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Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:52 pm: | 
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Just a ? here, I see the new and "improved" horsepower ratings here...Just wonder 150 ponies at crank, wd. this not be around 135 give or take at the rear wheel, IF so I was under the understanding that a few race teams out there all ready have 130 /135 ponies at the rear wheel out of their mods on the Xb platform and it wd. not cost an extra 20,000 dollars to do that??
Bored, punched, ported, and polished, cams etc. wd not say $5,000. or less cover that from some of the sponsors here on Badweb etc.etc. and one could see say 130 ponies or there abouts...Just a thought??
(Message edited by hogs on January 25, 2006) |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:57 pm: |
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A race reliable 135hp with a 8800limit for $5000, probably not.
But i dont deal with these things on a regluar basis. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:05 pm: |
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The XBRR spec sheet says "150+ peak horsepower", how much that "+" is is anyone's guess. It's already been suggested that this can easily be massaged to higher numbers by proficient engine tuners. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:16 pm: |
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I`m sure that 130 + hp. is out there on the tracks all ready thats for sure..and Whodom I think that Eric Wd. have gotten more out of it,with his Techs/Enginers/engine tuners if it is as you say... |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:21 pm: |
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Who's to say he didn't Hogs? It wouldn't be proper form to show everyone your hand in a game of five card stud... |
Daves
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:51 pm: |
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Who knows what can be done?
I am sure we will find out though.
By the way, we are not getting one |
Fbolt
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:22 pm: |
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Too bad Dave-I was hoping to see you run FX this year. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:32 pm: |
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It was hinted that the bottom end of the redesigned motor is much stronger than the current model.
The oil pump is a major element in this but I would hazard a guess that it's not the only change. |
Diablomichael
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 08:06 pm: |
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I am sure the bike as it sits will need work to run with Rich C's bikes. I am also sure much is in the works. They have taken a design that he has proven to be a winner and made it stock . |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
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Remember on the track we can tune XB's and a Buell track bike at 135+ RWHP is what it takes. On the street there are several bike at that power, but tuning is an issue with most. We have 1210cc and 118 HP and ran all season on the same bottom end and changed pistons and the Ti valves at mid season. But the more you tighten the HP screw the more work in the weeks between races. Big 88inch street bikes with good heads steel valves can and do run well, but sometimes they would not be my choice for a cross country ride. ... I will limit my "ULY" to a bolt on 1250 with heads and 105 to 110 HP only because I want to do a few 500 mile days on it. ... Terry |
186bigtwin
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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Give Tilley two of em he'll have em making 150 rwhp all the engine needs to do is make 183 BMEP. XR-750's make over 200 BMEP. |
Charlieboy6649
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:22 am: |
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Hogs,
The motor isn't the only place that 20,000 went. Mag wheels and ohlins susp aren't cheap. I see your point, but the XBRR for the $$$ ads much to the package than the current racers are using. |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:51 am: |
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Also, the XBRR engine is just as reliable as the stock XB9 or 12. Several of these kits will absolutely give you better performance, but be prepared for an increase in failures. Could be only one more in comparison, could be much, much worse.
This is a Buell motor, from the ground up. All other racing efforts have relied on aftermarket parts to get more power out of their engines. Crank pins & shaft on the XBRR are considerably beefier than the stock setup, completely different flywheels, much higher compression that the cases can handle. Magnesium and carbon fiber components aren't cheap either, along with design & testing for the exhaust system & aerodynamics, new braking system & top notch suspension components. $31,000 ready to race out of the box with the reliability of the XB powertrain is a steal for any racer. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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HEy All,
I guess my point is That for the 5,000. or so dollars One could get up to around the same horsepower ratings as the new xbrr,perhaps the same relabilty as the new RR, As one has to remember the RR is race only so in saying that How long do you think a race only wd. stay together on the Street, Wd. ya get 40,000 miles on the street like some have here in stock form, or with some mods??
Perhaps with the 5,000. spent they wd. last on the street approx: the same amount of wear and tear and the same amount of Horse Power or there abouts...And yes I know the other say 15 to 20 Thousand has gone elsewhere for other mods etc.etc.
Odinbueller I wd. have to disagree with this statement at this time..."Also, the XBRR engine is just as reliable as the stock XB9 or 12."
RAce only against built for the street thats as different as NIGHT and Day..!(perhaps detune for the street it may be or better)
JUst trying to make a point regarding the Hp & Torque output here.. I wd. think relabilty race and stock are two different animals here.. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:32 am: |
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A motorcycle is more than the sum of it's parts.
