| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Paul, Check the quick board. I think we discussed the Buell business situation in a topic there not too long ago. Ray makes a lot of sense, no matter which way we think the profit chart is heading, HD can easily maintain BMC at it's current size. Still, I cannot they aren't in it for the very long term. It is their signature way of doing business. Always has been, always will be. Why? It has pretty much always worked. HD is the ONLY motorcycle company with 100 or more years of continuous operations. | ||
| Court |
Can you say. . . . Aston-Martin, Jaguar, BMW Motorcycles......the list of companies, subsidized by the "Mother Ship" is long and contains some well known names. Call me a Keynsian Capitalist but I'd proffer that the good folks at Harley-Davidson are not "accidently diminishing shareholder value". Rich Teerlink, a veteran of Kawasaki, was the mind behind the saving of Harley-Davidson (see: Well Made in America) and is one of Buell's (joining a list that includes Jeff Bleustein) fans. Harley-Davidson has a glorious past and a promising future. Buell will play a key role. Few firms attract as many nay-sayers and wanna be prophets standing in the wings predicting their demise. It's akin to playing a lottery ticket, winning and then extolig "how" you did it. I've been the first to take the HD Corporate folks to task. There have been about 4 of them who have done some pretty slimy personal things to me in the last 7 years. This isn't personal and, to quote Todd Rundgren, "The Dream Goes on Forever". I have the luxury of being able to call them as I see them. When Buell stumbled in the handling of the recalls, my hand was the first to go up and cry foul. Some may recall it was me who sent the "you can't release these bikes for sale" memo to Jerry Wilke in 1999. Fact is, Buell has a purpose, Buell has vision and Buell will be part of Harley-Davidson's corporate stategy. It may not be the one we'd choose or follow, but I'd betcha Harley-Davidson is not bumbling blindly along, spending bucks and "hoping" things work out. Court | ||
| Bomber |
Blake although you're examples are correct, there are others that might not support your long-view opinion . . . .. HD was in the business of selling hi-po trikes (two in front, one in back, like a morgan) for a minute and a half . . . . didn't they have a motorhome business for a while . . . . .I know that these examples occured during the AMF days, but, if the AMF regime is gonna count towards the good things the mother company has done (like keep the doors open ), oughta work in the other direction as well, I'm thinkin that said, the questioning of "what is HD doing? they don't know what they're about!" muttering (not from you, Blake), it's clear what they're doing. Running a profitable business, and pretty darned nicely too . . . so long as Buell contribute to that enterprise to a level HD finds acceptable, Buell will be in busniess in it's present form. I, for one, am very glad HD bought out Buell. . . . . they're manufacturing muscle meant that I could afford my M2 . . . | ||
| Flapjack |
CaptPete, My emails on the fritz, must have been taken over by Buell. Email me at my sons bartm5672@sbcglobal.net I'll post my new address when it's up and running. Jack | ||
| Dynarider |
I have 3 words for those of you that think Harley knows what the hell they are doing with Buell. Chrome Heel Guards | ||
| Snail |
Blake, thanks for the suggestion, I found the "Do you like your Buell" thread in the quick board and noted predominent satisfaction with the bikes. That was what I was after, trying to determine if the loss of customer base was rampant. It would seem not. Paul | ||
| Mikej |
Naysayers can only be proven right or wrong after the fact. Same can be said of pie in the skyers. So in the end it all boils down to wait and see, or don't wait and see, or go to sea and go fishing or something. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Chrome Heel Guards Greg: Excellent point, but like the single piece of shot from a 12 Ga. shell that MISSES the duck, only a point. Fact is, some of the young myopic "my world goes no further than black leather halter tops" tunnel visioned Nancy Davidson Parts and Accessories group are unable to see past the forest, to the trees. In the same vein as the old saying, "When you are a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" they simply seek comfort in what had worked in the past. If you'd made $800,000,000 selling silly shirts last year, I'd bet my ass you'd do it again. But, to reuse the example from my well-worn Louis Rukeyser "Bureaucrats Hate Success" it's the narrow, and similarly myopic mind, which sees only Chrome Heel Guards while blind to Buell accomplishments. For starters, and to provide a flavor for the big picture, take $500 to a barn behind your house and try to do ANYTHING that will get you acquired by America's largest cash holding corporation in less than 10 years. Forbes and Institutional