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Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:47 am: | 
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The SV650 club racer is far more threatened by the new 650 Kawi than any Buell.
If Buell did come out with say a $12K XB9RR race kitted, fully faired, race ready machine, that might make a dent in the SV650 grid, IF, and that is a BIG if, they could get them to the grid under capable racers. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:10 am: |
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What I don't understand is this need for the XBRR to put a "dent" in the SV650's "rule" of club racing. There are plenty of bikes out there, including mine, that will wax a SV. Rider has a lot to do with it. That is a really stupid point/argument considering they would'nt even race each other in most classes. One reason the SV is so dominant is really because there are an @ss load of them out there, and they qualify for a ton of classes. Best bang for the buck type thing. Get real, head to head, a SV on steroids and a XBRR with equal riders?? Sorry, the SV stands NO chance. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 08:57 am: |
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>>>>stupid point/argument
Ahhhh....the basis of most internet discussions.
 |
Choptop
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 09:02 am: |
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What's even more ridiculous is pretending to know the performance of the bike compared to prior Buell road racing machines.
The moving target is yours amigo, your theme being that the XBRR is too expensive since one can purchase a literbike repliracer for $10K. There's more to a racing machine than the engine and its HP. Thus the fallacy of your point. If that was not your point, I am sorry for misreading your comments
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WTF?
You brought up litre bikes... not I.
someone mentioned other repli-racers and said the BUell XBRR will clean up on a $10k repli. Their claim, not mine. So they seem to claim to know the performance of the bike... was the YOU?
so if anyone is claiming to know how it performs... its you.
My caution is wait and see.
8500 rpm? ask Terry what they spin their Buell up to.
Ask Terry how many of these parts they have on the Vallejo Buell. Ask him the bore and stroke of his machine.
The point being... again.... there are racing Buells out there RIGHT now... Before the XBRR ... with similar performance #'s.
again... I have made the mistake a trying to discuss anything about Buells here at Badweb.
I will get nothing but slammed, even for making positive comments, so I will not bother anymore.
Please continue to slam me, and as I can see in other threads, conitnue to slam Trojan (I am probably one the Buells biggest fans, and always will be, but the day we are not allowed to make constructive criticism will be a very sad one indeed.)
Please take up slamming Terry as well. (cuz he said everything but the heads from the new XBRR have been avail to racers already.. short stroke crank, cases for larger bore....)
please do yer own studying... I have. The parts have been out there.
good day sir.
(Message edited by Choptop on January 26, 2006) |
CJXB
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:35 pm: |
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good day sir.
Wow, a pic of Fess from That 70's Show just popped into my head !! |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 04:25 pm: |
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"The point being... again.... there are racing Buells out there RIGHT now... Before the XBRR ... with similar performance #'s."
How do you possibly know this???
You imagine you are being "slammed" when you are simply being challenged. Sad to see you go. I'd rather talk bikes.
What size throttle bodies have prior Buell racing machines run? Why do you suppose the XBRR is fitted with 62mm throttle bodies? Cause it makes the same level of power?
If the XBRR doesn't make significantly better power, across the board than any prior competitive Buell road racing machine, I'll eat Rocket's hat dipped in olive oil.
Did you miss my offer on the wager regarding Buell racers? Gone quiet on that point eh? We have two right here in Kilgore, one in Houston, one in Austin, one in San Antonio, one in Shreveport, and some about to enter the fray from the Dallas area. I'd quickly lose count if I went outside the state, then of course there's the international contingent too. Come on, make a wager, what will it be Chopper man? A beer? |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:12 pm: |
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Wait a sec - I have been a club racer, and if there was time to toot my own horn it might be here. I was an expert in CCS and ran LW SS, LW SB, GT, and Twins. I had 72 hp or so, emulators, a penske, M4, rear sets, clip-ons, sharkskins. Maybe 8-9k in bike. I won a boatload of races, and started most from the 3rd wave as an amateur.
The SV's are still basically the same from the factory as they were then. Minor improvements for an HP or two.
If I could somehow race myself, I would kick my own ass with the XB over my racing SV, and price wise I would only have to pay 1-2k more to do it. I might get back on the track, in the same classes, against those same SV's but now all I am doing is Micron, ECM, filter, sharskinz. No rear sets needed, no clip ons, no penske, no emulators. Better handling, and over 25 more hp for maybe 2k more.
What am missing here? I wasn't referring to the RR cooking the SV's - I was referring to the current R. I was a fast SV racer, and now am saying I could be even faster on this bike (12R). What do the SV's have that allows them to outperform the XB's?
