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Buellistic
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 06:38 pm: | 
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Race_pirate:
#48 |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 09:47 pm: |
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Well I for one,hope there is a filter down as I am thinking an RR based Bonneville bike would definitely be in my future. Already eyeballing downed XB's for sale.
Any idea what the upper HP limit on RR cases are--I realistically need upwards of 250 to get the speeds I want/need for 200 club entry(because of their"minimums".)And after that I hope to get close to the speeds the turbo Hayabusa boys are getting--need that aero bodywork from the RR.
I am tickling the 200hp mark as it is and case reliablity is in question. And now the new rulebook has made aftermarket cases illegal in the modified classes,they would move me into altered class.
And that new FI set-up looks to be what I need to really get some HP out of my turbo set-ups. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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Court sez:
">>>>Typical HD MoCo arrogance, or learned prognostication?
From Henry Duga? You must have been drinking.
:-)
My guess is that if he dismissed the question, without appearing to give it a heck of a lot of thought, that two things come into play.
First, Henry would have, nor want, anything to do with that element of the business.
Second, unless things have changed since I first met Henry at the races years ago, I'll bet he was fairly busy.
You will see a great deal of the XBRR filter to the street. Absent that the case for proceeding with the project never would have held up."
So I guess you are voting for "learned prognostication", huh?
We were just talking...and it wasn't like an interview or anything. Plus, it was after all the races on Sunday afternoon of the first CCS/American Sport BikeA race weekend...no drinking and a very relaxed atmosphere. Nate Kern (won 5 races on his BMW's) even came in to shake his hand telling him that he enjoyed the series.
Granted, this is NOT Henry's field of expertise, and perhaps it was unfair to even ask him...but I did want to probe his opinion. I thought that maybe he had a window into the inner workings of Buell marketing...doesn't he? I think he does a great job where he is (and I have told him so)...and he certainly has a right to his opinion. Maybe he is even right about it.
But, I remember a few years ago at Daytona a fellow we called Dawg and I were out in front of the Hal's pit area talking with Mr. Buell himself. We were looking at these full-fairing Buells with big displacement motors and essentially asked Mr. Buell the same question about marketing a race replica. He pretty much said the same thing as Henry...no way that there was a market for them. We stood around for a long while watching all of these other guys walk up and ask the same question. This was not a scientific poll and we were at a race track where more folks are interested in race bike replicas.
Hals took note and was (still is?) selling their version of full fairings, swingarms, etc., although I don't think they are getting rich off of them.
I know Buell is and has always been into building naked bikes, and maybe that is just now becoming the rage. Everybody that Erik Buell meet tries to give him advice, so I could even see where he would tune it out. I have noticed that XB buyers are MUCH less likely than us old guys to modify their bikes any more than the race muffler and ecm.
Maybe there isn't a market for an XBRR race replica, but a little market research wouldn't hurt. I tend to think that there is a market, but maybe that is just me. If I was any good at this stuff I would be rich. There sure are many different race replicas out there on the streets, so somebody is selling a lot of them.
jimidan
(Message edited by jimidan on March 29, 2006) |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Imonabuss sez:
"Summoned back by Sheryl Crow. Why didn't someone tell me she was a little wierd before I made the trip?!"
That is what I like about her!
jimidan |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Race Pirate sez:
"As much as it would be cool on the "Kick A$$" meter, I would guess that the MoCo would keep things as they are. Buell is producing a real world, reliable belt driven bike."
And there is nothing to prevent the race replica XBRR or XB1350R, or what ever you want to call the street version of this bike, from being a real world reliable belt-driven bike, is there? It would not be for those who want to race it, but rather for those who want to ride it on the street with occasional track days thrown in. For those that want to race, let them buy the $31,000 XBRR race bike...that is what it is for.
The question was, "So if the deafening call for a repli-racer occurs in the Harley Davidson forest where nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?"
jimidan |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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I think you hit the nail on the head when you point out that maybe the naked thing is just catching on. I know I like it  . The only thing those "race rep" folks talk about WRT the XB's is HP though. Most of them love the way it looks and the way it sounds. If you give it more HP, the only thing they'll really need to get over is the location of the rev limiter. Once they realize that they can ride a canyon road all day, keeping up with their HOsuk-Yamakaw 1K owning friends they'll see why it is the way it is...
I just think that a LOT of people are turned away by the fact that the bike has less than 100HP. It really doesn't bother me much... I can still chase people through the canyons just fine. Until you TRY to chase a 150HP bike through tight canyon on a superior handling bike with only 90HP... You don't know. If you don't know, you don't buy...
In any case... What I want and what makes it to the sales floor in Appleton are probably somewhat different. I think we'll see a 1350R with the engine cases, bore, stroke and all that of the Double R. It'll have different heads, valves, cams of course. Stuff that's more suited to the street. But I just hope that they'll go a route that makes it easier for us to build a higher revving fire breathing monster.
