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Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 09:05 pm: | 
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All I have to say is that as a privateer, looking at my finances the past 2 years since I finished the mods on the XB, that $30K looks really cheap - AND it works out of the box. Mine took a full season to get dialled in (before wadding it up) - and probably cost me nearly $30K when you count it all up... and I still don't have nearly the bike.
Ahhhhh - the life of a privateer.
We'll see if I can get my A** on the track before much longer this year. Impatience is driving me nutz. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
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But, and I'm guessing here, when you realize the meaty, tricky bits on the RR will not make it to your XB, and in '07 when an RR road bike fails to materialize, maybe, just maybe, more of you will feel as I do now.
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm very happy with my new Ulysses. It wouldn't stand a chance against an I-4 in a roadrace; but it's as reliable as an anvil, is very easy to maintain and puts a big grin on my face when I ride it. I'm also betting that those "meaty,tricky bits" will appear if they improve the performance of the bike without compromising reliability. If they don't appear, it still won't bother me a bit. Buell is making the most enjoyable street motorcycles to ride that I've ever been on.
Tell me the truth; are you mad at Honda for blatantly lying in their TV ads about the Moto GP technology that's in the CBR1000? I don't see the tech anywhere. An I4 vs a V5. The bore and stroke are different, the valves are different, the crank, rods, bearing sizes, and cam profiles frames; hell even the wheel sizes are all different. Yet, Honda claims a direct relationship between the two bikes.
Maybe you'd rather get a little closer to home. How many of Miguel DuHamel's or Jake Zempke's bike parts are common to a showroom 600? How many are available to privateer racers?
And about Privateer racers; you seem to think that because a racer is sponsored by a Harley shop, he's not a privateer? Is a racer sponsored by Garvis Honda not a privateer? Isn't everyone who isn't signed by a major player a privateer?
When I first read your first post, I thought I was seeing sour grapes. Now, I'm beginning to think Bigdaddy is right; you're a troll. An articulate and verbose troll, but a troll none the less. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 09:42 pm: |
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Ford owners sure got screwed when the GT came out. Sure they said parts would be available, but can you get that motor in a SuperDuty? No.
What jerks
ok, ok double post from another thread, it fits better here.... |
Henrik
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 10:05 pm: |
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I think it’s unlikely that if you put your oil pump drive gear under your pillow, that the Buell Fairy will bring you an XBRR.
Now who's getting a bit testy.
It really doesn't matter how you phrase it. I still disagree with your basic idea - of disappointment with a company's chosen strategy just 'cause it doesn't match what you'd like. Tough - chew harder.
Henrik |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 10:49 pm: |
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Buell has a plan that works. From 1 bike a year and zero dollars to over 10000 bikes and profitable to boot. Of course we could take the Ducati model, broke 3 times in the last 25 years and barely alive now but hey they do win world championships.
Or perhaps you like the Triumph model, 200 plus million dollars later they don't make a race bike to compete with the big 4. Not that they don't make nice bikes, I like em' but they don't have a superbike.
Then there's Indian and Excelsior, maybe they will build a super bi... oh that right they went broke and took a lot of peoples money with them.
Bimota comes to mind, oh yeah they went broke too, a couple of time I think.
See I guess that proves it, Erik is a fool building a profitable company by picking niches and building cool bikes. He should stop that and slug it out with Honda. I am sure he could build a superbike winner and go broke in 3-4 years. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 11:53 pm: |
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Them grapes sure are sour! |
Jon
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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Davegess, that was simple and true. Thanks compadre. |
Timbo
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:21 am: |
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Yeah!
What Dave said.
Thanks again Erik!
Please, Keep up the good work guys. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 05:41 am: |
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Stormtrooper:
I disagree with your opinion; admire your ability to communicate same without getting sucked into the internet vortice of slander others to share yours.
The Buell XBRR and the Buell business model are elegant. If some of this seems a bit impassioned, please know that during the "1 bike zero dollars" days there were some huge emotional set backs. Some folks (and by the way they will ALL, complete with recently acquired spouses, be at Daytona) are more emotionally invested in this effort than you might understand.
Part, and unfortunately a big part, of success is overcoming a series of what seem like endless failures. Failure is one thing. To have it thrown in your face, be personally belittled and made a public mockery of is another. I don't know that I'd have the patience personally. Many of us, from the days of "the barn" have a keen focused leader to thank.
Me? . . personally? I am still pissed at some folks who, while they were ripping off the 2nd $60,000,000 from investors, made some really nasty comments to Erik Buell at Daytona. He was sick as a dog, fatigued and could barely keep his eyes open as I sat and talked to him one night. He didn't say a word about it, but I knew, just from how the words stung me, how he must have felt in side. This is akin to your son telling you that you are a crummy parent.
