| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
Toona that's exactly what I was trying to get at! | ||
| Court |
Well said. Tell me, in this sea of negativity (not you, mind you) some of the elements of "treated fairly". Thank you for bringing the conversation back on track. Take a shot a couple from the dealer perspective and a couple from the corporate perspective please. No hurry. Think. Then write. | ||
| Court |
I'll start and this one would apply to both dealer and corp. I like to feel like my business is valued. My motorcycles are one of the most expensive things I buy. I know the dealer sees them everyday, but when mines in being worked on, it's a **big** deal to me. The last time my bike was at Liberty, and granted it was a bit of a crunch deal, I got a call from the fellow working on it daily with a status update. Less than 60 seconds, just a quick "hey, here's where I'm at". Even stuff you may not want to hear, in another context, can be made to sound good. . "the front brake checked out but there was something I just didn't like about it, so I'm going to take one more good look at it". The same thing to with Buell Customer Service. My time is valuable and important...at least to me. If you tell me you are going to call me back the next day. Call me. Even if it's to say "we don't know one more thing" it's as simple as keeping a promise and making me feel like I am important and you WANT to solve my problem. | ||
| Toona |
Let's see, from a dealer perspective: (i.e, the in between guy-between the customer and the MFG.) When I did appliance repair (for 18 yrs.) My customers expected to be treated fairly by: (Order of priority) 1) show up when the service call was scheduled -or call to notify of a delay/or reschedule. As Court stated, the customer's time is as valuable as the dealers time, but from different perspectives. Time is something we all don't get back, once it is passed, it is gone. 2) price of actual repair matches the given estimate (or even comes in less than estimate), OR notified of price increase before repairs are completed (after estimate was given)-this gives the customer the chance to "opt out", not be forced into paying for something they weren't expecting or couldn't afford at that time. 3) Customers look to the dealer as a source of information for options. To repair or not repair, options on replacement parts and what kind of "lifetime" each option would give. Most appliance customers don't know what parts are available. Buellers, at least BadWeB Buellers, are the minority. They/we know what options we have, who carries what parts we are looking for and in general, what the price will be. I'm sure there are more from the customer side, but here is one or two from the "dealer side": 1) Our time is valuable, like our customers. Please don't call 3 times a day asking how's my repair coming along. This goes back to the dealer keeping communication open to the customer. If the dealer doesn't/won't inform the customer what the status of repair is, they deserve to get "hounded". The more time "we" spend on the phone, the less time we have to do the repair. 2) Parts need to be available from the MFG, if not in stock. When I did appliance repairs, from past history, I knew what parts I needed to keep in the truck, what parts I could keep at the shop and what parts, i.e. expensive, I could get at the local parts supply quickly. It cost the dealer, or in my case-repairman, the return trip if I didn't have it with me. I liked to be able to "get in and get out". You can't do that if you don't have the parts on hand. In Buell's case, the service manager SHOULD be able to know what needs replaced on a regular basis and keep those parts on hand- tip over stuff, wear items -brakes, belts, bulbs, etc. Ground shipping isn't that expensive. If I needed to get something overnighted, my customer had the option of paying for the "convience factor". Otherwise, at the very minimum, the dealer should at least order parts once a week, if not 2 times a week-preferably that the delivery would come in before the weekend, not on Monday. Surely somewhere in the $60/hr + labor rate the dealer can absorb the shipping fee. If the ordered part will be installed by the customer, then the customer should pay for the shipping. I realize that there is a fine line between what should be stocked and what shouldn't be. In the appl. industry, the parts catalog has a "legend" "A" parts are very fast moving, "B" parts average moving, "C" occasional parts moving etc. So maybe, the customer shouldn't pay for "A" or "B" parts shipping, because they should be at the dealer, but should pay for shipping for the "C" and below parts. WOW, sorry for the long post, so I'll stop for now and think on the Corporate/MFG side. That's the side I'm on now with my current business. Dan | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Here's what my customers expect of me: 1) To know every aspect of my products. To know enough about my competitor's products to know why my products are better or not as good. To seek to know more than anyone that might ask a question of me. To continually seek to gain more expertise on my products, to never be satisfied with what I currently know. 2) To have the ability to use my knowledge of my products to solve problems and meet needs. To be able to troubleshoot problems accurately or use my products to accurately meet needs. To be able to troubleshoot and access needs quickly. To know when the problem or need exceeds my ability to fulfill it. To be willing to seek outside help when my troubleshooting and needs meeting abilities have been exceeded. 