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Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 02:42 pm: | 
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Naaawwww SCR*W Daytona and SCR*W the AMA - Club racing is where it's at!
Hoping to see more of them next season |
Dbird29
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 03:03 pm: |
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"A win is a lot to hope for, but don't ask me not to dream or wish."
The Buell Haters© do not you dreaming or wishing because that would be fun.
Reading those sites makes it apparent they do not want any Buell fun.
It is just like the ZTL argument all over again.
I'm with Midknyte, don't ask me not to dream or wish! |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 03:09 pm: |
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To answer the question above:
My dream Buell engine would be a V-Twin 4-valver with liquid cooling and 125hp to the rear wheel. I'd like to see a shorter stroke engine reving to at least 10k.
I guess I want something with performance along the lines of Ducati, Rotax, and KTM without giving up a V-Twin made in America. A little more stroke than the imports, and a little less RPM, if you can get a bit more grunt off the bottom. |
Spike
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 04:02 pm: |
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quote:My dream Buell engine would be a V-Twin 4-valver with liquid cooling and 125hp to the rear wheel. I'd like to see a shorter stroke engine reving to at least 10k.
Now for the follow up questions . . .
What would this engine offer over the existing RC-51/999/RSV motors?
What would this engine race against?
How would it be better for the street?
Would this engine be easier to maintain? |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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Scott,
I agree with some of your characterizations wrt the benefits of liquid cooling as they apply to the current state of the art of motorcycle cooling systems.
I rarely equate motorcycles and automobiles. For me automobiles are almost purely utilitarian; motorcycles are the exact opposite.
So for those of us who look upon motorcycles more as works of recreational mechanical art it is very difficult to accept with enthusiasm a mongo big ugly heat exchanger sticking out in front of the engine. I for instance could not really enjoy owning the liquid cooled version of the Ducati Monster. No matter how wonderfully it might perform engine-wise, that goiter of a radiator on a naked bike is just too darn offensive to me. Again, that is just my own personal opinion.
Those with more utilitarian or purely HP/cc performance type preferences lie directly opposed on the other side of the street. It's great that the market offers so many choices to satisfy all our particular preferences. Buell by itself does not. And that really irritates some folks. Or others like you simply express their enthusiasm to see Buell respond to your preferences. I hope maybe someday they do. There are some repli-racers with liquid cooling that integrate the heat exchanger fairly well, cover it up and hide it really. I might could live with that. I'd rather just have a larger air-cooled engine though. One with hydraulic lifters and all the simplicity that allows me more riding time and less shop time. 
My view has always been that even for the current state of the art in motorcycle engine air-cooling - please note that Buell has significantly raised the state of that art with the XBs' dual speed ECM controlled ducted forced air-cooling system - the benefits of liquid cooling do not outweigh the ugliness and complexity of it. I'd rather have a larger displacement engine with a lower rev limit. But that's just personal preference.
I strongly disagree with placing arbitrary constraints on an engine design. I want a 125 RWHP Buell V-Twin engine for the street too, but I would never ever presume to dictate constraints like that it must be liquid cooled or rev to 10K rpm. I might dictate that I don't want it to have to rev to over 10K rpm though. I guess that's what you did too. More agreement? Ruh roh!
The XBRR in race trim reportedly is making 150 HP. It is air-cooled with a big race sized oil cooler. Imagine one in street trim/tune, with 120 rwhp, what is there to not like?
Can/will Buell ever pursue that? Blake hopes so. Wouldn't that satisfy you too?
I'd also shy away from giving up the wonderful low-end HP offered by the big Buell V-Twins. That is by far one of the most endearing qualities of the engine to me. |
Mikeyp
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 05:01 pm: |
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Actually Blake, your wrong..
41% of the voters who don't care, is in the lead... |
Buellishxx
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 06:43 pm: |
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There's an easy solution, though it will have to come next year. XBRR street bikes!
If you eliminate the things that people are complaining about the only thing left is to prove it on the track.
