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Moxnix
| | Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 04:25 pm: | 
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If you wonder what happened to all the machine tools in the U.S. rust belt over the years, many were bought up as scrap and shipped to China from where they now produce motorcycle parts, as one example. A friend with a specialty tire company was able to get two tire building machines as scrap just before they went East to build May Pops in China. Just building new machines here would put some folk back to work if anyone ever wants to produce anything in our native country in the future. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 08:40 pm: |
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I would find it enlightening for Court to name some quality Chinese products. I've yet to encounter much that I consider quality, but I do try to buy USA-made where ever possible. Everything Chinese that I've examined had poor metallurgy, poor quality control, and it seems that every complex product from China is pirated from some other design.
"Oh yeah, suuuuure, this here Chinese Durt Byke actually uses a Genuine Honda Engine in it, and all Honda dealers can get parts for it!"
Perhaps New York gets a better line of Chinese Trash than the midwest.
I have minor issue with the 1125R because of it's........ummmm........"mixed" ethnicity, although I do think it's a fantastic machine, better (for most applications) than what the Big 4 build, a high-quality bike, etc. etc.
The bike is great, and no less than I'd expect from Buell and company. It's just not for me.
I would much much much prefer to buy something of European manufacture over anything of Asian descent (excluding possibly Japan) just by virtue of the centuries of European craftsmanship versus most of Asia's only relatively recent emergence (Thanks to US dollars, unfortunately) from the Stone Ages.
And I realize that China has made some great technological advances, and the last few hundred years are more of a "Dark Ages" as opposed to an Age of Ignorance. I think about it everytime I shoot guns. I just feel that political status has them making trash now.
And I find it hilarious to call the Japanese motorcycle companies the "Big" 4, for some reason. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 10:20 pm: |
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It's all yours, Court... |
Tcskeptic
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 12:55 am: |
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For anyone interested in one perspective on why low quality products may be more endemic in China that elsewhere, I would recommend "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler. One of the points he makes is that because China is a source for so much outsourced contract by contract manufacturing, the cost competition is beyond fierce. Contractors will do anything they need to to win a contract vs. dozens of other contractors all ready and willing to make the same product. Once the contract is given to the lowest bidder, at a cost the customer company should KNOW is impossible, the contract manufacturer begins a game of trying to squeeze out a profit slivers of penny at a time without getting busted by the contracting customer company. Both ends are clearly complicit in this practice. |
Old_man
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 01:00 am: |
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And good luck trying to sue them for any damages. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 01:16 am: |
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Court, I had to sit down and make a list of things that are good and from China. Here is what I came up with:
1, Buell XB/1125 rims
2, Jackie Chan
3, Sesame Chicken |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 11:27 am: |
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Jackie Chan is from Hong Kong, so that's, well.....Chinese. Sort of.
XB wheels....True.
I thought Sesame/cashew/General Tso's/etc Chicken were all American inventions? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 12:05 pm: |
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It tastes good so I don't care.  |
Ready2ride
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 06:53 am: |
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Chinese products can be good or bad, but in all cases, the Chinese are still Communists.
Had I seen the word CHINA on the wheels of my Uly prior buying it, I would have walked out the door and ridden the ol' Cyclone home. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 07:17 am: |
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>>>Had I seen the word CHINA on the wheels
I do understand but would caution you . . . . please don't snoop around under the hood of behind the dash of a Ford or a Corvette.
The Chinese are in fact communists and it bothers me that they own something love. . . America.
They own more real estate in New York City than Donald Trump and have loaned America more money, in fact about 3 times the largest amount of debt we have EVER carried since George Washington was President, in the last 90 days. We'll be paying billions of dollars A DAY to the Chinese in interest for the next 200 years so you are likely to see more of their stuff.
The Ulysses wheels are excellent products. |
Boltrider
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 01:38 pm: |
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Callaway, Titleist, Nike, Ping, and many other big names in golf realized several years ago that China was better at manufacturing than they were. When I say better, I mean that they could do it cheaper, they could do more of them, and the quality was very good. So now virtually every big-name golf club has its origins in China.