No... I don't NEED a fire breathing monster... so what. I want one. That's part of why it makes no difference to me how much power it makes sitting on the showroom floor. There are people out there that will happily "fix" it for a modest sum...
It DOES make a difference to a HUGE portion of the buying public though. I don't want to see Buells on every street corner. I DO want to see Buells at the Isle of Mann though. I wan't to see them dominate FX. I want to see the dominate that series Trojan is running that UlyR in. To do that they need very deep pockets. To get deep pockets they can either take money from HD (which puts them in a bind when HD gets there) or they sell a TON of bikes. I'll sacrifice a little of my selfish desire to be the only guy in my town who has an XB to see those things happen.
They need to and IMO will put a good deal of the double R parts in the R. It'll just be tuned down quite a bit. It may not be the '07 models either. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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Will the deafening call for a road going Double R make a sound at the moco?
Eventually. Once Erik is absolutely certain it won't break. We'll see the best they've got  . |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 01:31 pm: |
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I think both Henry AND Erik were right.
Don't be fooled. Erik has long longed for a full faired RR-1000 like model and it's long been nixed as "tough to market". I concur.
What would be EASY to market about about 249 of the parts, indiviudaly, in concert and as part as a "designed for street" bike evolved from what we are seeing at the race track.
To that end, I think everyone here is kinda on the right track. You won't see THE XBRR, but I'd sure look for some of the goodies soon.
Just my own $0.02.
Court |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 03:02 pm: |
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Wait a minute, are we now talking about Sheryl Crow naked or Court's idea of looking for naked goodies? I done got confused. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 03:03 pm: |
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Well that's the thing...
We aren't going to get a 150 HP FX machine w/ blinkers... Why? IMO... because it wouldn't survive 100K miles. I know I'm beating a horse (and I'm doing it because it aint dead yet) but I'm personally pretty sure we'll see the cases and a few other goodies this year.
Something that can be turned into an RR engine for about 1/2-2/3 what an RR engine costs. New heads, jugs, pistons, rods, crank, cams, ECM, exhaust... The same thing we're doing to the XB's now, but we'll be headed for 150HP instead of 140... |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:52 pm: |
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Really it wouldn't have to have 150 HP...so it could be made into a reliable street bike. I would think 115-120 would fit the bill for most squids. What wins on Sunday creates a deafening call on Monday.
Cheryl Crow naked...hmmmm. Let's hold that thought.
jimidan |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
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And... release... . |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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I have to agree with what Jimidan said a few posts ago.
I doubt that you're going to get more than a "gut level" reaction from Duga or Buell if you happen to see them and then proceed to tell them what you'd like to see on a streetbike.
I worked for Rutan almost a decade over two stints - and you can't believe all the people trying to tell him in person, mail, telephone, email - what he should be doing in his next airplane, engine, whatever. We took to posting some of the wackiest on our bulletin board in the lunchroom. If in person, his standard response was: "sounds like a good idea, why don't you do it?"
I'd bet Buell and Duga have their filters set so high that NO suggestion made in person is going to get more than a courteous "I don't think so."
I'm betting we see some RR "jewelry" available (if/when it can be proven to meet ALL DOT and ALL EPA regulations remember) - otherwise those bits and pieces will probably only go to racers. There's sort of an "honor code" that keeps those parts from ever making it onto streetbikes - and especially now with the new FEDERAL laws about non-DOT and non-EPA compliant hardware being ticketable by local law enforcement. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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Someone busted the Honor Code with Leno's mondo motored XB?R.
-Saro |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
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Saro - you got me there.
I kinda/sorta figured that because that was purpose-built for him by Hal's there may have been some forgiveness there. We'll probably never know the full story on that bike but it is fun to imagine having that for a streetbike (as long as you have a salaried employee doing all your maintenance)
I know that certain other places were trying to sell "race only" hardware to non-licensed racers and got cut off at the knees. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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What's this? Leno? XB?R? Huh? Did I just awake after a long sleep? What? |
Moboy516
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
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Jay Leno has a Hal's XBR, I think. Maybe that's what they were referring to. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 11:07 pm: |
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Leno had a hyper-custom FX-built bike put together for him by Hals. It arrived here at Glendale HD/Buell.
We had a chance to look it over before it was delivered. He also got a spare motor.
The bike was an exact duplicate of what Ciccotto was racing at the time - except the inclusion of the electrical system so it could start and be sorta-kinda street legal.
Had to have been a couple years ago now.
Leno can probably get stuff that most of us can't |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 12:54 am: |
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Funny that's mentioned. Was just talking to Terry at Hals about Leno's XBR on Thursday. It was a full on FX bike built between Buell "skunkworks" and HalsPA. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:23 am: |
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I find it sickening that these rich showbiz types are allowed privileges beyond that of the less well known amongst us.
My money's as good as anyone else's, and money is only money, no matter whose it is. That's my view anyhow.
