| Author |
Message |
    
Choptop
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:08 pm: | 
|
Pardon the multipole posts, I did have it all in one post, but my browser crashed, so I'm let the beatings go a little at a time. |
Choptop
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
|
The parts on the XBRR have been avail to club racers for a long time.
Not the new engine... but cc kits.
Ask Terry how many HP thier Buell puts out. You'll be suprised.
CF faring? You can get it
Ohlins front and rear? check
chain conversion? check
its all been there, all you need is $. Making 50 of them isnt going to make these parts any cheaper.
keep this in mind... all of those who would like to make the XBRR into some revolutionary NEW thing that is going to clean up on the track....
its just a factory version of what racers have already been doing.
The COOOOOOOOOOL part about it is that its avail, welll not really avail cuz they have all already been sold... but avail from the factory set up and ready to go.
Go for Buell for doing this. WAY cool.
but please... hold off on the predictions of glory. Its just a Race Bike (like lots of Buell race teams already run), done by the factory.
way cool? Yes.
revolutionary? No. |
Choptop
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
|
P.S. I had the opportunity to race an XB on the club level.... couldnt afford it. For the price of the chain conversion and fairing ALONE (no XB included) I bought a race ready, competitive SV650.
Club level racers that can put $31k into ANY bike are few and VERY far between.
Its even a stretch for those with a dealer backing them.
remember, a race bike is one tiny little mistake away from being a waddded up piece of junk worth NOTHING. Not even much in parts value. And you dont even have to be the one to make the mistake, it can be one of your esteemed co-racers.
thats alot to gamble... when all thats on the line is a $7 plastic trophy and $500 (tops, IF you WIN) in parts from the factory.
p.s.s.... and not even mentioning that a weekend of racing will prolly run ya $300-600... EASY.
(Message edited by Choptop on January 24, 2006) |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:36 pm: |
|
300-600 a weekend is low....300 won't buy you a pair of slicks, or even sticky DOT's. entry
fees, fuel, food, lodging.....better plan on at least $1000 a weekend for serious club racing.
That's if....IF...nothing breaks. |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:04 am: |
|
I didn't see any number requirement for FX in the rule book, only for Superstock and Superbike.
http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/pdf/RR%2006%20Rulebook.pdf |
Xbolt12
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:18 am: |
|
Maximum fuel capacity for FX is 5.02 gallons and air-cooled twins are allowed an auxillary tank-so the question is can the XBRR run 200 miles on 5 gallons? I would think not... |
Choptop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 12:21 am: |
|
yep... gas in for the race rig runs at least $150... for the close tracks. $400 if its far away.
then it starts to add up.
some weekends it just costs entry fees, fuel, food and radnom stuff.
if ya want tires, break anything, buy any new go fast parts... it adds up even more.
the point is, it aint cheap, and $31k for club racer is alot.
$4k for race ready bike fits my budget.
(Message edited by Choptop on January 25, 2006) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:20 pm: |
|
Dave (Tripper),
"Can you provide a lap time of a XBRR on any track please?"
No I cannot. But to clarify... As was so astutely pointed out by Spike above, my comment was in rebuttal to the claim that a street bike, a "race replica" outperforms the XBRR. The race replicas for the Formula Xtreme class comprise the Japan Inc 600cc machines and the Ducati 749R. In stock form, none of those come close to either 362 LB weight or 150 HP.
As far as lap times go, I assume the XBRR will be significantly faster than the prior Buell FX racing machines and those were plenty fast.
(Message edited by blake on January 25, 2006) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
|
Chop,
Please big guy, drop the personal attacks. You are above that kind of silliness. We try to avoid that kind of dialogue here; in fact it's a violation of BadWeB policy to engage in personal attacks.
See Spike's clarification of my statement. Amazingly, he understood my point.  We should all thus be afraid of Spike. 
Skepticism is fine. I personally happen to prefer optimism and enthusiasm; most folks do I think. So please forgive our enthusiasm and optimism concerning the new and indeed revolutionary Buell XBRR race bike. Something for you and some others to consider...
quote:A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past; he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future.