We're back.
I like the slogan, but I like what it means more. Over the years Buell has provided me with the most interesting and fun motorcycles to ride. The current model is capable of speeds approaching 3X the legal limit, had been dubbed "the best handling bike ever" and comes to me with about 3,000 close friends who I've come to love....attached to the deal. I need the XBRR like a kick in the shins, for street riding. I want it on the race track earning respect for Buell. . . . and yes, I hope it rubs a few folks face in some very unkind words.
Highlights? Well, I suppose it's just me. . . but I still hold dear Erik's retort to a particularly nasty comment in the lobby of the Adam's Mark. . "I did it the old fashioned way, I built a motorcycle FIRST".
Bottom line is that a good deal of the XBRR technology will significantly impact future Buells. Will it show up, verbatim, on a street bike? Perhaps not, sometimes what R&D does is tell you how to improve an existing piece rather than simply replace with race parts. Fitness for purpose, how well the thing does what it is intended to do, is the parameter. . . not the ability to reach 200MPH on 2nd Avenue. My present Buells excel at accel.
The only other comment I'd add is that I don't understand (I'm trying to avoid interpreting it as a snide remark) your comment about HD and privateers. To me, HD pretty much invented the dealer sponsored, as opposed to factory sponsored, privateer racer.
I cut my teeth and was introduced to Buell on the Grand National race circuit. In fact, I ran across my first Buell on Arden, near Cal State Expo, while at the Sacramento Mile. The racers who always fascinated me where not the guys in the $250,000 trailers but the guy in the lawn chair with the file and razor blade dressing the tire he'd saved for 3 weeks to buy.
Old timers have heard me say this before, but I hold dearly to a copy of an old (yes, I saved it from like 1969) Wall Street Journal op-ed by Louis Rukeyser entitled "SUCCESS OFFENDS BUERECRATS". The article talks about how many people look, with disdain, on the successful simply because they have taken on a seemingly insurmountable challenge and overcome it. Try going to the bank and handing the kid at the window a paycheck showing $19,000 earnings for the week....all of a sudden you'd think you were a robber baron.
I'm still sorting out how many folks seriously think Buell is off base as opposed to the folks who, not long ago, were in the "just wait till he goes on his ass" mode that are trying to keep from having to eat crow.
Anyway. . . when we were last in Daytona, Erik and I were told the next time we returned to "pack a lunch". I've made certain he is properly equipped.
Court |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 07:01 am: |
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Court, Dave: nice.
It's amazing to me that even the XBRR can cause so much meanness. Its clear to me what a culmination of dreams & hard work those 50 bikes represent, and I'm very happy to see it. The AMA created that "loophole" to allow Buell to fill it, and they have (admirably!). It seems that success doesn't only offend bureaucrats.
In keeping with the secretive nature of Buell model introductions, I expect that all mention of this tech making it to new models will continue to be evaded and/or denied. Surely though, the drawings & modeling weren't done for only 50 bikes.
Personally, I believe the "150+" hp claims are bogus. Considering the view from the outside of the motor & the state of NASCAR tech, I expect that the more hardcore versions of that motor are maybe 10-20hp more than that. I HOPE they do well at Daytona, and make a successful season-long run to an FX championship. |
Jens
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 07:21 am: |
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Greg, good to hear from you -your few beers still standing cold....
Our problem is this year just time. We are testing the complete next week in Cartagena / Spain new developed products and we have a big Race- and Fairprogramm for 2006 in front of us.
But we know what we are working for...
All the best,
Jens |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 08:34 am: |
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Jens,
Great to hear from you too. Vergessen Sie kaltes Bier? Ich? Ich glaube nicht -- unglaublich!
We have the reunion in Zendscheid/Densborn scheduled for this summer, but it's really questionable at this time if we'll be able to go. My mom has been hospitalized for months after a terrible car crash and we just don't know if we'll be able to make it this year.
Soon, very soon, I miss the Eifel.
G2 |
Elvis
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 08:51 am: |
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Screwed? Screwed?!?!
Let's put this in perspective.
20 years ago if you wanted to buy a motorcycle, you could have anything you wanted . . . as long as it was made by one of the big 4 Japanese mfrs.
Sure, you could buy a BMW or Ducati if you had a lot of money and some good wrenching skills. You could even buy a Harley if you had the same money and wrenching skills . . . and didn't mind giving up the things that most people on this board actually buy a motorcycle for.
