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Stormtrooper
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 06:57 pm: | 
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Fine folks of BadWeb:
We have all been screwed. Again.
In order to logically support such a statement, allow me to re-tread some previously covered ground.
Re: Conformance for AMA competition of XBRR - Firstly, this vehicle is entirely illegal for AMA Formula Xtreme. On pgs 27-28, of the '06 AMA rule book the following rule is included as a qualification for competition: “2. Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and available in the US through retail dealers.” There seems to be very little room for "broad interpretation" here - this engine is simply not on the street, or available for street use.
Secondly, and for those, here and at the Company, who would be inclined to argue and define the "Engine modifications are unlimited" rule to include what is obviously and inarguably an entirely new powerplant, I would urge extreme caution. If such linguistic gymnastics were credible at all, then I would expect the other competitors to be granted the same latitude when suggesting that their airbox (or insert other restricted 4 cylinder component here)is not "modified" - which is expressly prohibited by the current AMA rules - but that rather it is "new" -a condition not governed by current rules - and should therefore be allowed into the competition. In my opinion, if one man's "new" can be classified as a modified condition, then another man's "modified" condition should certainly be within classification as "new". If so, then FX shall spiral downward into a hodge-podge of unlimited performance specials, that as consumers we shall never see on the street.
Clearly, from reading the introduction section of the rule book, pg 2, this is not the intent of the series. Seems to me that the AMA has, appropriately, set up 3 levels of racing, each clearly indicated as classes for production motorcycles, albeit with varying levels of modification from “lightly modified” (Superstock/Supersport) to “heavily modified” (Superbike), with FX described in the middle as "modified". I believe this is a good thing. With rules focusing on production vehicles and their modification, the OEM's must develop and improve production vehicles for racing, or the OEM's or aftermarket companies create performance components for these same vehicles. As consumers we benefit two-fold from this focus on production bikes: 1) As the OEM's push the performance envelope, around a production vehicle, such improvements invariably make it to the street as a new vehicle or model, and 2) In the same way, the aftermarket is focused on the same production vehicles in development of their performance additions which are subsequently offered for consumer enjoyment as well.
We've already witnessed the results of such dubious rule bending before - it was called the VR1000. As an initial offering, fairly competitive, but as time progressed, so did the VR's position in field - rearward. Why? Little to no development, as the vehicle was decidedly non-production, why spend valuable resources (time and money) improving the product? Neither OE nor aftermarket would support such a financially unrewarding effort, no consumers, no sales, no development.
At that time, had the AMA stuck to its guns and to the intent of its own rules focused on "production" motorcycles for competition, might the VR story have been different? Could, possibly, the general public witnessed a creation of a sporting HD, liquid cooled, with performance oriented architecture, in detuned form, available for purchase and for use on the street on a large scale? If so, would development around such a vehicle have continued, both on the OE side as well as in the aftermarket due to an increased demand from street bike owners? As Buell entered the HD picture, would a more performance oriented, creatively developed engine have existed for installation into Buell designed chassis works? We shall never know. Unfortunate.
Unfortunate, too, is that again we stand at such a crossroads - this time with a Buell offering. And once again, it would seem, that the AMA has failed to require the OE to maintain compliance with the most basic of the series rules. So, while Mr. Buell waxes poetic during his fireside chat with RoadRacer X (where I'm sure they shared a cup of cocoa), recalling his difficult days of yore as a privateer, while commiting to valiantly support the young privateers of today - we all get screwed out of a street bike that would seem to have some serious potential. And while I know there are some struggling privateers out there competing, I'm guessing that they won't be purchasing a "market adjusted" XBRR from one of the handful of dealers that purchased them. Nor do I think that "privateer" is an accurate description for EB to apply to riders supported by poor, struggling, down on their luck, HD dealerships (Can you say "record quarter earnings"?). I'm sure Picotte and Ciccotto have terrible difficulty in obtaining parts and equipment. While McWilliams and Penskofer will surely have to solve quite the conondrum in deciding whether to go with Red Label, Black Label, or a Heineken on the trip over from Europe.
