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Rtlll
Posted on Monday, September 16, 2019 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Anyone have any history on this S2 Racer for sale on Ebay ? Not mine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Buell-Thunderbolt/14 3384736059?hash=item216265713b:g:C~oAAOSwWmVdZZus

Thanks,

Rick
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K12pilot
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

NOT an S2..

Not original motor..

(Message edited by k12pilot on September 17, 2019)
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Hawgford
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL Looks like a bunch of leftover used parts thrown together, M2 frame, xb fork, etc. S2 motor,and the numbers ground off, fake stamped race use only, and sold as display.I bet theres no guts in the motor and the unfortunate owner now, is um,screwed..no race bike would have a stock carb,2 welded straps holding the whole exhaust,plastic rear mc/unprotected location, the big electric start battery,when theres no electric start,[no battery at all needed] and lol "clubman" bars.Just my .02 but no way should it be bought without tearing down motor to see if its all there....
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Donnylv
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi,
I am the owner of the racing Buell on Ebay. I think the motor is all together. I have not tried to open it. I do not think it is a fake stamp on the frame. I will get a photo and upload it. I logged onto another forum last week to try and find out more about the bike before I listed it but they told me to go here and I just received my permission to log into today. If you have any questions or want specific photos let me know. Thanks Donny
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Donnylv
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's the photo of the frame stamp.
Thanks Donny
picture of frame
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97bueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks to be a borla exhaust which didnt have much support anyway. Also is that bike from Bartel Harley Davidson. They have a race team, and do flat track now.
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Williamscottrobertson
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 - 09:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Stamp looks the similar to some “race use only” forks I saw pop up on eBay a couple years ago
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Gusm2
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 05:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Had to do a double take on the split link on the chain, somehow I doubt that tie wire would pass scrutineering for "racing".
Clubman race bike ? More like a Heinz special
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Bartimus
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looks more like a 96 or 97 S1 to me
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Screamer
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Judging by the EIN, I think the cases (if not the whole engine) is from an 883 Sportster.
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K12pilot
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I thought he "CAM" motors were crate motors...

Same as the ones Erik bought for the RS/RSS bikes... all of mine are "CAM"

IDK
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Screamer
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2019 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The engine number (EIN) was supposed to match the motorcycle VIN. I’d have to dig out a parts book from the solid mount Sportster engine era to be certain of the engine number code.
Unless my memory is incorrect (very possible), based on the EIN in the eBay ad, the “CA” is model type (XL883) the first “M” is the engine type (883), and the last six digits should match the last six digits of the motorcycle VIN. I can’t remember what the second “M” indicates, but it should also tie to the motorcycle VIN.
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4speeder
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2019 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well at least nobody has said that the belt is too tight........
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2019 - 08:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have an ROC/BOTT bike at the house. I'll look at it to compare markings tonight. I agree though, this is an S1, not an S2.

"RACE USE ONLY" is a valid neck stamp for factory race bikes. It might be an old ROC frame and bodywork (the number plates all look correct for a factory bike), with some sort of "a motor" hung in the frame for display. That definitely looks like an early-90s HD XL primary cover setup...I'll check the number sequencing on my ROC engine as well.

Factory bikes ran factory race exhaust, not Borla, and they ran the factory race hamcan intake (this has what looks to be the remains of a something aftermarket on it). Not to say this isn't a repurposed, actual race frame...but it doesn't appear to be a whole, complete, "factory race bike".

This is an original race bike, in as-raced paint and condition (other than the black chin spoiler):




Silver motor, black heads, factory black frame, factory race exhaust and intake, factory bars, factory tach, and factory belt drive.
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1313
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2019 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe,

I'd be amazed if the Battle of Champions bikes don't have the full VIN stamped in the frame (steering head tube). As well, I'd be amazed if the engines didn't have the Buell EIN.

The only place I recall seeimg race use only stamped was on parts that went out through Henry as race parts.

