| Author | Message | ||
     Missylou |
My Blast refuses to start when cold. This problem started this spring and I have done lots of things trying to get it going again. This spring it would start when cold or warm (hot) but after about 7+- miles it would sputter and die. It would restart somewhat but not really run again until it cooled. It tried to clean the carb thinking that was the trouble but it did not help. Then I took it to a local Harley repair guy. He also cleaned the carb assuming that was the issue. It was not but now it refuses to start when cold. Placing your hand over the intake would get it running but still after several miles it would quit. The boot has been replaced (twice) and made no difference at all. We finally found the problem with the quitting when hot problem, it was the ignition module. We (the mechanic and I) got the Blast started by manual choking with our hand and ran the bike until it quit. With the module cover/timing cover removed I sprayed the module with an inverted can of canned air, for dusting computers and such, which frosted the module and the Blast came back to life. Two hundred dollars later the module was replaced. Now the bike will run like it should without any of the quitting problems it had before. After trying everything we could think of, I ordered an auto enricher which I installed this morning and guess what. It refuses to start when cold. As a side note we also replaced the coil. Please give me some ideas on what to try next. I know it is strange that it would start when I took it to the mechanic so it must be something in the carburetor. Thanks for any and all suggestions in advance. | ||
| Bluv21 |
When you or the mechanic cleaned the carb, did you verify the float measurement according to the service manual? | ||
| Missylou |
Yes, he did. | ||
| Bluv21 |
When you installed the new module, did you verify the timing either statically or dynamically? (not sure if this is related to a cold start but its a good variable to rule out). Also did you adjust your idle speed screw at all? What about your idle mixture screw? 2.5 turns out? Are you sure the vaccum slide isn't pinched or torn? (Message edited by bluv21 on May 15, 2012) | ||
| Buellistic |
Bet the technician damaged the BEE's WAX in the AUTO. CHOKE ??? | ||
| Missylou |
Buellistic, I totally agree with that but it doesn't start with a new one either. My mechanic timed it when he installed the new module. I do believe the enricher was bad. The new one was visibly shorter than the old one. My understanding is that this carb adds fuel to richen the mixture as opposed to reducing the air via a butterfly. I drilled out the low speed jet and set it to 2 1/2 turns as suggested here also. It does have a 165 main jet and a 45 low speed jet with a Vance and Hines exhaust. This bike runs very sweetly once warmed up. Since the carb has already been dismantled several times, I gave it another shot. What was there to lose by trying once again to find a problem. I really found nothing wrong but when I reassembled it I did get the Blast to start. I am not getting too excited yet though. It was spitting and coughing but it did run long enough to warm up then take a ride this afternoon. I'm going to see if I can get it to start again tonight after it has cooled down and then in the morning. It should be about 60 degrees in the morning. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"I tried to clean the carb thinking that was the trouble but it did not help. Then I took it to a local Harley repair guy. He also cleaned the carb assuming that was the issue. " Shocker-it didnt help  Now we really dont know if you're still dealing with the old problem or created a new one Check the voltage to enrichener. I'm betting its fine, but thats the first place to start. There is a simple manual way to check enrichener function, I'll see if I can find it here on Badweb. Sorry, but I've beaten my head against the wall over this year after year. "give the carb a good cleaning" literally translates to: "I have no idea whats wrong, I hope this fixes it." The carb very rarely needs "a good cleaning". The carb is basically a sealed unit. Unless you got garbage in the tank, rolled it in mud, or ran it in some very, very dusty conditions, the carb is fine. If anything the slow jet will be clogged from sitting, but thats it. Taking the carb apart because it doesnt run right "to give it a good cleaning" is the same as pulling the engine apart, because you cant figure out whats wrong and hoping when you put it back together its fixed. Again, sorry, but apparently I'm not saying this enough. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
" Limelight Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 05:23 am: Easiest way to check the choke I have found is to remove the carb, remove the top cover, diaphram and spring/needle. You can see the choke plunger through a slit that is under the diaphram. Turn the key to the on position and watch the plunger for a few mins. You can see it move as the autochoke warms up. If it doesn't move, check for 12v at the harness. If you got 12v, autochoke is bad." I cant verify that the above method works, but it sounds simple enough. There is also another method or two out there. But realistically, without voltage the 'choke' should be closed. So voltage shouldnt matter. What I would suggest is unplugging the auto enricher and see what happens. Leave it unplugged for a 30 minute ride (providing it starts). See what happens. Everything points to the AE being your problem, but it could be electrical. Check for spark on a cold start. Pull the points/timing cover off and watch the LED. Oftentimes fuel problems will act like electrical problems and vise versa. Unplug the headlight too. The plug is about 6 inches along the wiring that comes right out of the headlight bucket. You can pull the fuse too, but you'd better have a spare handy because they break easy. At the risk of ticking you off, two people pulled the carb apart to "give it a good cleaning" hoping that would fix the problem. You might now have a serious vacuum leak, somewhere. A part may now be missing or loose. It'll run fine warm, but be a bear to start. | ||
| Ezblast |
lol - Concur! - and that is from an old offender of that rule! EZ | ||
| Missylou |