Also, while "The bike is legal. Done. End of story." may be the be all end all for some, I'm not so inclined to be so accepting. I couldn't care less if the AMA was willing to pervert their series at the expense of some other consumers, while generating a fair bit of controversy and exposure to sell seats for themselves. Or if they seek to increase potential participation in AMA events by virtue of a manufacturer's expanded contingency program, up from $200,000 in '05 to $700,000 in '06 - a fact which, I'm sure, is completely unrelated to any decision to allow a motorcycle of questionable legality to compete in their sanctioned event. Please, as a friend of mine likes to say, "Don't pi$$ on my leg and tell me it's raining." The bottom line is simple, or at least it should be, to compete with honesty, integrity, with respect for the rules and with respect for the competition.
While we're on the subject of "exposure", for those of you with hopes that the XBRR powertrain may one day appear in showrooms near you, let's think about how a manufacturer would capitalize on such free advertising. Would it make good sense, and be quite logical, to launch a new, ground breaking racebike at the same time you would launch its street going variant, just prior to the most dramatic event of the season? At the same time the vehicle would, legitamately, qualify for the race series it would participate in, when all the hype was at its pinnicale, when the bikes went to Daytona and dominated the podium, wouldn't it make all good sense to have the vehicle available for consumer purchase? Now, I'm not a business man, but I'm thinking this seems a plausable scenario for generating interest in and purchase of my product. Or, as the case would seem to be here, would you launch your racebike amid various degrees of speculation, followed a year or so later with the production vehicle after the noise had settled down, and your competitors had a chance to play catch up (if needed)? Hmmmmmm. I'm thinking this would be unlikely - and it certainly was not the case with the VR1000.
So, in my opinion, we have here another grape that will most likely rot on the vine. Truly, a pity. Years from now, the bikes will be viewed in the HD museum, or at various dealerships as collectable curiousities, much like the VR. The fault for this scenario surely lies with Buell Motorcycle Company for failing to be committed to their customer - as we are all not "privateers", as well as with the AMA, whose decision to forgo enforcing their own rules may have cost us the forcing of HD's hand into providing all of us the opportunity to own a unique air cooled powerhouse.
Now, lest this post be derided as negative, disgruntled, or disloyal, let me assert that I am very much a fan of Buell, as an owner as well as having been involved with Buell Racing, to some degree. Also, please understand, that I in no way seek to degrade any of the effort that went into the creation of the XBRR. I know quite well that the challenges were great, the struggle was long, and that the end result is quite impressive. The development team, as well, has certainly proved through their actions and performance to be incredibly capable and talented. I am frustrated, as I believe HD/Buell to be the "sleeping dragon" of US motorcycle road racing, and we have once again seen the opportunity to wake the big bastard up slip away from us - if only the AMA had been kind enough to deliver the beast the kick in the head he needs.
My goal, is, and always has been, to elicit from the corporate level, the commitment to racing and to the Buell product that it truly deserves. Half-a$$ed commitment and one-of-a-kind flyers, will not get the job done, and in fact do more of a disservice to the goal of fullfilling the original purpose of Buell Motorcycle Company in developing a lasting reputation as a true track champion as well as being a lust generating mode of daily transportation. In my opinion, it is only when the full commitment of time, talent, and money, comes from such a corporate level, that Buell will be successful as a company - bar none. The assembled team is surely capable of such an effort, it could be grand if Buell management could prove just as capable in generating a valid business case for such a focused effort of talent. EB if you need some help with such an argument, I have a new bat. I broke the other one a few rounds ago.
So friends, as we cheer on our XBRR's at Daytona, let us do so with the realization that we will likely never own one, and that the marque we've supported for some 20 years has sold us out for the (potential) success of a handful of privateers and a few more ticket sales.
I'll be right there with you - you'll know who I am, as I'll be the one eating grapes.
As always, my words, my story |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 07:15 pm: |
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I'm going to have to disagree with you about the intent, goals and commitment of the Buell Motor Company.
I do not see any of this activity as short changing us, the loyal Buell fans. Quite the opposite.
It is more than a little dubious to berate Buell for failing to follow through without giving them a chance to do so.
Take a break, take a breath, and try view things with a little less cynicism. |
Stormtrooper
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |
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Diablo
You are quite right, only time will tell the full story.