3) To be able to communicate about the product, the problem, and the solution in a manner that is easy to understand. To welcome questions as a desire to understand the products, the problem, and the solution better and not see questions as an affront to my knowledge. To communicate responsively rather than reactively. To communicate in the time horizon promised. To fulfill promises or communicate that the fulfillment will be delayed AND what course of action is being taken to solve the problem. 4) To seek to do what is right not just what is profitable. To seek that which is best and most fair for all not just what is best or easiest for me. To stand by my statements and actions. To seek relationships with my clients that are lifelong rather than deal long. To work to build not only recurring customers but referring customers. To seek to create raving fans. 5) To listen to the needs of my customers not just about my products but in the delivery of those products. To seek to understand how to deliver my products in the manner that best suits my clients needs rather than just what is easiest for me. To seek to make my delivery match my customers rather than make my customers match my delivery. 6) To seek to serve customers that are not yet customers. To continually ask "who is not using my products who should be" and "what would I need to do to make those who are not using my products, use them". To never be satisfied with the customers in hand but continually seeking to expand my customer base. For my customers, price for my services is rarely an issue. There are always places to receive what I do less expensively, but virtually never is there the opportunity to receive the product delivery I offer. I always seek to provide my services at a fair price for all, but expect that my services come with a fair cost. I deliver what is promised and my customers get what they pay for. If I scrimp on my services, my customers expect to pay less and will continually push to reach equilibrium between what they perceive as a fair price for "lesser" products delivered, or they will seek my competitor. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Toona hit most of it on the head. For most of the customers their motorcycle is the most expensive luxury item they own. Except for a very few their motorcycle is not primary transportation. They own the motorcycle as a means of relaxation. When in communication with the dealer every customer wants to feel special, like they are the most important person there. They don't want to be treated like a second class citizen, or as if their bike isn't important enough for there to be only one (over-booked) tech qualified to work on it. Parts should only take more than 2 days to get in the very rarest of cases. holding up an order until it hits a certain dollar figure is not a way to keep customers. For most Buell riders a 2 week delay is normal for almost any Buell part at present. Assuming they don't order from DaveS  I know that in the current scheme of things no one keeps large stocks of parts on hand for fear of paying taxes on them more than once if January inventory catches it still on the shelf. Customers in all areas have come to expect delays for parts, but that is not an excuse for a lack of "tip over" parts. BMC should mandate a minimum stock to be kept on the shelf in order to maintain status as a dealer. It should be spot checked. Things like levers, mirrors, turn signals, foot pegs and controls, belts, you get the picture. This stuff should always be in inventory, unless it was just sold the day or two before (with proper paperwork and replacements on order). The dealers have no problem stocking similar parts and shiny chrome alternatives for their H-D customers. Communication is key. Keeping the customer informed keeps the customer from being hostile. Even if it's just to say "you moved up 3 places in line for repairs today" It helps the customer feel more at ease. I have never had a negative dealing with the factory. So I have no frame of reference for constructive comments there. Henry Duga has been my most regular contact with BMC and he does an awesome job in his capacity with Buell racing. With him as my bell-weather and my visits to the factory  I have no issues with corporate. | ||
| Jlnance |
1) show up when the service call was scheduled Amen It amazes me, that when I try and get people to work on my house, how difficult it is for them to show up on time. I think you could get rich doing home repair if your only skill was never being late. | ||
| Daves |
showing up on time works both ways. One of my pet peeves is when I make an appointment with a customer to come in, whether to buy a bike or take delivery. I would say that only about 25% come on time. Of course, the others come whenever they feel like it, even a day or two early in some cases and then of course expect me to drop what I am doing and take care of them. Or, worse yet, they just grab whoever isn't busy(and that rarely is me) and buy the bike from them. So there goes all my work and effort on their deal out the window, and gives the other salesperson an easy deal. Some don't know any better, they think it is WalMart where everyone works by the hour,others just don't care. Really pisses me off. | ||
| Swampy |
Customer Service. Daves is nobody special, anybody can do what he is doing........ Its just that nobody does! Thanks Daves for being YOU! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Dave, Completely agree. | ||