I still don't follow the oil cooler logic, though I guess that buell could counter with, stating that the I4's can not use a radiator, because that is Air cooling not liquid cooling.
In the long run I think that it should just be a horsepower limit. Say about 150hp. I4 against an air (oil) cooled V2. Each will have their own dilemmas in trying to make 200 miles.
Who knows maybe Buell could come up with a 4 valve air cooled 12,000 rpm V2! |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 08:36 pm: |
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Mikey! Bustin my balls as usual!
Hey! I can work with that!
Out of all respondents, only a mere 17%, a most insignificant pathetic paltry little clique of whiners voted against Buell's XBRR being legal for FX. The remaining 83% either didn't care or astutely indicated that the XBRR should be legal in FX.
![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
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Update on the poll.
Current poll results are...
quote: SouperPoll :: Oil-Cooled Buell: Minor Detail or End Game?
Is the fact that the Buell XBRR roadrace bike is not merely an air-cooled Twin but an air and oil-cooled twin mean the bike is clearly illegal for the Formula Extreme Class?
Yes. The rules state "air-cooled". The Buell web site says the bike is "air/oil cooled".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
965 votes (17.0%)
No. Lots of bikes, air and water cooled, have oil coolers. It's not relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1608 votes (28.3%)
Irrelevant, the AMA says it is legal, end of story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
755 votes (13.3%)
I really don't care. Isn't Phillip Island WSBK and MotoGP testing this weekend?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2359 votes (41.5%)
Vote total: 5687
If you haven't voted yet, please do so at http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=buell0301.
Looks like the pro-Buell votes are leading the way!
(Message edited by blake on March 03, 2006) |
Captpete
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:26 pm: |
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I ain't voting 'cause I fall into the last catagory. I don't care. It's a stupid poll.
All bikes are oil cooled. Don't believe it? Drain the oil out and see what happens. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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Grumpy old man. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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Not that I blame you. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 06:41 am: |
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I'm wid da Cap'n.
Rocket |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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Blake,
I really enjoyed that post.
I'd love to buy you a beer sometime to discuss more of the same. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 06:19 pm: |
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Thanks Steve. Surprised you didn't I. 
Come to Daytona! |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 02:30 am: |
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Current poll standings...
Keep voting! --> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=buell0301
(Message edited by blake on March 05, 2006) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
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So, 17% of the readers are absolute, complete idiots like Hagen. That's not too bad. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 12:14 am: |
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Kinda like politics, there's always a far left fringe that is unreachable. Friggin Communists! |
Hattori_hanzo
| | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 08:15 pm: |
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Stolen from I post I saw at advrider.
I was just reading in Cycle News that this bike is going to be protested, as it does not fall into the rules of the class, as some interpret them. They had to allow it to run Daytona before an official protest could be submitted. The AMA approved it without getting all the race board members blessings. Article said that the bikes in the class are supposed to be a motified street legal versions only. Buell got around this and the AMA approved because they are supposed to be taking a street legal engine, melting it down completely, recasting and creating a whole new race motor. Taking the word modifying to a whole new level...
This stuff is gettin' old. I truly hope that this whining goes away soon. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
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Cochise
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 11:10 pm: |
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Going back to the first post of this thread, who gives a flying Wallenda what these clowns say about the Buells, "Those who can't do, criticize" Everybody says Buells can't beat themselves, yet they're probably gonna be beaten. Maybe Buell won't win the three top spots, who cares, even if they get 10th, they still are better than what people thought. Boo-hoo, Buells are winning and I don't like it. I know, Buells are winning because these other bikes are laying down for them bullshit, these bikes are getting beat and can't handle it, they get beat then the other guys say, "You guys got beat by a Buell?" 'No, I let him win, no, my windscreen fogged up. BullBUTTER!!!! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 12:28 am: |
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I agree; it's all duck pucky! |
Bigsherm9r
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 08:26 am: |
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Yamaha is going to clean our clocks in FX. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 09:26 am: |
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It is gonna be a good race. It would be almost a miracle if Buell won. Honda has 4 full on factory entries and two almost factory entires. Yamaha has 2 full on factory bikes.