Investor are LOADED with amazing accounts of fabulously successful folks who've come up short of pulling off what Erik Buell has. Credit, dear friends, where credit is due. In addition, I'd submit that Buell is the Rodney Dangerfield (and not totally without merit) victim of the motorcycle industry. Had ANY company in the world done what Buell has with the radical engineering on the XB series they'd be lauded as exotic beyond the wildest imagination of the furthest out thinkers. The most amazing, along the lines of the Steve Jobs "Real Geniuses Ship" thinking is that I can haul my ass into a REAL dealership and BUY a REAL Buell. Granted, the XB hasn't yet raised to my "reach for the checkbook" level like the concept Honda and KTM Duke V-Twin (until I saw the styling) but Buell DID it while others were bumping and fumbling in the design studio. Credit, again, where credit is due. Chrome Heel Guards . . . . You’re right. There mere thought makes me puke. I hadn't gotten over axle covers yet. I'm going out on the line here and I am going to predict growth and prosperity for Buell and some astounding surprises. But..... I am not going, as some would seek to have us do, to base my opinions and respect for Buell on "a miracle to be named at a later date", I don't need to. It's too easy to say, "If you don't like Buell, the world's full of great motorcycles, go buy one". If you didn't have an interest and share at least some of the passion, you'd not be here. I'm unconvinced that folks waste much of their life simply stirring the pot to fuel adversity. I see some of the comments about Buell as the equivalent of "Erik...please show us some signs to keep our faith strong". I submit, that the XB, developed on the heels of adversity that knowing folks predicted would be the doom of Buell is a great start. Again, not checkbook fodder for me, but having closely examined one last week, I agree with the magazines "everything Erik Buell promised and more." I'm still getting over the days when the internet BEGGED, "Please Buell, if the bike isn't ready to be released at least show it to us, the faithful}/ They did only to be chastised for by the same crowd for not shipping until 6 months later. They did what owners ask and had the sword turned on them. As Harvard Business Review (June 2002) said "there are some things consumers THINK they want that, in fact, they don't". (loosely quoted from memory from the Customer Retention article. I recall the crux, but am not going to dig through the files to find it this morning) I suspect that folks at Buell and Harley-Davidson will see the foolhardiness of their ways in terms of Buell support. Buell parts and accessories have failed to give the foggiest hint that Buell knows who its customers are. Buell events have largely been organized events for generating body parts orders and what ever dials have been turned to adjust dealers, don't seem to be connected to an operating system. Harley-Davidson did not get where they are by assembling a large group of stupid people and doing stupid things on a large scale. They have proven to have the corporate chutzpah to take risks and fail. That brought folks like you and I linear accelerators, air travel and the Wham-O Slip 'N Slide. . . I want them on the edge taking risks. I'll take the stupid mistake in the mix. Had you gone to Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki 24 months ago (and I have friends who I dearly regard at these firms) and told them you were going to build a sportbike with a 52" wheelbase, you'd have been laughed out the door. Frankly, Buell did an innovative and ballsy thing. Credit where credit is due. Bottom line, I think they have some huge hurdles. You see the obvious, trust me there are at least 3 behind the scenes. You and I are friends of one mind. We both, as evidenced by this very discussion, desperately want Buell to survive and thrive. I hope that's what motivates what sometime appear to be "stick in the eye" comments. I try to operate from the assumption that, as Aaron says, all right minded folks "follow the light". Will it work? Who knows? Folks much smarter than you and I started packing their desk drawers at Ford after the Edsel. The 1963 Split Window 'Vette resulted in a fist fight in Chevy's styling studio over how stupid it looked and damn near lead to "bye bye Zora". I hope it works. I intend to overlook some of Buells stupid moves, as I do my children's, based on the theory that simply moving, progressing and striving for success sometimes yields less than gifted by products. I am proud to have a host of "stupid people tricks" on my resume'. Trust me, California has at least one "Court Created "Intelligent Highway System"" ..... that .... well ..... ISN'T. Well, this is my $0.02 and, having been labeled by the good folks at Harley-Davidson's P&A department as "the lunatic from Topeka" (and the bastards had the audacity to do it on a 94 minute collect call on Christmas Day in 1996) my opinion is worth what you paid to join this website. I do know that Buell has a new group of folks who are sizing up the very problems of defining who the Buell customer is and what they want. Let's hope, to quote James Taylor, they've "closed their mouths and opened their eyes". You asked........ Court | ||
