| Author |
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Spike
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 10:48 pm: | 
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quote:
Now as for the 999R which is what you initially stated, you're not looking at the current model. If you do the math, looking at Peak Torque (in ft. Lbs)86.1 x RPM (listed for their HP figure)9750 then divide by 5252 you get - 159.83hp. Now, since PT is reached before redline, you figure some loss prior to reaching 9,750rpm and their claimed 150hp is quite reasonable, don't you think?
Well to be totally specific, the original poster that I was replying to referred to the base 999 and later referred to picking up a used one, so it wouldn't even be the more powerful '05 model, it would be the 124hp '03-'04 model. But you are correct, the current 999R is rated at 150hp. On the other hand, the '05 999R has a msrp of $29,995, only $1k below the XBRR price tag. When you consider that you can get the 150hp Ducati twin or the 150hp Buell twin for about the same price, the XBRR seems like a pretty good deal. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 01:28 am: |
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Matt,
" all the people I have spoken to involved in running 'factory' Buells last year would have liked to use twin discs but couldn't."
This is from your post above, and is a lie. First, there are no "factory" Buells, although Henry Duga has been known to help lots of folks at every level. Are they "factory" riders? As you know, you received a free engine from Buell when you were in desperate straits, overnighted to your door. There were no notes attached to it saying "Run ZTL or die!", now were there? Tell the truth for once. You can give all the reasons you want as to why you chose dual discs, but don't lie!
The fastest bikes in Thunderbike chose to run ZTL systems (and they had both types), and no, Eeeek, they are not forced to do so in any way. Nor do they get money from Buell, other than contingency winnings, and these are paid no matter what your bike configuration. So, the BS card won't work, only the facts will. |
Daman
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:10 am: |
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Hey maybe they took the battery out also or used a smaller battery because they dont need one for a starter, which might account for most of the weight reduction. |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 03:01 am: |
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I'll accept your statement as correct, Anony. There are some teams that need some correcting as they're telling a different story. Maybe they're pulling from the Biagi playbook and trying to blame their own deficiencies on a product instead of themselvs. Wouldn't be the first time.
Vik |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:09 am: |
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Anony,
This is from your post above, and is a lie.
If what I stated was a lie, then it was a lie told to me by the people that I spoke to, and these were the people that race at the highest level in the US. I have also been told by a major dealer in this country that if they wanted to race an XB they would 'have' to keep the stock brake. If I hadn't been told it I certainly wouldn't make it up and post it here. What I meant by 'factory' (note the inverted commas) was the top FX teams that receive factory support in a lot of areas.
Yes we did receive an engine from Buell, and as you know are eternally grateful to Erik, Henry and the rest of the factory for the sevice, passion and commitment that they have given us. In return we give the same passion and commitment back to Buell. Believe me if, as you seem to imply, it was just about making money from selling bike parts then we would be selling parts for Honzukawaha's instead of Buells.
You can give all the reasons you want as to why you chose dual discs, but don't lie!
I have told the complete truth as to why we ran the dual discs. The single disc just didn't work for us. Where is the lie in that? I have no axe to grind and don't need to BS.
That is the last that I will say on this subject. |
Jens
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 07:04 am: |
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Also my 2 cents about the ZTL.
Its always easyier to follow the bunch, what means in that case to swap for raceapplication to conventional double discbrakesystems.
We are running different XBīs, like the "Grey Fellow" or the XBK with stock ZTL caliper and disc on the track. With the "Shortstroke Attack" XB 12, our Teamrider Holger Turni have done the complete german "Pro Thunder" Raceseason in 2005 using a complete 100% stock ZTL setup and finished (in his first Raceseason!) 7th in the Division 2. In 2006 we start with Holger again in this Series (and also at the 1000Km of Hockenheim, 2nd rider Thommy Schuler), again with ZTL. On our ThunderBears Tubeframer we run conventional double disk so all in all I think we know what we are talking about staying 30-40 days per year on the racetrack, often (on Trackdays)with 10 and more of our XB customers.
http://www.hillbilly-motors.com/html/hillbilly-motors_racing.html
I donīt want to talk about the benefits in weight, rotating masses etc. that we all know. What I can say is that the ZTL is able to compete with other brakesystems. The problems we had were first the heat and second the stability of the stock caliper in hard race use. Against the heat we run perforated frontfenders and on some very hot "braketracks" a carbon airduct (was an XB rearfender in former live (- mounted to the axle and lowerforkend. Pictures about that under the link above.