| Swampy |
Court, you posted? I must have missed it: This is a tough week at Buell.(one of the long time Buell folks was seriously injured in a motorcycle accident several weeks ago, some of you may recall when I issued a plea for a badwebber in Michigan...apparently we had none. Is it all too late? | ||
| Daves |
Thanks Swampy You are right. There is no magic wand. You just gotta wanna | ||
| Davegess |
Is it all too late? The elf is home. Court was actually looking for a Yupper as he wanted someone in the UP. Suspect Buellers are a bit thin on the ground up there. | ||
| Oldog |
I have a question / suggestion [ not entirely related to the current topic sorry, ] some one put forward that the shop manual and parts manual should be combined I agree. When purchasing a shop/parts manual could a subscription service be available for up dates, buy the manual in loose leaf binder with parts manual its X dollars, buy it with "life time" updates an a copy of the owners manual its y dollars, access to all related service bullitons are included at Y$ I would like to SEE an electronic manual say in pdf format so I could print the relevant pages put them on a clip board when working on the bike, and if trashed no big deal. I think that it might help some of the quality problems the dealers experience. New to buell harley techs could get the procedures in hand in writing no worries about trashing a 70$ shop manual if they discover a problem they can make notes on the doc and deal with it later. Also for the electronic parts book, get updates by e-mail I understand that piracy is an issue I bet that its possible to serial and ident each copy I just discovered several issues with my new parts book. Its tough to be an informed and knowledgable customer with out good information. For example I am planning to replace the front isolator on my bike. The dealer AND I missed the change/no change info, Had I NOT CAUGHT that there was an issue with the part # while searching the BadWeb KV I would have wrongly assumed Dealer error. Another problem is in my mind that the info did not get to my hands so I could not ask for the correct part, and it was also not clear to the dealer so if they are plugged into some kind of "harley / buell net" the info may not be there for them either. The dealer is a sponsor with an excellent rep for on time as promised, even with the parts book about 1/2 of the numbers on the front forks in my copy are now "superceeded" and it made a simple parts order much more time consuming for us both. I think that its important almost as much as the quick call on progress. | ||
| Bomber |
combining service and parts books is tough, in hardcopy -- e-versions would make it much easier, though more expensive to keep up to date -- as with anything else, no company is going to do anything without some view of profit to accrue from it (nothing at all wrong with that) -- piracy is one issue, certainly, although one that is overcomable (izzat a word?) -- pdf/html versions (with hotlinks to relevant part numbers/torque values et al) is easily achievable, and far from leading edge, but, again, given that folks balk at 70 for hardcopy, I would guess that the factory isn't real interested in developing a product that would likely never pay for itself in anyting except customer satisfaction (and those particular customers would tend to keep their bikes longer, perhaps not purchasing new ones?) . . . . . . . part number updates are a thorny issue in any hardware product -- add an additional channel in the communication stream (manufacturer to dealer to end user customer and back again), and its a wonder things work as well as they do, I'm thinkin still, a great idea, one that I would certainly laud, and be will to pay well into three figures for -- you? | ||
| Loki |
At least put the parts manuals on the website that the registered owners can access. -in pdf format allowing the end user to print the specific page being viewed (I know bandwidth use heavy) -downloadable pdf files | ||
| Bullseye |
The H-D Store should have clued me to their intentions. I went to the open house to get service manuals and a parts book. I had to order them and I expected so, no biggie. However, I really wanted to sit on a Uly, get some info on the TT, socialize with the motorcycle community. They were very busy but there were alot of salespeople on the floor, and in the parking lot. The Uly was next to a Firebolt in front of the main entrance, tagged and probably from the rental fleet, no new ones inside. I looked around for a bit ordered the manuals, checked out the clothing building etc. While looking at a CityX a salesman finally asked if I wanted any help. I asked if they had a Uly to sit on and he looked around a little and said "no". I asked about the one right out the front door and he said there was a waiting list to rent it and no one was taking it out cause of the open house. I don't want to ride only SIT. He did say they had a black one due in a week or so. I figured I would go back when they weren't so busy. The manuals came in and I decided the weather was nice and rode the M2 over there. Maybe I'd get a little respect if I showed up on a bike instead of in the family mobile, no dice. Took about 10 mins of looking at the same CityX to get a different salesman to stop socializing and acknowledge me. I asked about the Uly gain and like heaven knew my dilemma it pulled in from someone renting