| Imonabuss |
Dyna, I have three words for you think Harley-Davidson doesn't know what they are doing with Buell. Firebolt Wins Laconia Just because some idiot dealers want P&A parts in chrome doesn't mean Buell is on the wrong path. The Firebolt is the ultimate exhibit of what US technology can do with "antique" engine designs (kinda like Nascar, or Corvettes). Ya wanna know what question has the competition shaking after the Firebolt? What will Buell do when they decide to do a bike with modern engine technology? They've covered the folks who want to see the ultimate modernization of a Harley-Davidson KHK motor, what if they go after the folks who want OHC motors? Of course, Buell may not do that...but what if they did? I happen to know that Yamaha Motor Company bought the first Firebolt to come in at a West coast dealer, and paid a premium to get it. They have the respect. What's your problem? | ||
| Josh |
Uhm, I like the chrome heel guards. If it doesn't add weight, but does add a little styling I like it as an option. If my wife does talk herself into a XB9S, I'll bet she'll buy the little chrome knick-knacks just to make it a little different. Josh | ||
| Court |
>>>>I happen to know that Yamaha Motor Company bought the first Firebolt to come in at a West coast dealer, and paid a premium to get it. I love supply and demand (Thank you Adam Smith). They paid a premium to seize it from the hands of Honda America in Torrance, CA, would be my bet. By the way....I do not know this, but will be on the phone with Indian and Honda this afternoon.....let's see what they say.  | ||
| Sarodude |
Hey, I'm GLAD there's a Lunatic from Topeka here! Where else would I have gotten the idea to grease my cats? In all seriousness, Court, I've recently made some mistakes / decisions at my job that I'm trying DESPERATELY to view as Learning Opportunities. I DEFINITELY broke some eggs making this omlette. Anyway, it's always good to hear your Optimism. You truly see the silver lining... -Saro | ||
| Court |
>>>>>>Where else would I have gotten the idea to grease my cats? Sorry......that and the "Cat-A-Pult" patent I applied for were two of my dark moments in innovation.
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| José_Quiñones |
Firebolt wins Laconia........ Too bad NOBODY was there to see it or it was not shown on Speedvision......... What place did Eric Wood finish in In Mosport in Canada, in Road America, in Pocono? in Portland? Eric is very good, and he knows Loudon like the back of his hand, but when track knowlege advantage is taken away, the story changes. Will he race in Daytona next weekend? How many Lighning series guys will be in Daytona next weekend? | ||
| Dynarider |
Change of subject here, wow isnt that a suprise? Anyways I was at Milwaukee harley today & had my first chance to see & sit on the new Lightning. I like it, I know I have issues, many of them, with my present bike but I like the way this new bike looks. The wife doesnt like it, but oh well. The rear fender extension thingy isnt nearly as big & ugly in person. I like the front end treatment, looks very slick. The seating position is small, but not cramped, but it is a very narrow bike & this gives the appearance of it being smaller than it really is. The gauges are much better than the bolt. I was looking at the footpeg mounts & couldnt detect any difference between it & the bolt then the salesLADY Pointed out the pegs themselves are actually stepped down 1". If I hadnt of been told I dont think I would have noticed it. A very ez swap for you Bolt riders who want a slightly lower footpeg. | ||
| Hans |
Well spoken Court. I went out in the dark (already night here) to have a look at my M2, vaguely expecting to see a bright light around the bike. Nah, no sacred light, nothing of that, but the bike GREW half a foot ! Huge and proudly on its sidestand and winking as usual: "Take me for a ride." Hans. | ||
| Turnagain |
I have to agree with Hans -- nice writing, as usual, from Court. Was thinking you were writing a novel that one day be turned into a screen play. Now I see you're working on a documentary, sort of like the 'Civil War'.  Steve(2) | ||
| Ebear |
You know when you're standing up in front of the whole Company and you've just about summed up the whole project but you've stopped in mid sentence 'cause there is this "Perfect Word" you know would describe the entire Outcome ??But you cant quite remember it ??THATS why we have Court Canfield........He'll not only remember it but do it one better.....THANK YOU COURT !!! | ||
| Imonabuss |
