|Posted on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 06:07 pm: ||
I've tried searching the Forum, but I'm an old-timer and know there's a more direct way to find the answer to this simple question:
Do the Uly's have the same wheelbase as the other XB's? (There's a reason I ask.) ;-}
|Posted on Friday, August 12, 2016 - 09:06 pm: ||
WOW . . . Talk about a living Buell legend!
What a joy to hear from you.
I **think** all the XB's have the same wheelbase but I am going to check with Froggy who is far more current on such things than I.
Sit tight . . . and we'll get you the solid information you need.
All the best Captain!
|Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 07:17 am: ||
The short answer is that no, the Ulys have a longer wheelbase than most of the other XBs. The Uly wheelbase is about 54", but since also the Lightning Long and STT use the same frame and swingarm as the Uly, they have similar length wheelbase. The rest of the XBs use a different frame and swingarm and have about a 52" wheelbase.
Xb12X 2006-07, 1,374 mm (54.1 inches), 08+ 1,372 mm (54.0 inches)
Xb12XT 1,369 mm (53.9 inches)
XB12SS/STT 1,372 mm (54.0 inches)
XB12R 1,321 mm (52.0 inches) (Same for the S, SX models)
XB9SL/XB12SCG 1,316 mm (51.8 inches)
Bikez.com has the detailed specs on nearly every Buell including the wheelbase, that's where I grabbed the numbers from. (Same data was on Buell.com years ago)
Edit: added more details
(Message edited by froggy on August 13, 2016)
|Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2016 - 11:10 am: ||
There is the most authoritative answer you can get.
Let me know if that answers your question and gets you what you need.
Great to hear from you!
|Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 11:59 am: ||
And the XT wheelbase "feels" a lot different then the X wheelbase, inspite of the XT just looking like a slightly lowered X.
|Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 12:45 pm: ||
Reep: A few more details please.
Captain: Any specifics we can provide that will help you?
|Posted on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 09:10 am: ||
It's weird, and I am trying to wrap my head around it.
The obvious parts are that the XT is lower. It doesn't look that much lower when you see it because it is still a big bike with lots of luggage. Even when both are side by side on stands they look similar. But when I sit on them, I can flat foot the XT easily, and the Uly has me on the balls of my feet, both with the tall seat.
This new to me XT also has Pirelli Angels, and I'm used to Michelin Pilot Road II's. I think the PR's are like the Dunlops, and tend to fall into corners. And the Angels are like the Metzler MEZ4's, where it is a nice linear lean in. So that is a big factor, but how much?
The XB12X with the PRII's is much like my 9sx was with the Scorpion Sync's. You push the bars to initiate a turn, and you have to keep a good pressure to keep it in the turn. You release the pressure, and it pops back upright and goes straight pretty quickly. The sportbike writers always complained about this, but I liked it, it felt athletic, and made quick transitions really nice, the bike would naturally leap from one turn to the opposite turn through a slalom.
The XB12X with the Angels "takes a set" through a turn. Very light bar effort leans it deep into a turn, and it pretty much just sits there until you apply a counter effort to stand it back up. Which is how many sportbikes act, and how a VStrom felt to me when I rode one (though the XT is head and shoulders above the Strom in handling).
The net effect is that when you fly to Texas to buy Mike's 30k but showroom new looking XT, and ride it for the first time turning right out of his driveway to go home, you do exactly what you don't want to do to not freak the poor guy out, and you over turn and have to dab a foot. So much for my pride.
It continued to be an adjustment for the 1200 mile ride home. I'd consistently lean into a turn smoothly, but then cut it a little sharp and have to adjust it back out a little. No problem, but it didn't yet have that "tip in smoothly, cut a single perfect and smooth arc through the turn that maximizes my sightlines at all points, then smoothly roll back to straight up and straight forward" zen I've worked hard on mastering on the other Buells I've owned.
Interestingly, part of my intuitive adjustment to the XT is that I've found myself just carrying higher corner speeds on the XT. Not overtly, just noticing the speedo on a corner I've been doing a few times a week for 10 years on Buells and noticing that I'm as chill as normal, but going faster then I was before.
The tires are for sure a factor. Just like they were with the D205's vs. the MEz4's.