Think of all that went into building the RR.
One would have to make enough money off the RR to pay everyone that worked on the bike, engineered the bike, put the bike togther...etc. It's called return on investment.
Plus the RR is more than just the engine. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:40 am: |
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Yup , have to agree 100 percent there with ya Glitch.. I still love my R LoL My warrantly is up in April ...Will ride this baby this year as is.. Next winter Hmmm thats another story..
Hope to see a NEw R come out this Summer for the street may sell my old Girl orrrr Do her up next winter with a 88 kit etc. Wd. like to see more posts of Buellers here that have mod. theirs with a 88 kit and see how they are staying together etc... Not sure on HP. increase But wd. expect the the torque figures to go way Upppppp |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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I guess my point is That for the 5,000. or so dollars One could get up to around the same horsepower ratings as the new xbrr,perhaps the same relabilty as the new RR,
Cost to remove disassemble engine, bore cases to 4.010 for 3 13/16 Rev Perf barrels and CP pistons have Falacon build you a custom 3.125 crank, with S&S rods. Add a pair of Stg 3 heads with Ti valves and Red Shift 643 cams Smith Brothers push rods roller rockers and some type of lash limit lifters. With the labor to build the above the total will run better than $10K
Now add new frame, wheels, body work, forks, shock exhaust, then build and tune it for under $20? ... I don't Think So, but can you take a XB or Tube Framed Buell you already own put $5K into the motor and have a 125 RWHP? ... Yes if you shop around for the parts, ... But it Ain't Going to be an XBRR |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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Buelldyno_guy,
You are right>But it Ain't Going to be an XBRR ,
and no one said it wd. be...the parts you mention I guess if ya don`t know what to do..you wd. spend that kind of $$$ ??? to get someone to do it for ya...In my case Wd. not spend or buy them parts..300.00 to bore cases, say 1500. for jugs and pistons, cams say 500.???? port and polish the heads do that myself or easy get done here for 400. ( nothing wrong with the Xb heads to do up)the other items well over kill I think ya went a little over board there .. even so I`m just talking Hp here ,Torque wd. be as the rr 100 say no plkm. there with a 88 kit or more LOts of fun down low) But not as much redline But then torque is down below Big bore lots of Torque..
Frame,wheels etc.etc I`m not going there.. Those wheels wd. never last on todays roads/potholes etc.etc Seen more guys get them and bend them on the street in no time...Just trying to make a point as far as lets Say torque goes easy to meet the RR figures within that price range...! MAybe I should have title this Torque and not Horsepower? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:23 pm: |
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Okay Hogs, you got my attention, so brace yourself, here comes Blake!  Just kidding, kinda. It's all just fun talk. Nothing personal at all. So here goes...
"I guess my point is that for the 5,000 or so dollars one could get up to around the same horsepower ratings as the new xbrr"
And last through a Daytona 200 weekend? Not likely. And truth be told, we really don't know the RWHP. Probably not a good idea to show your hand prior to the big race.
"perhaps the same relabilty as the new RR, As one has to remember the RR is race only so in saying that How long do you think a race only wd. stay together on the Street, Wd. ya get 40,000 miles on the street like some have here in stock form, or with some mods??"
I dunno, but I find it VERY difficult, almost impossible to imagine that the RR engine is less reliable considering that it appears headed for the Daytona 200.
"Perhaps with the 5,000. spent they wd. last on the street approx: the same amount of wear and tear and the same amount of Horse Power or there abouts...And yes I know the other say 15 to 20 Thousand has gone elsewhere for other mods etc.etc."
I don't know of any 150 HP Buells that have survived for 40K miles on the street. If you do, please tell us, that would be great to know!
Fact is that no one really knows what the XBRR performance or reliability will be. Logic would suggest that it offer improved performance or/and reliability, but until we see the pudding, we are just having fun talking about it.  |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 02:27 pm: |
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Blake ,
Where have ya been I`m been waiting on ya to chime in LoL..
Regarding the horsepower to rear wheel I wd. think it wd.be somewheres around the 135 giving the nomal power loses through the powertrain etc..
Regarding the reliabilty being race only more set on kill than for street use I was comparing the Xb with mods to get in and around the 135 range to be somewhere the same..Not like our stock xb`s with just the race kits and exhausts etc. guess I did screw that up saying that the modifly xb`s would last 40,000 miles ( not sure though if that is what i Said) I was talking about the stock xb`s Sorry :-)
Don`t get me wrong I Loves my xb`s have 4 of these babies now looking at a 5th SS to join in the stables soon..