it, parked near my bike. Asked if I could sit on it, DENIED. He said they had to check it over and prep it for the next person, too bad so sad. I asked about the black one and it was in but not set up yet, (ie. parked out in the service isle) so noone could look at it. I'm really feeling neglected now when right in the middle of conversation he looks over my shoulder at someone looking at a HD and excused himself by handing me his card and requesting I call him to see if something comes in for me. He even wanted to know if I was ready to step up to a Dyna or Soft tail yet. WTF, I'm standing in the "Buell" section holding my Buell key asking Buell questions and now I know why there is so much complaining about customer service. I am in the market for a Blast for my wife and maybe something newer for myself but short of looking at pictures online I can't get near one. I did find out that they will be selling off the Blast fleet soon for a great $200 to $300 off of sticker if I really want a deal. $3800 for a used blast that spent its life as a training mule is no deal. Specially from a dealer that doesn't care. Maybe I'll get out to Frederick HD/Buell soon and get some better service, or I'll write this all over again about them. Then its out to Annapolis, or Northern VA. What a pain. Sorry about the rant but running customers out can't be good for business. I guess I'll start looking used again or just wait till the motorcycle show comes around. Thanks for listening even if there is nothing to be done about bad salespeople. Bullseye | ||
| Tunes |
HD casts a long shadow. HD's have been around a lot longer than Buell and all of these dealers are now selling a "new" (to them) motorcycle. For the most part, they don't understand the Buell customer... and some salemen don't give a &^$# about Buells. When a saleman ignores me or drops me for an HD customer, I get in their face. I tell them I was the customer they were dealing with first, please tell me where the owner is so I can tell him of the service you have provided. I have also noticed that most of these salemen don't last very long either. Consistent customer service would be nice. Some dealers have this covered... some struggle. Question Court: Do potential (and current) dealers receive any schooling/training from HD/Buell about how HD/Buell wants their dealers to run their dealerships? What I'm getting at is; customer service, salesmanship, displays, repairs, how to run ads, how to hire and keep good employees, etc... stuff like that. Is this type of training available at Dealership Meetings? It couldn't hurt. For some dealerships, ANY help would be an improvement. Sorry 'bout the wandering. This is a many layered issue. You can't isolate one function without bringing up and affecting another. A general improvement in attitude would be a good place to start for HD/Buell dealers... like how to treat ALL customers. I'm not including the many exceptional individuals we have here, of course. And rude customers don't help the attitudes... | ||
| Bullseye |
That was fast. This afternoon the manager of The HD Store contacted me. Pretty impressive since there isn't a lot of direct info in the rant above. I guess not too many M2 manuals go in and out of there. We had a very cordial conversation about my experience and a little background on the salesman I was dealing with. He seemed like a very nice, easy-to-deal-with person. He appeared to want to make things right after reading my statement above. It turns out his brother was the counter person that ordered my manuals during the open house. Let me say I was impressed to see a burly man in a Harley uniform take a few minuted out of an obviously busy day to acknowledge and talk to my 1 year old son (and by talk to I mean talk at, my son may be a genius but he can't talk yet). It is very clear that he is in the business of customer service and is willing to deal with me personally if necessary to see that I get on a Uly. I have no doubt that the next time I enter that dealer I will sit on one. Without picking apart every time I've been there I want to say that not every aspect of my dealings with The HD Store has been bad. Its easy to focus on the bad things and rant and rave to your hearts content for the sake of being heard, but ignoring the positive is quite unfair. The dealer is clean, inviting, stuffed with motorcycles new and used, stocked with tons of accessories, and they have an entire separate building just for clothing. It only took 3 days to order my manuals when I was told it would take 7-10, and I got 15% off of a special order item. Its unfair of me to generalize the dealer based on one salesperson. I hope this experience leads to further education of the sales staff at The HD Store and I will take my lessons from the service I received from the manager. I will return for a sit on the Uly when my busy Christmas schedule permits and hopefully I'll get the chance to look at other bikes there for family and myself. I look forward to getting the parts for my impending rebuild through them based on my previous encounter and hope to build a good relationship with the staff there. I don't want to be the guy everyone has to be nice to so I don't go blabbin on the internet. I consider the issue resolved on the dealer end and as stated before I will go there in the future. | ||
| Naustin |
Glad they made it right for you. It says a lot that they called you up and made the effort and that you were personally impressed enough to come back here and write a positive post for them. Sounds like they will get it right the first time from now on.  | ||