Second point that the casted 2 piece caliper is not strong as it could be and not showing a so good heattransfer as it could be. So we are working on a own "CNCed out of af a bloc" monobloc 6 piston caliper, we will offer with european road homologation from
April 06. This will bring us, we hope, for the racetracks some benefits in the points of fading and travelling handpressure and reduce the brakepad use again. But the pads were never a problem for us.
The ZTL is standing now on the beginning of its possebilitys and it is from my point of view not a dead end.
Jens
www.hillbilly-motors.com |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 08:09 am: |
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>>>>only the facts will.
That'd completely screw up the internet.....imagine...having to deal with FACTS!
"Motorcycling racing is rivaled only by tales of military service and sexual exploits in it's ability to warp the truth to one's one viewpoint."
Court
01.7.06 |
Jens
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 08:30 am: |
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http://www.hillbilly-motors.com/assets/images/Brakescoop.jpg
Here a pic taken in 2004. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 09:23 pm: |
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Thanks for the heads up M1
Rocket |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:11 pm: |
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Trojan,
As stated before, it is a lie to say there were teams last year receiving money from Buell other than contingency anywhere.
And your dealer story?
What dealer would tell you such an absurdity? Lots of folks are racing with different brakes, so why would any dealer say they "weren't allowed to race a bike with modified brakes"? That's ridiculous. How would Buell stop them? Not deliver any more production bikes? Pull their franchise? How could anyone believe there was any truth in this?!
And, as stated before, I have no problem with the reasons you chose to run the brakes you sell, nor did I ever say that was a lie. I am saying you are lying when you say you know that the factory has been forcing teams to run ZTL. That is absolutely a lie.
Hillbilly-Motors's comments are dead on target, as one might expect from a company with well developed products. Heat is an issue, and the pads run on the Thunderbike class bikes were evolved to work under these conditions. No, they are not the same as stock, although stock work fine on the street. The scoop sounds like a great idea. And, yes, the stock ZTL caliper is not a stiff as say, radial Brembos. But the RR 8 piston is... |
Trojan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 05:39 am: |
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Trojan,
As stated before, it is a lie to say there were teams last year receiving money from Buell other than contingency anywhere.
And your dealer story?
What dealer would tell you such an absurdity? Lots of folks are racing with different brakes, so why would any dealer say they "weren't allowed to race a bike with modified brakes"? That's ridiculous. How would Buell stop them? Not deliver any more production bikes? Pull their franchise? How could anyone believe there was any truth in this?!
And, as stated before, I have no problem with the reasons you chose to run the brakes you sell, nor did I ever say that was a lie. I am saying you are lying when you say you know that the factory has been forcing teams to run ZTL. That is absolutely a lie.
I have never stated that teams received any money from Buell to run the ZTL brake. I have no reason to lie about things that I was told by people. What would I have to gain from it? Unlike you I do not hide behind an anonymous tag and am open for all to see. I will not however drag anyone else into this argument on a public forum who does not wish to speak for themselves.
I personally resent being called a liar for stating facts relayed to me in conversation.
What dealer would tell you such an absurdity?
Beleive me, if you want names, dates and times I can provide those if you want them. I will not however publish these on a public forum. Why would a respected and experienced racer tell me that if there wasn't a grain of truth in it?
I stand exactly by what has been said to me and when. I will not be called a liar by you regardless of your position, whatever it may be.