Rocket |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 09:29 am: |
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Yabbut Rocket - how much good press have you brought to the Mother Company in the past 3 decades?
Don't start claiming that you're being oppressed - unless you're planning doing a re-staging of "Holy Grail"
"Help, help, I'm being oppressed! See the violence inherent in the system!" |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 09:44 am: |
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Hehehehe...kinda like Steven Segal having the world's most valuable collection of guitars while I suffer.
The redeeming part is that he always travels with one or two REALLY good guitars and plays them rather than just displays them. . . ala Leno and the bikes.
More power to Jay and Steven.
Court |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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In a sense, the thing with Jay's bike doesn't matter all that much anymore. The way I figure it, maybe there are 2 significant race only parts on that bike: I'd guess the 3.6" crank and the ECU.
The 3.6 crank - well - ya got me there. Is it really race only? But now that the stock ECUs have been hacked, that race only open loop only ECM seems like a helluva liability. I remember hearing that it was causing them folks some serious headaches. The bike sure did sound good, though.
Jay's a nice cat. The only thing somewhat annoying in this whole thing is that, if I remember correctly, there were people all the way from the very top down to the dealership level involved in this thing. Haven't talked to him about this bike since he first got it - but maybe there's some Scout's Honor thing about just locking that thing up in his Mondo Garage. Who knows.
Now, what'd be REALLY interesting is if he got one of the short stroke, 4+" bore motors.......
-Saro |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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Negativity sucks! 
Sean,
I can virtually guarantee you that if you provide the requisite funds to Hal's that they will joyfully prepare a race made streetable FX spec Buell for you too.
I like rish folks. They aren't usually so hostile and outraged at stuff. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 04:22 pm: |
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Rocket, Hal's would build you one two. Al ya gotta do is write them the check. Leno is jsut able to write more big checks than most of us. He says his wife is happy he buys all the vehicles, keeps him away from the skirts. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |
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Yabbut Rocket - how much good press have you brought to the Mother Company in the past 3 decades?
First off, let's deal with that. This thread tells that Jay Leno has a special Buell built for him some two years ago. First I heard of it and I've been here at least seven years. Nuff said.
Secondly, I admire Jay's contribution to motorcycling and his contact with the ordinary biker in doing so. So please don't call me oppressed or negative. I have no problem with the fella or many like him.
My comment was biased towards those that because of their celebrity status can get damn near anything they want from some companies, be it guitars or motorcycles, when someone as well heeled as ......... (not me), and of unquestionable wealth can not, even if they're a dedicated fan, simply because they're not a TV celebrity.
Sometimes money isn't enough. In the case of 'celebrity' being enough, I find that grossly gratuitous. More so when I see sometimes the celebrity in question isn't such a deserving recipient. You know, like a celebrity that's given a motorcycle but the celebrity can't even ride and has no intention of ever doing so.
That is what I meant.
Rocket |
Exupmonkey
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 08:11 pm: |
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Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 08:45 pm: |
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Let's see. I'm running a business and can get a choice of taking say $40 thousand from Leno to build a custom bike or $40 thousand from some guy.
It aint evil to decide to give the nod to Leno.
Ask Terry at Hals if he'd build one for you. Last time I was there, he said he could build a Ciccotto replica for a fixed price (before the RR came out).
Maybe he'd do it for you.
I think the problems come with somebody selling the parts which are supposed to be sold as "race only" and selling them over the counter. Probably less trouble to have them hand-build you a race replica for the street and if money were no object, I'd probably have other totally impractical toys to my name also. |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 09:21 pm: |
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Rocket, send a check for $40,000 to Hal's PA, and they'll build you one. That's exactly what happened with Leno. What's the beef? The guy has dough and he spends it on bikes and cars. Sounds cool to me, better than the jerks who spend their money on drugs. And I've heard from a lot of folks that he rides it to the Rock Store,etc., and talks very favorably about it. And he paid for it, so that's extra cool! |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 09:35 pm: |
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What the fcuk is the matter with you two?
Can't you read or something? Here it is again in big letters.........
I admire Jay's contribution to motorcycling and his contact with the ordinary biker in doing so. So please don't call me oppressed or negative. I have no problem with the fella or many like him.
My comment was biased towards those that because of their celebrity status can get damn near anything they want from some companies, be it guitars or motorcycles, when someone as well heeled as ......... (not me), and of unquestionable wealth can not, even if they're a dedicated fan, simply because they're not a TV celebrity.
Sometimes money isn't enough. In the case of 'celebrity' being enough, I find that grossly gratuitous. More so when I see sometimes the celebrity in question isn't such a deserving recipient. You know, like a celebrity that's given a motorcycle but the celebrity can't even ride and has no intention of ever doing so.
That is what I meant.
One more thing. For $40,000 why would I go to Hals, or anyone else's for that matter? I'd build my own thanks very much.
Rocket |
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