But I start looking at details, and see that the wheelbase is just about identical between the X and XT, but the bike is lower, so the wheelbase should be shorter, so how the heck did that happen. Then I see postings about different triple tree clamps on the XT versus the X. And that be the realm of wizards, where I quickly descend into a fog lose my way
Some of you might remember the Mid Ohio inside pass day, where my Honda fan friend (who is a *very* good rider) brought a bunch of other Honda fans and demo'd the first XT's and the first 1125's available to the public. Bob liked the 1125's, but he was gushing about the XT, and at one point one of his Honda friends (also a good rider) on an 1125 trying to keep up with Bob on the XT lowsided the 1125 on the keyhole. Bob was riding hard, but not really pushing it, and loved the big bars and upright position and the thought of that kind of handling along with the ability to take a passenger and luggage (his wife enjoys riding with him).
I didn't get a chance to ride the XT that day, but had ridden the X, and just assumed they were the same. I chalked it up to "all Buells handle well, and Bob is a hell of a good rider". Bob *is* a hell of a good rider, but the XT is also a factor, the thing seems to really be effortlessly fast through turns.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why.
(Disclaimer 1... my "fast" isn't that "fast". I'd school a lot of literbike squids through a fast twisty road, but if you put somebody like JB2, Mike Breedlove, or Ferris on a cruiser, I'll be pressed to keep up with them. I'd be at the conservative back of the pack of a bunch of truly "fast guys", and have total peace with that. So a really fast rider on a sport bike could pass me like I am standing still... and somebody like Shelia Morena could probably lap me before I am out of pit row. So this is about safe sightlines and street conditions fast, not track fast, so take all of this with a grain of salt).
(Disclaimer 2... I am not saying the X handles badly, just different, and what it lacks in native speed through a street turn is nicely balanced by being able to blow over a speed bump at 30mph without even spilling your coffee... It's like a dual sport, you have to plan your turn for the suspension travel, but when you do, they can get through corners very nicely)
|Posted on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 10:32 pm: ||
The XT is lowered, as you note.
Fork spring rates are different.
Early (06) X models had single-rate springs; later models all had progressive rate springs.
I'm fairly certain that X and XT spring and valving rates are also specific to their model, due to the different ride heights and travel distances.
Lastly, there's the late-model tree change. Theory was the early turning circle was "too wide", and they wanted to add a few more degrees lock-to-lock...which meant offset trees and if you look at the forks, an offset axle placement. Minor changes physically, mainly rake/trail to make room for the turning span, but they made a noticeable difference in behavior.
Myself, I'm partial to my '06 with early trees, and '07 progressive rate springs (which help control brake dive without having to add too much preload). I loved my D616 tires but since they don't make 'em anymore (wish they'd bring back the tread design in a dual compound!)...I run PR4's now just like all my other Buells and all I have to do is think "turn"...and the bike does it.
If you're noticing a disconcerting difference in behavior...tweak the suspension settings. I'm willing to bet you can make either X or XT behave exactly the way you want it to, with nothing but the turn of a screw But, the same settings on each bike will give you different results. You're going to need different settings (due to different spring and valving rates), to achieve the same result.
|Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2016 - 08:07 pm: ||
The XT with the right susp. settings is incredible. Wet grass on the pavement in a corner was a controlled two wheel drift. Full throttle corners with the front wheel lifting was easy. Chicken stripes were gone the first week. The thing felt like it was on rails. 42,000 miles and 16 tires. There was always more in it's handling than I used. It was the best XB built. Man, I miss it.
|Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2016 - 04:48 am: ||
I've said it before, but I was amazed at the difference in handling between my X and my XT.
I didn't think the X was bad, and it's great fun bombing through speed bumps at 35 mph, but setting up the XT correctly and just riding comfortably through corners I have ridden all the time, I literally picked up 10 mph and still "feel" like I am going slower.
It doesn't have the kind of quick transitions my XB9SX had, but in terms of high speed sweepers, it locks down and holds a line like I can't believe.
I told the story before about our Buell inside pass track day at Mid Ohio where my Honda riding buddy (who was an experienced intermediate class track rider) jumped on a (then new) XT demo bike, and just rode it hard for chuckles. Another of his Honda buddies (another experienced rider) jumped on a demo 1125 and was behind him. For several laps, the 1125 guy was fighting to keep up with him, catching in the straights but loosing in the turns, until the 1125 lowsided trying to keep up through a corner.
I chalked it up as Bob just being a good rider, and the Uly being a good bike. That's true, but once I finally rode a dialed in stock XB12XT, I realized that this is a world class sportbike suspension, with excellent corner clearance, and the wide bars and upright position gains (in some areas) as much as they lose (in other areas). So on an intermediate level track day, an 1125 and an XB12XT aren't that far apart in terms of raw handling capability.