It's the knockoffs made by the smaller outfits that you have to watch for. That's where bad quality will show itself.
(Message edited by boltrider on May 28, 2009) |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 04:26 pm: |
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Id agree that part of the problem is the "knock off" firms.
Few folks realize how MUCH manufacturing goes on in China.
All of my guitars are made in America. . .Fender, Gibson and Martin and it used to be that the Epiphone and "off shore" brands were of poor quality.
Now (I do not know but am hearing from other players) it's almost impossible to distinguish, based on quality, a Chinese Epiphone Les Paul from a Bozeman, Montana Les Paul.
I retain a little of my "Buy American" so I have all Bozeman and Nashville Gibsons but am thinking, if just for the fun of it about trying an Epiphone Casino.
Riddle me this . . . I have been dying for an SG Standard to stoke some memories of when I bought my first Gibson in 1965.
If you had to choose between two IDENTICAL, save the name on the headstock, SG models . . . you would buy (Answer one only please)
Answer carefully . . .
Some folks commitment to "BUY AMERICAN" is like a prostitutes commitment to virtue . . . |
Ready2ride
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 08:47 pm: |
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Riddle me this . . . If you had to choose between two IDENTICAL, save the name on the headstock, SG models . . . you would buy (Answer one only please)
The EPIPHONE for $179.00.
The GIBSON for $2,000.00
Well for me, I don't know much about guitars. Riding and tinkering with motorcycles is what I do. I am not so much about "BUY AMERICAN" as I am "DON"T BUY COMMUNIST".
While the price difference stated above is extreme, I have made the choice many times over. I go out of my way at times to do what I think is the right thing. My motorcycles are from the USA and Germany. My riding gear is from USA, Italy, and Germany. My tools and work boots are USA. Given a choice, I choose USA. The really sad part is, sometimes you don't have a choice.
As far as the quality issue goes, I am sure they make some fine products, but, the ONLY reason a company has anything made in China is to make it as cheaply as possible.
My answer to the riddle? Pay for another year or two's subscription to XM and listen to someone play their guitar on my Delphi receiver.
But just so no one gets the wrong idea, I realize my choices alone are not going to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. I also must add that I am blessed enough to be able to afford to choose. Not everyone is... |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 09:17 pm: |
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And of course if you want to buy Delphi the guy you need to talk to is:
Bonup Industrial Co., Limited
Company Address: No. 2903, Block A, City e Lite, Bagua 2nd Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, China
City/Town: Shenzhen
Province/State: Guangdong
Country/Region: China
Zip/Postal Code: 518000
Phone Number: Please sign in to view contact details
Fax Number:
Homepage:
Mobile:
Contact Person (Department): Mr. Harrison Zhang(Import & Export Dept.)
. . . . .
Fact it . . . . "cheap" is too simple an answer and an easy out. Americans have the ability to shape the future of manufacturing.
Will we make it all? No, we simply don't have the sheer numbers. But, we can make the things we make the best in the world. We CAN. . once again . . make "MADE IN AMERICA" mean something beyond blind allegiance.
I can go into great detail but you can do no better than to read Erik's article in Forbes Magazine.
But . . . to do this we need to restore not quality . . . . quality is a by-product, an end result, the product of the process. No, what we need to do is to restore integrity, values and heart to the process. We need an environment like the one my Dad climbed poles in and the Ironworkers built the Empire State Building in . . . we need an environment driven by PRIDE not a sense of entitlement or "they owe me".
When we dispense with stuff like "for every 3 persons working, you must pay a non-working member to observe" . . when we are driven once again by pride I suspect American workers and industry will stand proud.
But . . . that's just me. . . . I'm old fashioned and when I do something I want "I built that" to mean . . . . "I built that better than anyone else in the world could".
Don't get me started.
>>>>But just so no one gets the wrong idea, I realize my choices alone are not going to make any difference
I disagree . . . . I submit everything we do makes a difference. We are the product, not the victims of both our action and inaction.
By the way . . . if you want to see a REAL American motorcycle you should see what I have sitting next to me. . . . every single part, piston, cases, body, seat and wheels made by hand by Craftsmen like the late Jim Lynn in Omaha, NE.