(Message edited by trojan on January 28, 2006) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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Why in the world would Matt lie?
He's one of the biggest Buell supporters around.
For him to lie (it seems to me), could cost him a lot, including business.
I trust Matt, I think we all should. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 09:41 am: |
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This really is out of order.
First off, I've never met Matt from Trojan. Never bought or done any business with him either. Never the less, he's a fellow Brit, and one that is a huge supporter of things Buell, from what I can gather of the man from reading here.
Whether Matt makes a living or not from working on or around Buells has no relevance to this damning conversation.
How can anonymous, presumably one senior member of the factory I'd assume, call Matt a liar and be allowed to get away with it? I've read this thread over and over and I just don't see where anyone can call Matt a liar with regard to this conversation.
There's another thing here too, and it appalls me to see it said from an anonymous source because of its obvious intention.........
Hillbilly-Motors comments are dead on target, as one might expect from a company with well developed products.
That's a kick in the teeth in my book, and a direct verbal challenge to the abilities of Matt's company. To offer up what seems like veiled favouritism is just cheap.
Let me tell you. Over here an Englishman's word is worth something. That worth comes from establishing a good reputation. I've seen Trojan grow from small Buell involvement to something really impressive over the years. Hard work I'd guess, and commitment to the product. So why would Matt need to lie when he's an avid fan of the bloody marque? I for one believe Matt is doing his level best to tell the story as truthfully as he possibly can. Bollocks to Buell, or anyone there, if they don't like what they hear from out in the field if it upsets their sensibilities. They should be shaking Matt's hand, or more appropriately perhaps, saluting him for his endeavours to forge the Buell marque firmly into the British racing scene!
Rocket |
Crusty
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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I don't care if Matt is English, French, Japanese, American or any other nationality. Anonymous is flat wrong in the way he treated him. If there was misinformation in his post, it should have been corrected, but to call anyone a liar is unacceptable. Especially when you consider that it's coming from someone who's hiding behind an anonymous label.
Incidentally, I can think of ways that the factory could punish a race team, without resorting to pulling franchises, or limiting availability of stock.
Matt and his company have proven their enthusiasm and support of Buells.
Anonymous owes Matt and the rest of us on this forum an apology. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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I for one believe Matt is doing his level best to tell the story as truthfully as he possibly can.
I for two!
Heh heh...Rocket said bollocks!
Matt and his company have proven their enthusiasm and support of Buells.
Yes! |
Davegess
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:36 am: |
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Seems to me Matt is reproting what others hav told him. They could simply be wrong. Sometimes passonate salesmanship is mistaken for pressure. I could could certinaly see Buell making a passonate attempt to convince someone to use the ZTL brake because they believe it to be better. Knowing how intense some of the folks can get I could see that someone might misunderstand this as being forced.
Matt, I think you need ot stop insisting that you know this for a fact IF wht you know is what someone else has told you happened. This is hearsay.
Anon could you apologize for calling him a liar? He may be passing on incorrect information but he is not making it up. Big difference.
Let's drop the topic then as we can get nowhere by having second and third parties arguing about what something they did not witness. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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Hi everyone this is Debbie, Matts wife. I may be classed as biased but enough is enough. I want to thank those that have shown support over matts comments. I live and support a man that has been if anything too open and honest at times. His support for Buells has sometimes got in the way of family stuff, so can have a justified gripe ocaisionally ; )) However one thing he has always been is truthful and sincere. If he has something to say its always backed up and meant to be constructive. We have both backed Buells from the very beginning. It wasnt easy either especially with the recall problems in Buells earlier history. To have someone call him a 'liar' on a public forum especially an anonymous one, shows the mettle of this person and he should be ashamed of himself.
It would be good to see a public apology please!