Jose, Your comment completely misses the point. The Firebolt wasn't designed as a racebike, but it does a pretty good job with a derivative of the 1952 KHK motor, and it's damned well due to the chassis not the motor! And it's not just track knowledge, but handling. I mean, try these 4 words "Firebolt wins Laguna Seca"...and BTW, the Firebolt Pro Thunder bikes were 25HP down on the top Ducati. The motors don't make enough power to win on power tracks yet, but when they do... Bottom line: World class sportbike chassis design comes from the USA, but I guess that doesn't matter to you. If Buell had a Honda or Suzuki size budget, would you bet against them in racing? I'm sure you would Jose, but then again, you bet that the 2003 model dealer show would have a VR streetfighter, and mark the end of Buell... | ||
| Flapjack |
BLAKE, How did you do that chart? It' neat. Test results as shown are what I have. I contacted Comp Cams for clarification of sensor positioning but the person in charge is in England for a couple of weeks and will contact me when he returns. I would suspect that the EGT and ST sensors were located very close to the exit of the exhaust port because tests with thes sensors located further from the port show a noticable difference between coated and uncoated headers. | ||
| Flapjack |
Chrome Heel Guards Everyone has missed the point! Buell in there wisdom and with spot on market research knows knows tha we will not be able to ride with out chrome heel guards on our Buells. Chrome heel guards are only available for the XB series. So it follows that we will all sell our tube framers and run down to the Buell store, plunk down our money on a new XB with dealer installed CHROME HEEL GUARDS. The XB becomes an instant sales success and Buell lives happily after. Well anyway somebody missed the point. | ||
| Roc |
It seems like the Firebolts have been out long enough now so I have to ask, how tough are they when you drop them? Is the frame/gas tank pretty bullet proof or is it expensive and easy to damage? | ||
| Chainsaw |
Paul / Snail It is my belief that HD acquired BMC to get a younger demographic into the dealerships. Average HD rider is a 47 year old making $70k a year. It is in HD's best interest to get/keep BMC up and profitable, because the long term survival of HD in the next 10-20 years may very well depend on today's sport bike riders. Get those sportbike guys walk past big chrome cruisers every time they come in for parts, service, silly t-shirts, etc. Years later, when and if those guys are looking for a less radical bike the misses might let him buy, chances are he will be familiar with the HD bikes. Seems they could be grooming customers for the long term, in my opinion. What does this mean? I think Buell will survive. You don't need to sell 170,000 bikes to make a profit. Like those hippie jam bands with a small but loyal following. They may not have sold as many records as Boxcar Willie, but I bet they ain't driving around in an old Ford Pinto either! Anyway, hope you can make sense of this! ChainSaw | ||
| Chainsaw |
Roc: Dropped my Firebolt standing still in Wyoming (full story posted elsewhere here). Minor scratch on the mirror and front turn signal. Rear was cushioned by a tent strapped to the passenger footpeg. All things considered, it fared very well. I didn't have to replace a single part. (mine was the blue one at the Wilson's Ranch, I'm the guy that was in the orange Pascal Picotte jacket) I am looking to get frame sliders for it, just in case mean-old Mr. Gravity strikes again. ChainSaw | ||
| X1glider |
Pat what's your last name? I'm labeling the pictures I took. | ||
| Snail |
I was lost in the knowlege vault looking for the cross reference number for the '99 O2 sensor, can someone help me out? Beck Arnly or something like that? Help? Paul | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Had HD given Buell the VR1000 Budget after they got out, they would have done much better this year, with more bikes finishing races instead of leaving oil all over the track, and look real good with the big transporter, the pit bikes and the cool hospitality tent and expensive food..... Instead HD in their wisdom gave the money to Vance & Hines for their Vrod drag bike. This speaks volumes about what HD marketing thinks of the future of Buell...... No VR sport derivative this year? Like Red Sox fans always say, "wait till next year!" | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Bosh 12014 | ||
| Madduck |
Et al, Yet another of the fascinating bits of info floating around, one of the top selling accesories for BMW R series ( opposed twin ) is the "Chrome" head cover. Came stock on the R1200c and is selling well to all the others. Cool to see BMW owners convert to the chrome it crowd. Paul | ||
| Benm2 |
How do I get the *&^%*&(*& left-handed nut off the drive sprocket? I tried with the bike in gear (on a stand) AND jamming a piece of wood under the belt (to wedge between the belt & sprocket) and using a 1/2" ratchet with a 2' pipe on it and NOTHING! Before I try jamming something between the swingarm and the rearwheel, is there a better way? Ben |