We are Americans . . the guys who hot rodded 1957 Chevy's and invented the computer. No one in the world can do what we can do. |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:59 pm: |
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The Chinese are capable of building and do build some very high-end and advanced technology products. Forged racing cranks and rod sets for small-block Fords for an example. Posh yachts for another.
The Chinese-made = junk association is driven by the insatiable US demand for low cost. American consumers are, well, cheap. And cheap = cheaply made in any language. The irony of this is that manufacturers, responding to rising costs in China, are moving production to Vietnam and Cambodia where lower labor and taxation costs are available. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 02:28 pm: |
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How long . . . Court wonders silently to himself . . . would these "cheap" manufacturers be in business if . . . when offered a similar products for 20% less . . . folks responded. . . "no thanks, I'm happy to pay the fair price for the quality".
One of the reasons there are folks making so much cheap crap is because there is a HUGE demand for it.
Toss that Seiko in the trash . . . buy a Rolex and LIVE YOUR VALUES.
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Ready2ride
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 09:12 pm: |
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And of course if you want to buy Delphi the guy you need to talk to is:
Bonup Industrial Co., Limited
Company Address: ... China
I think I saw that one coming...
How long . . . Court wonders silently to himself . . . would these "cheap" manufacturers be in business if . . . when offered a similar products for 20% less . . . folks responded. . . "no thanks, I'm happy to pay the fair price for the quality".
I think this is what upsets me most, many times we have no choice.
Don't get me started.
I think I better just go for a ride now... |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 11:12 pm: |
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You'll be happy to know that about 2 weeks ago . . . knowing that Irwin is ceasing American manufacture of VISE-GRIPS that I went all over to stock up.
On the shelves I found:
- Chinese made Vise-Grips
- "Assembled in America with foreign parts" Vise-Grips
- and . . the one's I was looking for that are being phased out stamped MADE IN USA.
I bought all of them.
I wonder what would happen, since they all cost the same, if folks would buy the MADE IN USA and pass on the others? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 01:21 am: |
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Court, I know I sure as hell would pick the made in USA ones, especially if they are equal priced. I recently picked up some socks at K-Mart, they had a couple bags of them on the rack, I grabbed a few, and noticed that some were labeled made in USA, while the others were made in Pakistan. Same price, same socks. Needless to say that one is a no brainer. Your situation with the guitar is tougher. How will the Chinese one hold up over time? Will the Gibson last 10 times longer or need less maintenance? Resale value? (I know nothing of guitars, just going out on a limb). Honestly I know I couldn't make that decision easily, but knowing nothing of the guitars I would end up with the cheap Chinese one, mostly because I know I will break it doing a wheelie. |
Rpm4x4
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 01:58 pm: |
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I don't really have a lot to add but I do look long and hard for the made in usa tag. If I can get what I want made in the usa I am willing to pay more if necessary. I also go out of my way to buy local. I even run my truck on 100% Bio diesel. Its not cheaper but it is either made by me or made locally from crops grown my local farmers. I have quite a few friends I have influenced to do the same also. Hopefully it will be a trend that takes off. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 10:42 pm: |
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I feel like an •••••••, yesterday I picked up my new Buell gloves, made in China. 
I had to special order them, if I saw the China tag on it before ordering one I would of looked elsewhere. Hopefully they hold up better than the Chinese made Alpinestar gloves I had before, lasted about a month before they really started falling apart. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2009 - 11:02 pm: |
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I've always bought Held gloves . . . I've just never had any others that felt very substantial. I just bought a pair of Aerostich calf skin ropers and am eager to work on getting them broken in.
I bought the Buell underseat bag and it never made it to the bike . . zipper ripped out the first time I went to use it.
That baby needs to go back to the dealer. I think it was Made in the USA but very poorly. |
Crusty
| | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 05:24 pm: |
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I've been using a pair of the Aerostitch Elkskin Ropers for a few years, now. They're very stout and durable. I think they're good for 100 thousand miles. If you want to see what they look like after around 60 or 70K , look me up at Homecoming. |
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