Now, not only can you now buy an American made bike that is among the best, if not the best canyon carvers in the World, but it's reliable and you can get it for a reasonable price.
Not only that, but that little American motorcycle manufacturer is about to go up against the Goliaths who have absolutely dominated racing for over 30 years, and for the first time in over 30 years, a production based American motorcycle is going to make a serious run. Were we "screwed" when the U.S. Hockey team went up against the Soviet Union in Lake Placid?
Nobody has ever done this before. NOBODY. There have been some start-ups who have made some pretty pictures and prototypes (not going to name any names). Every time they do that, the press falls all over them, and fools part with their money, but I have yet to see any of those bikes doing anything more than ceremonial laps.
This is what racing is about. This is what motorcycles are about. This is what the United States of America is about.
This may be getting screwed, but if so, it's getting screwed by Naomi Watts and Scarlett Johansen a the same time.
I can live with getting this kind of screwed. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:38 am: |
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"This is what the United States of America is about."
I'm proud of that statement and what Erik has unleashed for US. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:58 am: |
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Elvis, I second that! |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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This is a good discussion. If we weren't passionate about this marque, we wouldn't be here discussing it, we'd be off riding whatever else pleased us.
Stormtrooper - thanks for participating. I may disagree with some of what you say, but defend your right to say it, and I think I know what you are feeling in wanting better products from Harley and Buell.
In the end, the XBRR will improve the breed, whether it happens in July or gradually over time, I believe it will happen.
Thomas Edison said it best -
"Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is often a step forward.... "
"Genius is one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration. Accordingly, a 'genius' is often merely a talented person who has done all of his or her homework."
"Barring serious accidents, if you are not preoccupied with worry and you work hard, you can look forward to a reasonably lengthy existence.... Its not the hard work that kills, its the worrying that kills."
Persevere Erik!
Jim |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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I want an "RR" for the street... or, more correctly, I want a pushrod V2 in a Buell frame with somewhat comparable power. I don't need it, and I won't feel screwed if I don't get it (because I can build it anyway). I want it though... With a passion.
Thank you for everything you've done so far Erik and Co.
I have a particularly tasty set of twisty roads at the end of my driveway here in Northern AZ (as I recall, Court said that he and maybe Erik had been on them and recalled the ice-cream in Jerome). The road runs down multiple canyons along the side of a mountain. Coming around the long turns as you start to drop into each canyon you can see the road ahead for about 3/4 of a mile. I get a lot of satisfaction when I see other guys on sportbikes checking their six when I'm still 3/4 of a mile of pavement behind them  . They keep checking until I catch them and nine times out of ten they just wave me by. Some don't though , but it doesn't matter. Eleven miles and about 300 turns. This is the home of the Buell and it's my back yard. Power doesn't matter here.
GO BUELL!!!
All that said... I can see your point Trooper. It would be nice to see a homologation special that I can walk into Mayer HD and look at... Then buy it from Dave . |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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Gads. . . . do you know that section of Hwy 89 where the Northbound and Southbound lanes seperate. . . 2 lanes each way?
I really thought it was a 2 lane road when I made the very safe U-Turn in front of the Highway Patrolman.
He said something I'll never forget. .. words, as it were, forshadowing other, equally unwise acts. . . when he looked at me and said "what you are you? . . a frickin idiot?"
I assured him I was, it was well documented and I could prove it.
He got nice and cut me loose. I suspected I was the last thing he wanted in his jail.
Great ice cream in Jerome....way cool road headed out of town and toward the super slab |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 03:54 pm: |
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Sure do Court. That's Yarnell Hill. We lose about six to ten sport bikers a year on that hill. I nearly went down on a dried blood slick just the other day about 3/4 of the way to the top. That slowed me down... I would have hit the guard rail in the same spot. I prefer the section about ten miles closer to Prescott (which is between Yarnell hill and Jerome on 89). The section closer to Prescott requires an average speed of about 65-75 (posted 35 with a number of yellow posted 25s) with a couple blasts just over a hundred instead of requiring an average speed of 120 like Yarnell hill does.
Both are fun sections of road though. The nice thing about Yarnell hill is that there's no on-coming traffic. I think that's why people get so crazy there too though.
There are excellent roads here in Northern AZ. |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 05:05 pm: |
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My aunt lives is Prescott, and I have driven 89 through Jerome on my way to Sedona a couple of times.
Great road! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 05:31 pm: |
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Try 89 out of Prescott the other direction . It's even better IMO. When you get to Wilhoit... turn around and do it again.