I would bet a fair bit of money that Miquels Honda alone is worth more than all 4 Buells put together. DiSalvo Yamaha may be the trickest bike this side of Moto
GP. My word he is turning Superbike times on a 600! That said I think we have a shot to do very well. It is a long race and good race managemetn can go a long way. Last I heard MacWilliams had his machine below 1:45 and was still finding time.
Go Buell |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 09:53 am: |
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DiSalvo would be fast on anything. He'd probably put an XL1200 on the front row. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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>>>.Yamaha is going to clean our clocks in FX.
Okay.
Let me share a secret with you though.
It was precious few years ago that a group of kids were scratching to get $3,000 together to keep a race dream alive. Laughed out of a local bank, they nonetheless kept going.
Folks went for "extended" periods getting paid when money was available. Things got sold, money got borrowed from the oddest places.
The frickin' dream and dreamers REFUSED to yield.
I've seen grown men cry. I've seen dreams shattered and stolen on the whims of rule making bodies and I've worked all night with folks driven by nothing but a dream.
Winning is great stuff. It's the heat from the flames, but it's not the only reason to build a camp fire.
I want to win. . . that's what drives us. But, I don't have to WIN to make this year's entire Daytona BUELL RACING experience a monumental milestone.
There are days I dream about Buell winning at Daytona, but not one day has passed that a group of us hasn't dreamt of Buell RETURNING to Daytona to RACE. To some of us this is HUGE.
A couple of us are going to share a quiet "we are here" moment on Friday evening.
If Yamaha wins, we'll be the first to congratulate the boys Erik Buell USED to ride with. Winning is great no matter who it is....we share that. But, somewhere, be it at the front, the middle, or the back of the pack for the first time ever is going to be a group of serious BUELL RACING MOTORCYCLES.
The interest is such that I'm going to be bringing Erik's wife and my wife to see this. They need to see it to tie together a bunch of loose ends and explain some erratic behaviour they've come to tolerate so kindly.
Court |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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Court,
I agree it is great that Buell is even in the Daytona 200 this year, even though there is no chance of winning. Every step forward is significant.
In an hour we will know how far down the list of 80 riders the Buells will be.
The biggest thing that I can hope for in this race is that all 4 bikes finish. I think that would be a real accomplishment.
Jim |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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>>>>even though there is no chance of winning.
Bold statement. You new to racing?
Racing, my friend, is the only thing more fickle than love. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 11:52 am: |
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<erratic behaviour they've come to tolerate so kindly. >
We wer never erractic it only looked that way from the outside
Well said Court. There are so many cool things about this weekend that I can hardly stand it. That Erik get back to racing in the 200 is cool. That he helps bring some international flavor to a race that used to be THE international racing is event is cool. That an American bike is running in this the biggest American race after how many years? How cool is that?
That a World GP champion is riding a Buell in the Daytona 200??? Tha is is past cool, so far of the scale I can hardly stand it.
I'll tell you one of those "remind me to tell you sometime" stories. When Erik was trying everything he could think of to keep the RW 750 project alive he approached a World GP champ who looked the bike over. He was basically told he was a fool and it would never work. To have a World GP champ now riding a bike has to fell pretty good.
Qualifing is tomorrow so all the talk will end and we will see how they do. Getting into the first 3 rows would be could. Any further back and you have to work pretty hard to pass people.
My hope is that they can out run all the other privateers and be within 2 seconds of the factory bikes in qualifing. I think DeSalvo and probably a couple of the Hondas might get under 1:42 (DeSalvo is already there) So if Mac Williams cna get to 1:43:5 I will be very happy. I don't think Crevier will be within a 1/2 a second of Jeremy. |
Smoky
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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Court,
Thank-you for adding the above.
Keep the faith. |
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