More power? Better handling? Brakes, - maybe - I have never tried to cook this ztl on a track. Better suspension - probably because the stock SV suspension is un-raceable, but upgrading the XB suspension is not going to be prohibitively expensive for a club racer.
I am frustrated because people are saying the R's can't handle the SV's so I feel I must be a major dope and missing something, What gives? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:25 pm: |
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The R's handle the SV's just fine . |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:35 pm: |
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Although I agree with you 2 on some points, you may want to look into a guy named Ed Key and his SV. |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:49 pm: |
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Yea, I don't know him or his bike, but if he consistently wins, its probably the guy, not the bike. There is a guy around here named Yakov that could probably beat most of us on a Hawk GT!
Unfortunately, same might be true in FX. If the bikes are even close it will come down to rider, and I am hoping we have some guy who happens to better than Duhamel, but those guys seem to be kinda rare, or taken already, or I just haven't heard of him. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:59 pm: |
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Ed's bike is barely an SV anymore. We have discussed it at length on other threads. It has C-f everywhere, including the gas tank. It has a proper ram air system (wrapped around the stock airbox to skirt the rules) Aluminum, and titanium fasteners anywhere he can get away with it. Lightened everything , upgraded suspension, Total loss ignition. Plus whatever motor mods that he won't discuss.
It is about as close as you could get to a works bike as a privateer. Ed has invested a HUGE amount of time and money in that bike.
It is not in the class of the $4-6k sv's mentioned earlier.
We used to run an 03 sv650. The xb12r is a better race bike. The fact that shortly after we started running the xb12r racebike, my brother (diablomichael) and I both bought xb9r's for the street if it gives you an idea of how impressed we were with the whole package. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:02 pm: |
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Oh yeah and Ed himself is just stupid fast. |
Thepup
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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Lets see a 1200 V-Twin against a 650 V-Twin,$10,995 vs $6495,I would hope it's a better race bike. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 09:07 pm: |
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The Buell contingency money may draw a lot of very capable riders to Buells from bikes like the SV this year. |
Kenneth
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 09:21 pm: |
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Some of you guys should look at last seasons Florida CCS race results. We have at least 5 and sometimes 8 or 9 xb's (some are 9's or at least not quite 12's) racing and they all hand it to the SV's every time they are on the track together. Oh yeah, and some of those SV's are under 300 lbs race ready |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 09:24 pm: |
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Based on my experience riding 3 different SV-650's, if you bought enough suspension for the SV to make it handle anywhere close to an XB, you would be up to at least $10000 and would still be way short on power.
Don't get me wrong, the SV-650 is a great cheap bike. I have, and will continue, to recommend them to riders seeking my advice.
The XB is a great bike period, no astrix, no fine print, no footnote.
I am far happier with my $8000 XB9sx then I would have been with a $3000 SV-650, so the math works for me. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
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Chop, you said that none of the club racers had access to the 8 pot ZTL? Sure did. Bilanski ran one all last year. Yes, it was a billet machined prototype. But he was runnin' it
Also, if all these parts were available, and performance was similar, why did Hals buy a couple of the RRs?
Was Hals not at the top of the heap, as far as the FX bikes were concerned to begin with? Why would they need to buy something like the RR? |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:51 pm: |
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Mr. Chairman I stand to a Point Of Order; My name has been used and I wish to respond.
* 8500 rpm? ask Terry what they spin their Buell up to.
* how many of these parts they have on the Vallejo Buell.
* Ask him the bore and stroke of his machine.
* Before the XBRR ... with similar performance #'s.
* he said everything but the heads from the new XBRR have
been avail to racers already
* short stroke crank, cases for larger bore....
