simpler to start with a regular XB engine and "enhance" it. Pammy is getting close to 160 HP out of her X1, so they can certainly be make to make power. | ||
| Sarodude |
Steve- If someone were to want to undertake that challenge, I wonder if either the '08 ECU (is DirectLink working for the new ECU?) or perhaps a MegaSquirt or MicroSquirt might be in order. Drop compression, keep a lower rev limit (I guess same as the stock short stroke motor?) and spend a good deal of time on a load dyno. Plenty of guys have gotten pretty close with MegaSquirt just driving around and using datalogging. I'd still have more willys from the VIN situation... -Saro | ||
| Slaughter |
Saro - it IS do-able but the tuning of the RR motor is a constant thing with elevation changes and temperature/humidity differences. Maybe it'd be easier with the compression dropped back down to 10:1 from more than 13:1 (which requires the high octane fuel) De-tuning it so it doesn't need the 114 octane leaded fuel MIGHT make it a tad more manageable but if a guy is de-tuning it that far, I'd bet he could have just as much luck for less money by taking a new 08 XB9 motor from the CityX to get the new oil management system and then punching it out to 3 13/16 bore for the 1169cc motor and it'll spin FAST - unlike the XB12 motor. This is just my opinion, my threshold of fear is down to about 100HP. I know folks who "NEED" 150 at Starbucks. I agree about the VIN. I'd hate to put that kinda effort into a bike and then try to argue my way out of a fraud case in order to get my bike back from the court. (Message edited by slaughter on December 19, 2007) | ||
| Baggermike |
does anyone know if you can buy the 08 xb12 motor? I was told that buell does not sell there motors, but noticed they are selling the xbrr above but think that for a street bike going with the 08 xb motor and put the money that you save into the motor and suspension and you will get a very good street bike that can race to? after seeing the 08 xb motor I will not touch any other year they are so much better. Mike | ||
| Sarodude |
Steve- Back to the tuning thing.... What makes the RR motor so ambient sensitive? I'm talking outta my ass but I suspect it's just the nature of the engine management and not of the engine. That's why I was suggesting a streetbike ECU or a totally programmable one. Do you know what style system the RR runs? Maybe this is the question to ask: Does the shape of the fuel or VE curve move up / down the rev range with ambient changes? -Saro | ||
| Slaughter |
Baggermike, Buell DOES sell the XB street motor separately but I'm guessing it is painfully pricey as a "replacement." I'll ping Josh at Glendale Parts just for grins to see what suggested retail would be. You're right about the XB being a better choice for the street by the time you'd de-tune an RR to run pump premium... the "standard" motor would serve better. Saro - I'll get back to you on that... I'm late to work here (shhhh, they probably think I'm in another building instead of here at home) (Message edited by slaughter on December 20, 2007) | ||
| Baggermike |
I feel like I got taken for a ride by the dealership that sold me my 06 ulysses in june, I had asked him if they were coming out with any improvements for 08 and he said no, I also ask if they would sell me a 08 motor and was told no, my bike broke in october and took them till dec 7th to get it back to me, and it is leaking oil from the rear head. I tried to get a trade and did not give me a good price so they lost a customer, I ended up buying the 1125R, and giving my son the ulysses. I think I whill look for a used 08 ulysses next winter if I can afford it. I live just north of Boston Ma, and the roads are rough, and the ulysses is perfect for riding up curbs and over pot holes, whill use my sons ulysses when I got to go into the city. I also was told that the ulysses will out corner a sport bike buy the guy who worked for showa suspension, and the bike I really want is the 08 ulysses, with the performance kit that will increase displacement to 88" and lots of tq, and have custom rear shock and reworked front forks, eight piston caliper up front and two out back, and a slipper clutch, and maybe by then someone might just make a six speed trans by the time I am ready for it. I think this would be a expensive project, and is why I bought the 1125R, it was a tough decision between the two of them, my brain said 08 custom ulysses, but my wallet said 1125R, I hope it is as good as I have been told, I am waiting for delivery, been told it is in transit so should show up by this weekend but it is snowing right now so would not be able to ride it. can anyone tell me the best way to break in a engine this time of year, so many different views on breaking in a motor I am confused. I am going to race school in the spring, get my licence, and do track days, meanwhile I will be dreaming of that ulysses. Mike | ||
| Court |
Wow . . . .on behalf of badwebbers around the world I am pleased to present you with the 2007 trophy for the years longest sentence. The good news is you can do all those things you want, the 88" motor, the 8 pot caliper and so forth . . . it's just money. The 8 pot, I perhaps should share with you, will do nothing the 6 won't. I'm going to put one on too but I am well aware that I am doing it for LOOKS only . . . the limits of the tire are the constraints. The dealer told you that Buell was doing nothing new for 2008 and you believed him? I'm trying to think of one motorcycle or one car company that has ever gone one year without doing "something" new. Of course . . . I'm sitting here on pins and needles waiting for that 2009 "Blue Devil" being released in a couple weeks. . .  | ||
| Slaughter |
Saro, Between the original map for the RR running Rockett 114 octane (the map that came with the bike) - switching to VP C14 (Glendale's fuel) or the Sunoco that Bartels is running - all of them 114 Octane and each one requiring a different map and a few days on the dyno. The way the bike runs at almost sea level (Bartels) and 2500 feet (Willow) is dramatic. WHY it is? Dunno - but I do know we're all very picky about how they run. Last weekend, Dixon's motor almost wouldn't run getting out from the pits to the track. Not really a problem and that's an area of the map we'd been ignoring. At 6000+ rpm, it pulled OK - but it's still not tuned quite right. He's winning with it as it is but he's an EXCELLENT racer and can just "ride around" the bad spots. The ECU is open loop - the only updates are through the laptop - there's no oxygen sensor(s). You can change the "Global Fuel" value - in effect enriching or leaning the ENTIRE map by a fixed percentage and you can make subtle changes in the map itself (usually a combination of both) I have NO IDEA about any other module working for the RR since the closed loop functioning would be charting new territory. Closed loop is at best an approximation and in racing can actually cause other issues with the motor trying to update its map(s) | ||
| Jbar |
Putting my two cents in...the reason that the XBRR is open loop is that the leaded gasoline will fairly quickly destroy any oxygen sensor... I can state from experience that Steve Slaughter is correct...the XBRR engine is like a thoroughbred racehorse: VERY finicky. It doesn't idle well, and very sensitive to temperature, altitude, and gas type. The engine is designed to run WFO, which is problematic unless you're a VERY experienced (that means AMA or FAST club level) racer and don't let it EVER get under, say 5,000 RPM... | ||
| Blake |
Gentleman Jon, I think the XBRR engine is okay. The drivetrain (primary, clutch and such) had some difficulties. No? | ||
| Slaughter |
Blake - not to be negative - I'd just hate to see somebody try to put a RACE engine into a street chassis and even if LEGALLY registered, find out how much work it would take to FIRST get it de-tuned and then get it mapped (remember you have ignition AND fuel maps for both cylinders) It would be a cool project, but the RR motor is a no-compromises RACING motor and it'd just be a bear of a project even if it would just bolt right into a stock chassis overnight. I'd really STRONGLY try to discourage street riders from attempting to do it. Besides, it's all we need, another "Buell gone bad" because it can't "stay tuned" or is "finnicky" or requires too much attention... all the predictable complaints. That being said, don't get me wrong, I SURE DO understand wanting to do it!! | ||
| Blake |
No disagreement on that point at all from me. I was just questioning Jon's comment that the XBRR engine had proved unreliable.  | ||
| Slaughter |
HOkey dokey - thanks for the clarification Blake. |