If I had read this first, I would not have taken the carb apart. Hind sight is such a wonderful thing. Too late to change that decision though. I believe the problem originally was the ignition module because the bike would start with no problem but it would start sputtering and quit after about 7 miles. It would do the same thing if you let it idle long enough also. Now it runs very well once warmed up. So I consider that to be fixed. When the diaphragm is removed the enricher is about 1/2 way open. Does anyone know if that is the way it should look? I really wish I had never touched the carb to begin with! It did not start this morning. I put the enrichner in the freezer for a few minutes and then put it back in the carb. It was completely open. It is about half way open at room temperature. Is this normal operation? I'm still working on this... | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I agree with you on the module. It was definitely bad. I'd have to do a Badweb search to find out about the enrichener (I havent run one in years). Did it start after you put it in the freezer? "Drilled out the low speed jet"-You mean you replaced it right? You do have the option of installing a #170 main (which it should be anyway) and a #48 slow jet and shimming the needle. Some would consider that perfect jetting, I would consider it a little on the rich side, but if you can hold your hand over the carb inlet and start the bike, it should be ready to go in a minute or two (and not stall). You've already had the carb apart enough now to be comfortable doing this. It might even solve your problem. If you havent already done so, learn to use the Badweb "search" feature. It will bring up tons of useful information. It usually what I do when someone has a question and I dont know the answer (or need a refresher). The only difference is I more so know what I'm looking for, or that it has been posted. | ||
| Missylou |
I had a thought that if the choke was not open enough then it would not be rich enough to start so I put the enricher in the freezer to get it wide open then reinstalled it and it will not start. If I partially block the carb intake to richen the mixture it will fire right off. It won't stay running without partially blocking the intake when cold. It will run very well when warm. I have sprayed carb cleaner through the opening where the enricher needle goes and the passage seems to be clear of any obstruction. I am very nearly out of ideas. I really thought that if I could get the enricher wide open it would start. Nope! | ||
| Missylou |
I meant I "drilled the slow speed adjust screw plug" to open it 2 1/2 turns as I read on this site. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Well, if the boot is good, the diaphragm is good and no one has drilled any holes in the slide, I'd say bump the jetting up per my previous post. A super lean Blast can run very well ( it's one of the symptoms of a boot gone bad) when warmed up. You are definitely too lean for running a V & H. My Blast with 'similar' jetting only needs the choke to start. Period. I'm certainly not the last word on carbs (pretty darn sure on the jetting though), so if anybody else wants too jump in?! Swamps usually good with the weird stuff too. | ||
| Buellistic |
Gearheaderika: Have you put the AUTO CHOKE TEST "INFO" in the correct area ??? | ||
| Missylou |
It would have been great to have known all these bits of information before but who reads the instructions? Since it would not start with the enricher completely open I started wondering how that could happen. Once again, I took the carb off and tried to figure out why it didn't seem to be getting enough fuel. I sprayed carb cleaner from the enricher jet back toward the bowl. I discovered that the fuel that is drawn up to the enricher is quite high in the bowl, meaning if the fuel level in the bowl was low, it would only draw more air, making the problem worse. I checked the float level (as I was already asked about but was told by my mechanic was right) and it was a bit off. I set it closer to the high fuel level and the Blast started. Before I get too excited I will check it again tonight and in the morning. I hope it wasn't just the 80 degree weather that made it start. I think it may be fixed because there was none of the popping and spitting that I had been having. I also verified that I had the proper voltage going to the enricher and I do. Once again my fingers are crossed. I will let you know. Thank you all for taking the time to help me with this trouble. It has been great! (Message edited by Missylou on May 16, 2012) | ||
| Missylou |
My bike started last night and this morning so I believe it is fixed. Finally! I seems the problem was low fuel level in the float bowl. I doubt I needed an enricher but I installed it anyway. I broke the old one trying to get it apart but that was after I ordered a new one so it really didn't matter. The ignition module was definitely bad and we ( my mechanic and I ) messed up the carb. My thought was that the bike was stored for several months with no sea foam or other treatment in the gas so it had to be the carb. I have heard from lots of people that this new ethanol gas is very bad for the fuel system and that seemed logical. Too bad I didn't read this forum before I started working on the bike. Let me thank those who have posted on this thread for taking the time to answer my questions. It was most helpful. I am very happy to have it running again. | ||
| Bluv21 |
Let it be known that I have finally contributed something to the fourm (because I am mostly a bottom feeder... like a crawfish)... Or it was a lucky guess... I'll go with the latter. I'm glad you got it fixed! The same thing happened to me. I took the carb to get the fuel inlet port and the vacuum port replaced and they said they cleaned it as well because the blast had been sitting for a while but when I got it back, the gasket on the float bowl was flat as a pancake (they should have replaced it) AND the float was ~0.1" off! (Message edited by bluv21 on May 17, 2012) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I'm pretty sure its not the first time Blu! Congrats on getting it running again  | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
PS You're still jetted too lean for a V & H (unless you're at 5000+ ft?). Listen for knock and ping. | ||
| Missylou |
New jets are on order and will be installed when they arrive. I'm no where close to 5,000 ft | ||
| Bluv21 |
Try not to disturb the float when you install them. | ||
| Missylou |
Bluv21, That is great advice. I will make every effort to leave it where it is. | ||
| Bluv21 |
After you install the jets, re verify the float measurement (per the manual) if you can. Just to make sure it is correct and you didn't alter it when you changed the jets before you put it all back together. It's a simple check and 2 extra minutes of labor is worth it. |