We race in a class that goes head to head with 40 or so SV's and a few Honda 400-cc V4's. ... I don't think any of the top five bikes in the class are $10K machines. ... Those bikes run in the middle of the pack and would run there regardless of what brand they were. ... While there are Race Teams and builders who for several reasons keep everything a secret. .. At H-D Buell of Vallejo "We race what we sell and sell what we race." ... We want those who are interested know we can and will build anyone an AFM F4 Buell. ... There are three ways to get a Buell into the AFM F4 class, you can use an XB9 or XB12. ... The 12 is rev limited and the 9 can spin up to 8K+. ... We can offer three different stages of bikes. Stg 1 bikes could be run on the street but also for track days. ... Stg 2 for track days or racing to run in the middle of the pack. ... Stg 3 race only to run in the top ten depending on the rider. ... I think I stated that several of the parts we use have been available for Buell racers, but now they will be available from Buell. Almost every part on our bike can be purchased over the counter or on line. ... Here is what we have and it cost almost as much as the RR. ... Our ECM comes from Buell Racing and allows us to set the rev limiter. By using a shorter stroke we can go to 8K+, but needed heads and valves to handle that. ... Guess what we use the guy who makes some of the same RR parts, Brian at Rev Perf. ... The bike started life as a XB9 and meets the class limit. ... Our crank is an over the counter S&S. ... Heads barrels and pistons, 52-mm TB and swing arm conversion, all Brian at Rev Perf. Many of the small parts to make the race parts fit were done by Jerry at GP Wheel and Frame as well as Sam and I. ... We chose to use a GSXR 1000 front end set up by Aftershocks only because the brake parts are available at the track. ... This may change to as the new Buell front end and brakes become more available. ... Body work is from Hal's including induction system. ... Again my point is that with the release of the new bike many of these parts will now be available from the RR parts book. allowing any Buell racer to get parts easer. ... I do not believe there are any 10K bikes that can run and win in most racing classes. I am also not too sure how much it takes to win in the top end classes, but $30K for an out of the box bike that can run the banks of Daytona is a steal, and I wished we had bought one. ...Terry |
Nasty73z
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:23 am: |
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I too am a former SV rider/amatuer racer. Ran a few LW SS races. Had '03 SV650S, full M4, BMC air filter, custom dyno tuned map by a shop that races SV's, Penske rear, Traxxion-modified front end, woodcraft rearsets, Honda F3 rear wheel conversion, 520 chain/sprockets, sharkskinz, steering dampner, braided brake lines and race pads, etc.etc. Bike made 76rwhp. Was pretty fast, had a second place and a few thirds. Probably had $8K in the bike.
I PROMISE you that I am faster on my xb12, even with stock suspension (better fork oil). The handling difference between the two bikes is tremendous, anyone racing a fully prepped SV should ride a set-up Buell, they will be shocked. Brakes are probably the only thing that might be better on a racing sv compared to a Buell. I had mine lose some bite after some hard runs in the arkansas mountains, but I have heard that Lyndall pads help substantially.
The SV is a wonderful budget street bike, and a nice budget racing bike. That's it. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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Looks like McWilliams may be off the list of potential Buell racers.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=24899
Unless Daytona is a one-off. |
Diablomichael
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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I have raced both in the same year , There is not much of a difference . Both bikes have there strong points but are very very close in lap times. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 02:31 pm: |
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Scott,
One-off, yes. It's a done deal. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:23 pm: |
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Blake, since your in the know - is Pascal Picotte going to be racing the whole season? Or is he a one-off also? |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:52 pm: |
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How can that be? (similar lap times) Is the SV so dominant in the corners that on the straights the extra 25hp is negated? The torque alone would seam to make corner exit passing nearly effortless, and the exit carries down the whole straight - |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 04:53 pm: |
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One off. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 05:04 pm: |
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Mr_Cuell, talking with Dan Bilanski about a year ago. He said the SVs have better entry and mid corner speeds. But the XBs kill 'em comming out of the corners. |
Jscott
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 05:17 pm: |
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That's a shame about Picotte, I was hoping to be able to see him at Mid-Ohio. |
Jon
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 08:37 pm: |
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Hey Terry Parsley! This is Jon from ASBN. Could you please come to ASBN in February and tell us all you can about the new bike? You have the technical understanding and experience that makes your view point very valuable.
Please buzz me at (510) 305-6485 over the weekend or e-mail me.
I hope you can make it. |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 11:56 am: |
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Jon you have mail. ... As a XB race team member but not our rider, I will not argue with those who may have raced both. ... But our rider Shawn Reilly can, has and does pass SV's at will going in and passing on the brakes. Simply turning inside and taking a line they can not hold. In out first win of the season, it was a Honda V4 and not a SV that we need to pass for the win. That rider knew Shawn could turn inside so he over protected that line. Shawn shifted up one gear slammed the bike into the tire berm on the outside of the last turn, tucked in behind and drafted past at the finish.
My point is that even though this was our first season with the bikes gearing and having a few less that perfect starts. Our experience is that there are no other bike in our class that can turn with our Buell XB. ... The bikes at the top of FX class all have stuff that no one but a factory team can get, but I bet at Daytona we will see the Buell RR's taking and holding any line the rider wishes. ... Terry
(Message edited by buelldyno_guy on January 28, 2006) |
Jon
| | Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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Terry,
I don't have mail. Try this one, "jon at badweatherbikers dot com"
(Message edited by jon on January 28, 2006) |
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Secret Buell racer?