I guess the torque figures wd. be as high "100" or more with the built up xb motors no way can we rev as high..Guess i`m more into torque than revs for the street..I love the Torque..
And you are 100 percent right good to to talk about it all, Sorry if I came off wrong here to others.. LoL And you are right who knows what the NEW Xb can do with mods..!!! |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
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Hogs, On my own bike, I don't pay myself the kind of money I would have to charge at the shop. But you didn't say this was a $5K self built (Zero Labor) engine. Sure it can had has been done, but for our discussion here how many BW'rs can do it. What would you charge for your time to build a 125 HP Buell Tube or XB for someone else? If we are comparing XBRR cost to a 125 hp modified street XB9 to keep the 3.125 crank in won't be cheap. ... Terry
(Message edited by buelldyno_guy on January 29, 2006) |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 04:24 pm: |
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Hi Terry,
You are right, BTW which co. are you with again..? |
Thansesxb9rs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:04 pm: |
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XBRR motor, $16K for it. From a source that went to Dallas. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:11 pm: |
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"Regarding the horsepower to rear wheel I wd. think it wd.be somewheres around the 135 giving the nomal power loses through the powertrain etc.. "
But you don't know do you? Adn do you really expect Buell to show their hand for all to see? That's be foolish wouldn't it?
Terry is enjoying himself at Vallejo HD/Buell. |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:12 pm: |
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I am retired from the engineering department of an airline that went bankrupt and get to play at being the manager of Performance Services at H-D Buell of Vallejo. The Dyno Room, Buell performance work and our AFM Race Team are my responsibility. ... And BTW It's So Much Fun. ... Terry
(Message edited by buelldyno_guy on January 29, 2006) |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:32 pm: |
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Thanks Blake,
Okay thanks Terry Knew you were in there somewhere, Just forgot...I`m not questioning anyones knowledge or lack off here ...
Blake you are right...I do not know,However I`m betting dollars for donuts its not far off. Time will tell..Personally IF I wanted a high reving machine I wd. not have bought a buell, not that I wd. buy anything but a V-Twin, for the street I wd. say the more torque one has the better for that hold on for dear life feeling...Torque Rules and If and I`m sure one could build a reasonable 110 lb torque monster out of a 1450 kit that wd. tend to stay together, I wd. like to see more posts as in the other thread I started XB12 1450 kit..Do ya all know of some who has built and I say for the street that has good luck with them builds?? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:38 pm: |
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Cycle Rama and Revolution Performance, two of our sponsors are well acquainted with reliable high performance street Buell engines. Give them a call.
So your answer is that yes, you believe that Buell would show their hand to everyone prior to the big race.
I don't think so.
How much HP does an XR750 crank out? You have any idea?
Can you do the math? |
Thansesxb9rs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 05:46 pm: |
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I think they understated the HP rating in the Spec sheet. Wouldn't that be awesome for once if a mfg understated instead of overstated the figures. Well except for the price. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 06:00 pm: |
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Blake nope , when it comes to math I leave that up to my mAth Buddy LoL..
Well No I wd. not think they wd. but perhaps that is approx: all it does have.. to keep it together for long periods of racing.Did they not release a V-rod ( HARLEY)RAce only drag bike with high output ratings and thats all they had, and I know HArley and Buell are different than one another..Just wondering also when Canadian Thunder were here racing in Nova Scotia last year there were about a Dozen of them here and they had to detune their bikes for the tracks, down to I think it was around 105-110 Hp.range,And some of their bikes I think were up around the 130HP.range so I`m saying that perhaps its not far off.But Again I don`t know what classes and ratings if any they have to abide by..To me it does seem strange saying 150 HP and an even 100 for torque so you are all probably right may be alot bigger numbers LoL |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 08:28 pm: |
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Stuff I haven't seen addressed so far:
Does anyone know if the XBRR uses longer rods than the XB9? Might explain the perceived taller case deck.
Is it me or are the pushrod tubes not parallel? What kinda affect would that have on people trying to install RR parts on XB or even XL bottom ends?
Does this bike have equal front & rear exhaust lengths? I remember the XBs (at least the 9) have unequal lengths.
The intakes are individual. Do the exhaust headers run into a common collector or do they have independent paths through the muffler? Like 2 in, 2 out...
The XB9 and Blast already have the same short stroke. What about the RR bottom end makes it tolerate even higher revs than the XB9 while having a GIGANTIC EFFING PISTON? Kinda why I was curious about conrod length....
-Saro |
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