Sydney J. Harris (b. 1917), U.S. journalist. On the Contrary, ch. 7 (1962).
Courtesy of MS Bookshelf 2000 
"there are as many people racing Buells at SacBorg as there are here... perhaps more. Suck it up, live with it."
Care to make a wager on that? I guarantee that you are not only wrong, but egregiously so. FYI: I too had heard that SacBORG was now advertised as an all-brand generic motorcycle board. Someone must be mistaken?
"a $10k replia-racer with 150hp at the crank?"
IL4 literbikes are not AMA Formula Xtreme eligible. Not sure any repliracers weigh-in full-wet at or below 390 LBs either. How many have Ohlins suspensions? Magnesium wheels? Full race ready CF fairing and race tail section? Gotta pay for that stuff. What does a mass produced Ducati 999R go for? That'd be a bit closer to apples to apples. Please do go tell Ducati that they are silly for selling their race bike for so much and that you can go buy a Japan Inc replica racer for $10K that makes the same or more HP.
"The parts on the XBRR have been avail to club racers for a long time."
Not the engine, nor the tranny, nor the wind tunnel tested ram-air fairing, nor the tail section, nor the rear brake, nor the front brake caliper, nor the magnesium wheels, nor the exhaust system. Try again amigo.
"its just a factory version of what racers have already been doing."
Wrong again amigo. The new engine and tranny and bodywork is a giant leap from what was previously available. What prior Buell do you know of that has a 4" bore and a 3.125" stroke and can rev reliably to 8,500 rpm. You've seen 62mm throttle bodies before, on any road race bike? You've seen a tranny with concentric input/output shafts on a Buell before? You've seen magnesium duplicates of Buell XB stock wheels before? Club racers have been able to get their hands on the Buell 8-pot ZTL caliper? Really? Try again amigo.
"Making 50 of them isnt going to make these parts any cheaper."
Really? The local machinists and fab shops here must be idiots then. They'll decrease their price after just a few units compared to a one-off prototype. Try again compadré.
"the point is, it aint cheap, and $31k for club racer is alot. ... Club level racers that can put $31k into ANY bike are few and VERY far between. "
Rest easy knowing that Buell is not building 50 XBRR racing machines for the club racer market. Think AMA Formula Xtreme, the Thunderbike national series and similar national series in other countries. That ain't club racing, not by a longshot.
"$4k for race ready bike fits my budget."
Rest easy then knowing that Buell wasn't aiming for your business with the XBRR.
"but please... hold off on the predictions of glory. Its just a Race Bike (like lots of Buell race teams already run), done by the factory. Way cool? Yes. Revolutionary? No."
Please see the quote about cynicism. What is better, enthusiastic optimism, or naysaying cynicism? I'll take the optimism most times. Suggest you hold off on the cynicism. Buell racers and their teams might just do well with XBRR this year. Tough for any team, even factory teams to do well right out of the box with a new racing machine, take Honda in AMA Superbike for instance.
Do you think that maybe, just maybe, Buell is keeping a little in their pocket wrt the XBRR? Do you imagine that Buell Racing would really show their hand for all to see at this stage of the game? That would be kinda dumb, wouldn't it?
"Pardon the multipole posts, I did have it all in one post, but my browser crashed, so I'm let the beatings go a little at a time."
No problem, on account of your little stink bombs mostly blew up right in your own face. 
Good to see you stirring things up here though, just except for the personal attack stuff. It's mostly good. Please don't take it personal when I or others rebut. I think you are swell. Anyone who offers me an open invitation for lodging is aces in my book.
See you at Laguna. Too bad there's no FX racing scheduled for that event.  |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:01 pm: |
|
I think Terry said that the Vallejo 1179cc Buell racing machine is making close to 130 RWHP. Is that right Terry?