But 1998 was 21 years ago...
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Court
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2019 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>I'd be amazed if the Battle of Champions bikes don't have the full VIN stamped in the frame (steering head tube). As well, I'd be amazed if the engines didn't have the Buell EIN.

And you would . . . as expected . . . be correct.

RACE USE ONLY was limited to a number anecdotal tales and fewer motorcycles. We had to account for motorcycles that consumed time and resources. 1998 was an odd year with all the hoopla surrounding the introduction of the White Lightning. I saved ALL of the detailed build records and something (I'm not taking the time to dig through the Excell spreadsheet with thousands of lines) like the first 100 units were photo bikes, bikes made for Tech Pubs, a handful for Kennedy, Habbeger and Miller and we also built Buell for all the Harlet-Davidson District Managers that year.

RACE USE ONLY marking are possible, but . . . at least in my mind and memory, that would rule out ROC and toss it into the left over stuff that Jack gave to Henry that got morphed into goodwill stuff.

Purely a guess on my part . . . I'd defer to 1313 and Screamer for conformation or correction.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2019 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You probably have something there, Court and 1313...now that I actually put some thought into it, I believe the #63 bike does have an actual title...which means it would have to have a VIN.

Gives me an excuse to visit the warehouse tonight after work : )
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Ratbuell
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2019 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So, I checked last night. 63 does indeed have a normal VIN and a normal engine number.

I was trying to remember what I'd seen "race use only" stamped in, and the only thing I can think of was some of the XBRRs we ran at HDFR back in the day, or maybe the VRXSE Destroyers.
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99cyclone
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2019 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The "Race Use Only" stamp looks legit, matching the stamp in my well documented race bike (Henry Duga vouched for its authenticity).
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99cyclone
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2019 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



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Screamer
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2019 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From what I remember, other than some bikes built for “promotional” races like BOTT/ROC, no tube frame bikes were intentionally produced as “race-use-only” race bikes. There were bikes like cosmetically damaged demo bikes and bikes with similar histories, that would occasionally get sold to race teams, but they weren’t purpose-built race bikes.
Early on, there wasn’t a lot of structure, but eventually a solid process was developed for repurposing components (and occasionally bikes) for “race-use-only” - that was used by both H-D and Buell.
To generalize, components/hardware that didn’t meet cosmetic criteria, but were fully functional may have been repurposed as “race-use-only” and were hand stamped as such - and sold at an extremely discounted price to race teams only. Suspension components were the most common.
I’d have to research and verify the actual period, but there were also a few years when Buell sold the line of Tubeframe race products (exhaust/air cleaners/ECM) to the general public, but the parts were specifically promoted and sold as “race-use-only”.
Having said all of that, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some collaborations with dealers (Hal’s?) that generated a complete bike or two that later changed hands - billed as a “factory race bike”.
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99cyclone
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2019 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The frame on my race bike is most certainly not stock. There are some added braces and small modifications which Henry Duga vouched for (on a Buell letterhead no less).

You are correct in that component parts were sold at deep discount to racers, usually cosmetically damaged. My frame passed through Hals on its way to becoming a complete race bike.

(Message edited by 99cyclone on September 27, 2019)
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Screamer
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2019 - 12:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes.
have a new white M2 frame that has no VIN, but is stamped RACE USE ONLY. It was a frame that was produced to fill a dealer order to replace a damaged frame. The frame was a mistake, either it wasn’t supposed to be an M2 frame, or it was the wrong color - I can’t remember exactly what was done wrong with the frame. It was given to Henry Duga who called me and asked if I was interested. I bought it with intentions of using it for a Bonneville project but we ended using an X1 frame instead.
The point of this anecdote is that even though it was (and still is) a brand new frame with no VIN and stamped “race use only” - it was not produced with the intention of being sold as a “factory racing” frame. The frame became a race use only component due to a mistake being made somewhere in the ordering or fulfillment process.
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