But hasn't that always been the case??
Admittedly, I am most certainly, not without a colored perspective. However, history has often proven to repeat itself. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 08:16 pm: |
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Stormtrooper: Thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was intended.
Upon re-reading it it sounded a little harsh, at least the last line did. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 08:34 pm: |
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Troop I disagree. The motor is available on the street in a production bike. It is an XB modified to the very liberal rules. Now buell may have to take a step back and not sell this as a complete bike already assembled, they may have to sell it in crates for the racer to put together but it sure seems to meet the rules. People point to the legal disclaimer but Buell has to include that just like they do on the race kit. If it sold assembled it has to have a not legal for street use. There is not a single bike on the grid for FX that is legal for street use. Honda builds a complete bike for Duhamel, do you think they build a complete production MC and them take it all apart and modify it to be an FX bike? Please! Since it not SOLD they don't have to say it not legal for street use.
As for the VR bending the rules, it did not. The rules AT THAT TIME said you had to build 50 street legal examples abd they did that. It did not say US Stree legal like it does now. There was a loophole and they took it.
As far as this bike doing a disservice to Buell I again disagree. It goes straight to the heart of Erik's original goal, building privateer race bikes.
Buell in no way is building a street bike. This is not the next Buell adn Honda is not going to beat them to market. It is a hot rodded XB. Many of the ideas will make it to market. As far as the Japanese "catching up" They seeming have not yet even figured out the XB nuch less built a competitor. |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 09:32 pm: |
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Stormtrooper,
Let me say that is an extrodinarily well written and well reasoned piece. Which is not to say that I compleatly agree with it.
The bottom line is simple, or at least it should be, to compete with honesty, integrity, with respect for the rules and with respect for the competition.
I can understand where you are coming from. I always get upset when I watch a basketball game and the players foul each other. To me foul == cheat, but obviously to the coaches fouling someone is just part of the game. It's hard to fault someone for doing things allowed by the rules. If they really shouldn't be doing it, the rules should be changed.
I think the "unlimited modification" rule is unwise, because as I have argued elsewhere, it makes anything legal. Any other interpretation would violate the meaning of "unlimited." I doubt this is really what the AMA intended. But it's the AMAs responsibility to write clear rules, not racers responsibility to try and figure out what the AMA really intended.
So friends, as we cheer on our XBRR's at Daytona, let us do so with the realization that we will likely never own one
Here is where we disagree, but it's a matter of perspective. I would argue that I already do own something very similar to the XBRR. I believe the frame on the XBRR is the same one used on the Ulysses that sits in my garage. Its also used in the Lightning Long.
when the bikes went to Daytona and dominated the podium, wouldn't it make all good sense to have the vehicle available for consumer purchase?
The new frame was released this year, the same year it is going to race at Daytona.
I understand that you feel the motor is the central piece of the equation, and that having the XBRR motor in a bike you can buy is what you are asking for. You are certainly not alone in wanting a more powerful engine for Buell bikes. I just wanted to point out that there are other ways of looking at things. Certainly for me having a more powerful motor is irrelivant. But having a frame large enough to put both myself and the g/f on is wonderful. |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:09 am: |
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Stormtrooper,
Very nice conveyance of your opinions. Much more balanced than some of the other, even professionally written, concerns brought up over the introduction of the XBRR. But I do have to disagree on a few points:
The first (and probably foremost argued point) is the legality of the machine for AMA FX competition. Based on the 2006 rulebook, it is still the 4.4 gallon frame used on XB12Ss & XB12X models, the swingarm is a modified XB swingarm to accommodate the chain drive system, and the powertrain is still the same 45 degree, OHV pushrod actuated valvetrain gear driven quad cam setup that has been modified for race use only. I've spoken with the people behind the development of the program, and I believe they were in contact with the AMA on several occasions to ensure that their entry would not be disqualified before it ran a single race. Those that are unfamiliar with Erik & his passion to win the Daytona 200 do not know what he has had to endure in the past 20+ to get to this point, and the talent he has amassed will ensure that all this effort will not be in vein. Now, while you can not purchase the FX powertrain that Duhamel uses from HRC, you will be able to purchase the XBRR powertrain OTC at Buell dealers in the near future. I think a lot of the confusion regarding the legality of this machine is that Buell has opted to give their entry its own model designator, while other manufacturers opt to keep the street designators for machines that are no where near the same. Erik Buell is committed to Buell's customers (had you been at Up In Smoke in Texas you would have seen him speaking with Buell customers with genuine enthusiasm) as well as privateer racers, because he is passionate about motorcycles, and passionate about racing.