I agree with you concerning the SV650 point. I'm very skeptical that there will be any XBRR's racing in classes that would pit them against an SV650. The basic XB9R's do fine in that regard. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:02 pm: |
|
You know if this thing didn't look so darm competitve the boys over at Erion Honda wouldn't be making a stink about it now would they? |
Josh_
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:09 pm: |
|
Blake,
Kind of funny - you see Chop as attacking Buells, I see him as destroying the argument that the XBRR isn't based on an existing street bike.... |
Nasty73z
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:11 pm: |
|
Actually Blake I have seen that brake caliper on the race bikes, it was even in an article online. It happened around the time that Buell asked the racers to use the ZTL brake and wheel instead of the duals that they were witching to. They said the ZTL doesn't work as well, so Buell stepped in and helped in order to get them to switch.
But you're that that none of the other parts were available directly from Buell to the racers. |
Madduck
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:23 pm: |
|
Debate is fine, but the AMA says The XBRR is legal to run in the formul extreme at DAytona this year. I hope it wins and takes all the podium places. There is nothing like the sound of a Buell/harley v-twin race motor at speed.
Chop, better take a look at the new motorcycle rules on the SCTA site. Changes clobbered Aaron and me. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:41 pm: |
|
He was talking about club racers Josh. FX bikes and Pro-Thunder isn't "exactly" club level. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:51 pm: |
|
M1:
Chop said:
>>
The parts on the XBRR have been avail to club racers for a long time.
CF faring? You can get it
Ohlins front and rear? check
chain conversion? check
its all been there, all you need is $.
its just a factory version of what racers have already been doing.
Its just a Race Bike (like lots of Buell race teams already run), done by the factory.
way cool? Yes.
revolutionary? No.
>>
Cut and paste that to any I4 site that's frothing about the XBRR not being based on an existing bike.
You would also want lines about the chassis, front brake, rim (size) etc all starting from the street bike. |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:54 pm: |
|
I agree with Choptop on the hold off on predictions. It's a very cool bike, that I'm sure will evolve more over time. Sure, it is the same old engine, but has a bunch of modifications/improvements that should help reliability. However, the Daytona 200 is a tough, tough race on equipment and riders, especially new teams and riders without much time to prepare. But whether they wind up on the podium there or not, I am definitely going to be there watching, and I'll bet there will be more interest in the 200 than there has been for a while! |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:00 pm: |
|
Exactly Mr. Mushman!! Win lose or draw, it's a bike that will be ,at least, competitive in the right hands. Plus it looks sweet! |
Crusty
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:07 pm: |
|
I'll be there watching, too. The best place I've found for viewing the race is high in the stands outside the first turn (into the infield). We should get everybody together there to watch the race.
It sure would be sweet if a Buell could make it on the box. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:09 pm: |
|
>>>>the AMA says The XBRR is legal to run in the formul extreme at DAytona this year.
That is an accurate statement.
>>>I'll bet there will be more interest in the 200 than there has been for a while!
Talk about a SAFE BET. I'd be buying airline stocks. I've seen LOTS of Buell excitement over the years. It all pales in comparison to this. Heck...even my SCU is excited about going!
See ya at Daytona. |
Choptop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
|
"a $10k replia-racer with 150hp at the crank?"
IL4 literbikes are not AMA Formula Xtreme eligible. Not sure any repliracers weigh-in full-wet at or below 390 LBs either. How many have Ohlins suspensions? Magnesium wheels? Full race ready CF fairing and race tail section? Gotta pay for that stuff. What does a mass produced Ducati 999R go for? That'd be a bit closer to apples to apples. Please do go tell Ducati that they are silly for selling their race bike for so much and that you can go buy a Japan Inc replica racer for $10K that makes the same or more HP
thansk for the moving target.. now the $10k replica has to have Ohlins?
that wasnt in the original question.
and it aint just liter bikes that are putting out 150hp numbers.
liter bikes put out 150 to the rear wheel, more at the crank.
have you seen the #;s of the new 600's? over 100hp at the rear wheel. Some a little more than that (depending on who's dyno you trust).