I've put about 9K of 19K miles on my 12R on that road . Lemme know the next time you make it out to your Aunt's place. |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:32 pm: |
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This may seem like a completely off-the-wall comparison, but the XBRR is doing for Buell what Letterboxing did for home video.
For those that don't know, I studied to be a director in college before following the love of my life to NJ, and falling for the Buell brand. I have an extensive video collection, DVD now overtaking VHS, but I always tried to get the widescreen editions of any video release back in the day.
Given the video library I had amassed in high school, my place was a popular spot to hang out after school to take in a movie before heading off to whatever was next. With each movie I played that was letterboxed, I would always field the question:
"What the hell are those bars at the top & bottom of the screen?"
I would always point out that all movies were wider, in one ratio or another, than they were taller, and that the picture wasn't cropped at the top & bottom, they were just seeing what they had been missing from right to left on normal video releases. The "Die Hard" 2 disc DVD has a great supplemental feature on this, but I'm loosing focus...
The XBRR is Buell Motorcycle Company's first widescreen premiere, so to speak, showing what all others were missing at the right & left hand sides from their previous releases.
I don't know, it sounded good in my head
Chris |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:38 pm: |
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It's OK odin, some of get what you are aiming at. |
Xbrad9r
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 11:10 pm: |
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to all who say i want one of those for the street, I would like to have a Ford Fusion like the Nextel Cup drivers drive. ( a 2-door, 700 plus hp, rear wheel drive ) instead of the 4 door, v6, front wheel drive that they offer for the street. I know Ford isn't building these cars themselves, the race teams are building them individually...
Buell is building these race bikes !!!
They are developing what it takes and building it in the factory, how much easier does this make it for racing technology to hit the streets. Ford used to have an ad that said "we race, you win", how much more true will it be for Buell and their future products.
And speaking of Nascar which is so-called "stock car" racing...this is far from the truth as I previously gave an example of. What about Toyota coming in with the Camry...are they going to offer their customers a 2door, v8, rwd version of it that their customers can buy and take to the track to race, no. But, Buell is doing just that for anyone with 30grand which is about the MSRP for a nicely loaded street camry. I'll take the Buell please.
I can't afford or justify an XBRR racebike, and if I could it would kill me or I would "kill" it. I am unable to effectively use all that my stock XB12R has to offer. I like to think I am a good rider, but I am not able to push my bike to its limits.
Would I like more horsepower? (Did cavemen always want a bigger club?) Of course I do. (and of course they did). This bike and the technology Buell has put into it may lead to incredible advances in the next generation of street XB's. ( whichh are already incredible machines.
Aside from the development and progress of the Buell motorcycles themselves, I see this as the opportunity for Buell to make an impact in the world of racing and gain a huge leap in brand recognition, respect and sales...which will increase profits, fund more R&D and so on and so forth.
Unlike Toyota entering into Nextel Cup, Buell throwing their hat into the ring is like David volunteering to take on Goliath. We all know how that one ended, and the XBRR looks like a pretty big stone.
Good luck, I can't wait to hear the RR "thunder"ing around the track, ear plugs sales should go up at all the venues this year. |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 06:03 pm: |
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Geez, some of these posts read like the Unibomber Manifesto. Stormtrooper, does your first name happen to be Theodore? 
I am very excited for Buell and can't wait to read about the race. I am very happy with my Ulysses. I look forward to the '08 model year when I will likely be in the market for my next Buell. Hopefully, by then some of this racing technology will result in an even more reliable and fun XB. I also hope it will put the brand more in the mainstream so I can buy stuff for my bike without waiting weeks for delivery. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Apparently you aren't calling Dave or Al or any of our other excellent sponsors . |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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Sure I have, and they are great. I would just like to see a Buell pro-shop where I could show up, see something I want, and buy it right there. As it is, waiting 7-10 days for the things I might want for my bike just makes me realize how to make do without. This is why I haven't bought any accessories for my Uly. I'm an impulse buyer with adult-ADD. If I can't get it now, I generally forget that I wanted it and move on. It's the price I pay for being a Gen-Xer, totally high on instant gratification my whole life.  |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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I hear you there .
I've committed though. $700 worth of leather and another ~$400 in parts and I'll be doing track days soon. Then Keith Code's CSS and then an amateur license and then an expert license. I've decided to dedicate $1000/Month to it. Life will be good. Thanks Erik and Co.
Knowing your path and walking it are two different things. I'll be walking mine from here on out and I'll do well. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 02:41 pm: |
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WAY TO GO Donald!!!  |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 02:55 pm: |
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Sounds like you got a great deal on leather M1. Glad to hear you'll be taking it to the track! |
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