Then lets get on with enjoying Buells!!! Thats whats this forum is about and so are we!! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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OK. You're not a liar, Matt. I apologize. However you are passionately and repeatedly passing on hearsay as if it were the truth. Since I know differently, I find that offensive, as it portrays Buell as a domineering company that won't let people do what they want. Nothing could be further from the truth. Did we not give you free engine and support with no strings attached? Come on, now, we try our absolutely hardest to help privateers, and are well known for it. As Debbie says, let's get on with enjoying Buells, indeed, and stop attacking Buell. Matt, if you actually were told this stuff by some rider, considering your relationship with Erik and Henry, wouldn't it be best to confirm/tell them about this before posting it? |
Xlcr
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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No one can get nastier than me when I think someone is pulling my chain on line, but in this case I agree. Regardless of the ZTL's actual performance on the track, I feel sure that this is all far more of a misunderstanding than an attempt on anyone's part to deceive, and Trojan's support for the Buell brand should be fully appreciated. An apology would be in order.
EDIT: OK, that was fast. A bit stiff, perhaps, but a nod in the right direction.
(Message edited by xlcr on January 29, 2006) |
Davegess
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:03 pm: |
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OK this case is closed. Lets stop beating a dead horse. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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It was a bit out of line to call Matt a liar as he was just stating what he had heard from several sources.Maybe "misinformed" or "in your opinion, mistaken" but liar was out of line.
And in his defense,and as Vik also stated,I had heard the same rumblings at the races on the West Coast. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 02:43 pm: |
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Thanks Dave Gess.
Thanks Anony for apologizing; I can understand your frustration, and I hope Matt can too; I agree too that Matt is no liar. Neither are you.
Thanks Debbie for setting us straight. Us guys need that every now and again.
Matt and Debbie,
Please come to Daytona. I hear there will be some McWilliams character blasting around the place on a pretty new Buell race bike. Y'all have tax deductions for business travel, right? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Trojan
| | Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 04:41 pm: |
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Hi Guys, Debbie here again ( matts wife) I want to thank Anon for his apology, and please remind everyone including anon that discussion wether negative or positive is the point of forums and does not need to get personal, we are all on the same side and here for the same reason, LOVE OF BUELLS xx |
Jon
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 01:11 am: |
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I agree that we should not get personal, but also understand that when you or I spread second hand or inaccurate information on the internet, that is just as offensive and troubling as being called a liar. To Anony, the charge was very offensive as it was untrue. It was bound to light a fire with someone...and it did here.
Just because a person looses his temper and looks bad, doesn't mean he is wrong or lost the arguement.
I wouldn't want this discussion to end because Anony lost his temper, apologized, and everyone went home. That's not what the discussion is about. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 04:41 am: |
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OK this case is closed. Lets stop beating a dead horse. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:45 am: |
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That was not my intention either Jon.
Me personally, I just get sick from time to time of us Brit's been in the firing line.
I'm pleased anony put up an apology, but Matt has still be made to look somewhat the upstart in what started out as a genuine it seems, statement based on his personal experience. I never for a moment though Matt was fueling any fire. Nor should have anony or anyone else.
It's to bed now anyway.
Rocket |
Jon
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 03:01 pm: |
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Rocket,
I am personally prejudiced in favor of Brits (don't tell Norm) not against them. I'm a half Brit American and I just made the switch from coffee to Earl Grey tea.
I agree with you. And I don't think Matt was trying to fuel a fire, or cause a ruckus, etc. From my own limited experience with Trojan (non related to racing), I can state that they have some of the best aftermarket stuff for my X1 that I have seen. Matt has a little of my money now (unless he spent it smokes) and will have more in the near future. Top shelf stuff.
If this case is put to bed, dead horsed, closed, etc. Fine. But now that an apology has been made and mutual respect and has been renewed, the atmosphere is ripe for real discussion. Change of subject maybe, but talk on. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:28 pm: |
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Jon, I hope you take your Earl Grey without milk and sugar?
Thanks
Rocket |
Jon
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 09:50 pm: |
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Normally, I take it just like that. My doc says I have to back off sugar, so I am. |
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