| Author |
Message |
    
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:14 pm: | 
|
I saw an interesting post about this on Sacborg. Check out some of the obvious differences in the standard XB engine and the XBRR:
Notice mainly how much taller the crankcase is where the cylinders attach, which allows for longer connecting rods and spreads the cylinders further apart, allowing more room for the intake tracts between the heads. This must be a completely new crankcase casting. The heads look very different (different rocker cover arrangement, more fins, etc.). Notice the apparent lack of an external oil pump and the completely different cover over the cam drive gears. I'm thinking maybe the oil pump is inside this new cover and is driven off the end of one of the cam gears, doing away with the 90 degree cross-helical oil pump drive gears of all earlier Sportster-based plants.
Anything else jump out at anyone?
The left side of the plant shows some interesting things, but I can't find a decent photo of the left side of a stock XB engine out of the frame for comparison. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:51 pm: |
|
The oil filter on the race engine is blue. It's black on the street engine.   |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:14 pm: |
|
Aha... The protrusion on the other side may be for timing. That cam cover really isn't THAT much different. It looks like they just made it a two piece cover. The tappet block area looks to be inspired by the S&S drag engines (I also seem to remember Erik saying some time ago that he had poked his head into one of the bores on the drag bikes and looked around as well).
I'm sure they're using longer conrods as that'll give you a few benefits on a racetrack. Less side loading and the ability to go with a larger bore. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:31 pm: |
|
M1, Interesting comments. The thing I note about the cam cover it's now 2 separate pieces and you can see where the upper oil hose fitting comes directly out of it at top.
Here's another photo showing the evident lack of external oil pump.
Mike, think that blue oil filter is good for 5 HP?  |
Darkducati
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:35 pm: |
|
At least! |
Exitlandrew
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:42 pm: |
|
All I know is, if I hit the lottery tomorrow, all of that would be swapped into my Firebolt by the end of the month. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
|
Dry sump in the swingarm then? Why?
Looks like it needs a Drummer to me  . |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
|
More great detailed engine photos near the bottom of this thread:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/17143/169616.html?1138207502 |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:03 pm: |
|
Heads are completely different. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
|
So when are we going to get a press conference on all the specific changes that were made for this bike from Buell? |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
|
Hugh,
I took those two pictures at the top and overlaid them in Photoshop to get an idea of the height difference of the motors, and you can readily see it that way. You have to set the transparency to lighter in the foreground image.
Jim
(Message edited by jima4media on January 25, 2006) |
Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
|
On closer inspection of the pix on another link the primary side buldge on the crank center is the light weight race alternator and timing pickup the stator wires exit front center, the position pickup exits top center further outside.
The more you look at the thing the more you can see how much thought went into it, AWESOME. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:28 pm: |
|
>>>how much thought went into it,
I know a couple of the engineers who have been involved in this. They are SERIOUSLY smart souls and I can't wait to see this chapter in Buell history play out.
I was excited at first. Then I saw the picture of the folks gathered in the room...looked at the faces and realized I was aware of only the tip of the iceberg.
These, to quote Court from 1997, are the folks who hot rodded '57 Chevy's now come together as a team armed with resources, top notch educations, lots of experience and a room full of equally smart and passionate folks.
So continues the Legend of the Elves. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:29 pm: |
|
>>>Anything else jump out at anyone?
Yeah. . . the guy holding his ears JUST LOOKING AT IT! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:32 pm: |
|
LOL... Good one Court . |
Odinbueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:45 pm: |
|
Court you are insane! |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:50 pm: |
|
"Court you are insane!"
That is an accurate statement. BLAAHAHAHAHAHA |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 09:53 pm: |
|
Two big things jump out. The heads are taller and very much like the XR750 with the rocker boxes built in. Needed because the valve angle changed to straighten the flow and allowing room between the heads for the huge 62 mm TB's. The other is the cases, the max dia. for stock barrel spigots is 4.010 and that's the size used with a 3.875 bore. So if the bore gets larger 4.080 the barrel OD need to get bigger also. That's why the new stronger case bosses were needed. The primary and cam cover are just some nice pieces made to meet the needs. To save some weight many XBs use a total loss electrical system for club racing. AMA bikes run longer races and the voltage drop in TL systems is too great. The fuel pump looses pressure and that effecting the ECMs fuel dwell time. So I think we have a new small alternator to supply just what is needed. On the oil pump at high RPM there has been an issue with the stock pump I am sure that they took this opportunity to correct that issue on this race motor. ... |
Chadleys1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
|
One of the things I remember Erik saying at the BBQ in Dallas, Monday night, was that the new cases have the holes for the pushrods "shifted outward a little bit, to make room for the bigger pistons."
-Yes, it was one of the coolest happenings I have ever attended. There was a tangible excitement in the air that we were all a part of something big taking place in the motorcycle world and something gargantuan in the Buell world.
In this picture, notice how proud the Buell Motor Company guys look, check out Dan Hurda in particular. This was so fun.
 |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:03 am: |
|
Looks like true downdraft intake-port/cylinder-head geometry. The XB9/XB12 intake-port geometry was a compromise and not true downdraft in a racing sense.
Did you see the pic of the crank/flywheel? Definitely different. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:04 pm: |
|
A few more pics up at http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/17143/169616.html?1138291193
Note the Pegasuses (Pegasi?) on the block! I don't think they'll be using these cases on any Sportsters. |
Lenny
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
|
All engines benefit from longer connecting rods, aways with no exception regardless of the length of stroke or purpose of the engine. Short connecting rods creating high rod angularity cause premature wear from the greater side stress, making a weak and poor choice. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:29 pm: |
|
Well sort of . Once you get the side load ratio to a certain point (about 1.7:1) then you are up against the law of diminishing returns and you don't want to go "too long". |
Josh_
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
|
>I don't think they'll be using these cases on any Sportsters
yeah, but will we see them on any street Buells? Don't the FX rules imply we will? |
Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:48 pm: |
|
yeah, but will we see them on any street Buells? Don't the FX rules imply we will?
Josh, I bet you're right. I don't think Buell would go to the trouble to put the Pegasus logo on a pure-race casting, and that new cam cover/integrated oil pump looks way too "finished" to be a pure-race part. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 03:09 pm: |
|
>I don't think Buell would go to the trouble to put the Pegasus logo on a pure-race casting,
I don't know, if you had the chance to cast your family crest on a race motor, wouldn't you?  |
Davegess
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:13 pm: |
|
>I don't think Buell would go to the trouble to put the Pegasus logo on a pure-race casting
Erik would. |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:48 pm: |
|
Hell, I would. No doubt! |
Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 06:09 pm: |
|
I guess I didn't think too hard before I said that. Still, all those "race" pieces look awfully "finished". I guess I'd just expect pure race-only parts to look like they were machined out of billet without much regard to appearance.
Anyway, it is cool to see the Pegasus back. Seems like it had gotten kind of scarce for a while. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 06:38 pm: |
|
A lot of race only specialty parts are sand cast with a fairly unfinished look to them.
Production parts, on the other hand, are die cast in most of the instances you are referring to.
The pics appear to have many die cast parts. Indicating that the company invested in the very
expensive dies. They usually do not do that for "one-off" parts. |
XBRR Threads Consolidated Here! »
XBRR Engine Differences »
Archive through January 27, 2006