(Message edited by Choptop on January 25, 2006) |
Choptop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:56 pm: |
|
You've seen magnesium duplicates of Buell XB stock wheels before? Club racers have been able to get their hands on the Buell 8-pot ZTL caliper? Really? Try again amigo.
again... moving target.
One could indeed put mag, or carbon fiber wheels on an XB before.
Those particular parts.. like the 8 pot ZTL caliper? no.
something that does the job just as well? YES.
the point being.. the predictions of "...this bike is going to clean up cuz its all new and no one has ever had this kind of performace before...." are a little unfounded.
the performance has been out there, and parts to do it have been avail.
as ofr thhe comments about club racing... i was responding to those that predicted the demise of club racing SV650 riders due to the new Buell.
yer right, the XBRR is not aimed at club racers... thanks for making my point. |
Choptop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:07 pm: |
|
call it stink bombs all ya want...
my point is... predictions of granduer for the bike are premature, considering that Buells of similar performance #'s are out there.
the cool thing is... it comes direct from the factory, set up and ready to go.
way cool. |
Guzzimon
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
|
All I can say is that even the guys on the GUZZI sites are geeked about the XBRR!! Something about air-cooled pushrod motors that gets us going.
I have faith -- not BLIND faith -- in Erik & Co. It's gonna get interesting -- REAL interesting.
Daytonahhhhhhhh... |
Mutation_racer
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
|
choptop if you could afford the bike you would buy it .Im sure theres a really nice sv 650 with your name all over it . It looks a little like a buell doesn't it ha ha. STOP CRYING |
Hutch
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
|
Chop when I work on ducs the 998r was about 28,000 and you had to spend a nother 2500 on street parts to make it street legal. and if I remenber right the first 999r that came into the shop was a round 32,000 and came with all kinds of cool stuff, race only ecu and carbon fiber muffer. and the Hp at rear whell was close to 150 on or old dyno. the 200 race is 60% rider 20% bike 20% pit crew, but that is my opinion not the truth. |
Choptop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
|
Not crying at all. I already have a nice SV650 with my name on it, and a GSXR750 with my name on, and a Triumph with my name on it... lots of race bikes sitting in the garage with my name on it.
the point was... again for those predicting the demise of the SV650 at the club racing level becuase of the XBRR... that its just too expensive for a club racer.
thats all.
I wouldnt, and havent bought ANY brand of race bike that costs $31k... wouldnt be hard to do if I wanted to though. You can spend that much on nearly anything with all of the go fast bits the XBRR has on it.
man, ya'll couldnt find the point if it was shoved up yer... well.. anyway... hopefully you get the point. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:29 am: |
|
Nasty,
Not quite. What you saw was a prototype/development 8 pot caliper. Not the same animal as what we are seeing now. The prototype had problems and as far as I know, only two race teams ever tried the 8-pot caliper, Hal's and Kosko's racing in AMA FX. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:31 am: |
|
Josh,
I see Chop as wrong on many points of fact. That's all. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:44 am: |
|
"the point being.. the predictions of "...this bike is going to clean up cuz its all new and no one has ever had this kind of performace before...." are a little unfounded."
Right. I agree. Who said that? Shame on a Buell enthusiast for being so... enthused. The horror!
What's even more ridiculous is pretending to know the performance of the bike compared to prior Buell road racing machines.
The moving target is yours amigo, your theme being that the XBRR is too expensive since one can purchase a literbike repliracer for $10K. There's more to a racing machine than the engine and its HP. Thus the fallacy of your point. If that was not your point, I am sorry for misreading your comments.
I think you ought to study up a bit more on the XBRR before proclaiming it no better than prior racing Buells.
How many prior racing Buells set their rev limit at 8.5 grand?
How many had a 4"x3.125" bore and stroke?
So how exactly do you imagine the performance is no better than prior Buell road racing machines? Please explain. I don't see it. I see the EXACT opposite. |
|
XBRR Threads Consolidated Here! »
Secret Buell racer? »
Archive through January 26, 2006