Now, the Harley-Davidson VR1000 project had incredible possibilities for the motor company, however, a complete mismanagement of the program is what led to its demise. At the time, due to DOT regs, it was not legal to sell in the US, so they were exported overseas to comply with AMA rules. The program had little to no developmental focus, and it showed on the track (watch old AMA footage, and the VR looked like it was coming apart in several places as it went around the track), which is why Buell is leaving the XBRR in the hands of privateer racers, but supporting them trackside for the major race events. The management of the VR program is something that the Buell racing effort will not have, and it's a shame that the VR is now the oddity that it is, because it was probably the coolest Harley-Davidson to come out of Milwaukee in the past 50 years.
We will have to sit back and watch what unfolds. Not whether the bike is disqualified, but how well it will do on the race circuit. I truly believe it will give the factory teams a run for their money, and wake up a few of the Buell haters as well.
Keep the faith. An event horizon occasion is coming for Buelligans all over the world. We just have to wait until it happens.
Chris |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:18 am: |
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The short non-fiction story:
50 people will own one, and the bike meets both the letter and intent of the rules. |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:39 am: |
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From RoadRacerX.com's interview with... Erik Buell 
You’ve mentioned a couple of times that the XBRR is based on the XB. Some have questioned the bike’s eligibility for FX, since the press release said it was designed “exclusively for closed course competition,” and the rules say the class is supposed to be based on street-legal machinery.
We just called it a name because we did, but it is a modified bike, and it meets the rules. It seems silly to call it the bike that it’s based off when it’s changed.
Does the AMA still have to make a ruling on that?
No, that was done a long time ago, so it’s definitely approved. We have a letter from them saying it’s approved.} |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:42 am: |
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I would love to sit down with Anonymous and hear the long version of the story over a few cold ones |
Socalbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 03:31 am: |
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Since in 06 the Firebolt was kind of left on the back burner (compared to the Lightning). I think it will be extremely lame for Buell not to offer the RR engine in street trim in 07. They would be stupid not too... Well I guess that depends on how successful the XBRR will be. |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 09:21 am: |
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The RR engine, with some work, can be fitted into a Firebolt. However, as it is a race only engine, it comes with no warranty.
Hang in there, things are coming that should keep everyone happy. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 09:37 am: |
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>>>50 people will own one, and the bike meets both the letter and intent of the rules.
That's a FAIRLY accurate statement. To be completely accurate the 50 would need to be qualified.
The available bikes were snatched up in minutes by customers. . . that's people writing checks and other people providing them motorcycles.
It's come to light that only 25% of the requests were met. I suspect the imminent success of the Buell XBRR will ensure more are built.
Using this motorcycle on the street would be like hunting dinner in Safeway with an Uzi. This is, precisely as the rules envisioned, an iteration of the Buell XB evolved for the purpose of racing.
It will do quite well I suspect. From my perspective, primarily owner enthusiasm, I can point to about 50 folks who will be in the stands who would not have otherwise been there.....I dig this. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 10:37 am: |
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All I care about is,
When can I buy the 130 HP Lightning version for the street?
The rest, to me, is all blah, blah! |
Southern Marine
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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I have one of the first versions. It's called an XB12R and I'm extremely happy with it. As Dave Gess said, Not a ONE of the other bikes out there on that track is street legal. None of them. All of them can be taken and made street legal with the necessary mods, even the XBRR. The RR looks like it uses the SAME exhaust we use, where the other race bikes don't use their factory exhaust, do they? |
Josh_
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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>hunting dinner in Safeway with an Uzi.
coool. Can Ted Nugent come? |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 01:08 pm: |
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the RR exhaust is not the same one run on the street bikes.
In fact the cam/ignition cover of the street bike would
interfere with the XBRR exhaust. |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 02:36 pm: |
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I can't afford to own one, but will someone please let me ride theirs? Come one,,,,,please :-) I'm old and very careful. The odds of me wadding it up are very minimal.
At least let DaveS ride one so we can vicariously live through his riding exploits.
G2 |
Mcgiver
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 03:13 pm: |
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Hey stormtrooper. how about updating your profile. It is showing you are not a motorcycle owner, but you stated that you are a buell owner(I think). Or are you just an armchair lawyer? I did enjoy reading your post,well written. Thanks Brian |
Aydenxb9
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 04:26 pm: |
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I love listening to people cry about this or that entity concerning rules when they think something is amiss. That means whoever they're crying about is on the right track. I used to find it a compliment when one of my creations would be the subject of the "crying game". That meant I was being successful at taking full advantage of the rules. As long as it crossed the scales at the end of the night and tech'd O.K., that's all that mattered. The trophy was awarded, the check written, and the points tallied.
Rules are written and enforced at the discretion of the sanctioning body. Their sandbox, their rules, their opinions. If AMA says it's good, then it's good no matter what the "book" says.
Just smile and wave boys, just smile and wave. The season is soon to be afoot and we've got a dog in the hunt............................. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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"(the XBRR) engine is simply not on the street, or available for street use."
Prior to its rules compliant "unlimited modification" it certainly is. In that respect it is no different to any other race-legal engine in any class of AMA Pro Racing in that it is modified from its street engine origins according to the applicable and clearly stated technical rules.
The different level of modification afforded air-cooled twins in FX is no different in intent than the Superbike class rules that allow twin cylinder engines more extensive modification than their IL4 competition. The rules are formed wiht the intent to create parity among all the various configurations of competing engines. Period. And with the XBRR engine, Buell is entirely within not only the letter of the FX class rules, but also and even more so than any other factory racing machine effort, the spirit of the rules.
So whoever you are, and I have no clue, please move on to something more positive than attacking Buell and telling us all that "we have all been screwed again." I sure don't feel like Buell the company, motorcycle, or man has ever "screwed us".
Your grapes surely are sour.
If you make it to Daytona, please introduce yourself and say "hello." I wonder why are hesitate to do so now. |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 06:22 pm: |
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Stormtrooper,
You write well -- near perfect in fact.
I smell a troll with purpose. That wasn't a quick hack on a Internet BB.
You should take advantage of Blake's invitation and introduce yourself in Daytona.
G2 |
Daves
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 06:29 pm: |
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Yeah,let me ride one! |
Bigdaddy
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 06:35 pm: |
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Daves, I'm trying, man, I'm trying :-)
G2 |
Mikeyp
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 09:53 pm: |
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I'm with Brucelee.
If the RR hit the showroom i'd be very interested in getting myself one.
Right now though, i'm leaning towards a new Aprilia. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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Hey,Mike.Is that new Tuono bitchin or what??I was all over it at the IMS show. |
Nasty73z
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 01:15 am: |
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I think the new Tuono is UGLY as hell. I think the front end looks so out of place and unflattering to the bike. The previous models looked much better, almost bought a Tuono Factory from the local Aprilia dealer when they had it on close out. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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Each to his own as I did not care for the old one. |
S1eric
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 01:04 pm: |
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I'm with Brucelee & Mikeyp.
If their is a street version of the RR
sign me up.
Trooper made a good point about the opportunity
here for releasing a new model, or possibly
an 07 Firebolt. But i`m sure HD & Buell marketing
wouldn`t want to harm sales of existing bikes
in the showrooms.
I am in the market for another bike this year.
I like the Tuono, I`m also looking at Ducs and
Triumphs 675 & speed triple.
I would like to add a new buell to the stable
so i`m hoping the 07 Bolt will have more HP.
S1Eric |
Madduck
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 01:46 pm: |
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There are hints of something interesting showing up in the "homecoming" time frame. I am guessing street going XBRR, all the appearance items and new engine cases. Lightweight and ohlins pieces probably gone but available. Probably hinges on interest and factory has seen plenty of interest already. If we can verify Courts appearance at homecoming, the wild speculation can really commence. |
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