| Daves |
Sometimes, the best customer service shows up after something doesn't go as planned. Glad they are taking care of you. | ||
| Red_chili |
The willingness to say "I'm sorry, it was my mistake, and what do I need to do to make it right?" is the hardest part... and the easiest solution. | ||
| Court |
I am getting the "gold standard" lesson in customer service this morning. . . if you want to see GROSS EXCESS take a new Mercedes-Benz in for the first service at a place that sells something like 50 of them a day! This is a bit "over the top". Scary to be sitting in line with TWO of these in line behind you . . . note to self. . .do NOT back up . . do NOT back up.   | ||
| Thespive |
You and Paris, Court. --Sean | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
classy girl that paris | ||
| Court |
>>>>classy girl that paris She is and remind me to tell you about he fixation on Ed, the drummer in Erik's bad, the night they made the appearance at the Hard Rock in Times Square. She couldn't take here eyes off him  | ||
| Thespive |
I sat next to her on a flight to London, she couldn't keep her eyes on me! Wait, er.... --Sean | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
She is and remind me to tell you about he fixation on Ed, the drummer in Erik's bad, the night they made the appearance at the Hard Rock in Times Square. She couldn't take here eyes off him She was probably imagining what he'd look like in a low quality bootleg video streamed over the internet to her cell phone. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
this tread is about CUSTOMER SERVICE lessons learned in the real world. I can explain this with just two words! Dave Stueve | ||
| Court |
I think I have something that warrants updating this thread. The other day my wife's car had a headlight go out. A vehicle, she tells me, with a burned out headlight, can be unsafe to operate and she often leaves her Manhattan office after 8:00PM. So I offered to drop her off at work today and take the car to the dealer. I expected, without an appointment to fall victim to taking what I could get. But I had a 2" thick contract that needs read and reviewed by Friday and a Thursday afternoon mid-term to study for so I was in no hurry. I also know that one of the best restaurants in New Jersey is the waiting area (also likely one of the plushest places in the state) of the Ray Catena Mercedes-Porsche-Aston Martin-Maybach dealership. In the mornings they have a variety of coffees, teas, fresh pastries and fruits . . . long about 11:30AM they start in with a heck of a selection of sandwiches and so forth. The entire area is covered with pool tables, work stations with high speed access and a spattering of spiffy things to sit in . . . sitting in a 911 Turbo makes it fun to do homework. My point is that they make having something go wrong an absolute delight. The surroundings aren't so much lush as it is the way the way they conspire to make a customer feel VERY IMPORTANT. They treat me and my time as if I have value. So I roll in the drive . . . as you turn off the highway the 40' wide overhead door opens to allow you to pull into the spectacular service writer’s area. I pull in . . . tell the guy that I've a headlight out and that I am in absolutely no hurry, realize it's noon and they likely have folks off to lunch. Frankly, I'm looking for reasons to sit in my next car and start playing with the knobs. He never asks my name. . . there's no voir doir, no "how'd it happen?" or any silliness. He is a Customer Service guy . . he has TWO METRICS. . . CUSTOMER and SERVICE. . that is his world. So I go in . . hit the badweb search function and I'll be an SOB no sooner do the list of posts since my last visit pop up that he's standing there . . .. "Sir, your car is done, it's been washed and is on the drive". Bear in mind, the total time elapsed is less than So, rather than walk to the drive I walk to his desk and ask him "what do I owe you?". His response "nothing. . . you drove 20 miles here, there is no charge. We're pleased you chose Mercedes-Benz and Ray Catena." Don't toy with me . . . I know it's not in warranty and that a headlight bulb is a consumable part. What do I owe you? He laughs, tells me to have a great day and smiles. The gall of these people. They sell cars that cost 3 to 5 times what my perfectly good Ford F-150 cost and I can't wait to place the order for my next car from them. I wanted to give the kid the lecture and explain that rules were made for a reason and besides . . who would ever give the authority to exercise judgment and discretion to a service writer. . . what were they crazy? Look at the way this guy had abused his authority. HOMEWORK QUESTION: What is the dealer profit on a headlight bulb? What is the commission on a Porsche 911? If you could give away a FREE headlight bulb to lock in the sale of a Porsche. . . even though you had no obligation to do so. . Is it good business of bad business? I've got about 15 books on customer service in my library at home and have enjoyed over the years writing about the extraordinary value that customer service can bring. I've quoted Patricia Seybold more times than I can remember. quoted Robert Townsend even for years after "Up The Organization" went out of print and preached till I was blue in the face about the duty of high tech firms to avail themselves to benefits of the nearly instantaneous communications tools at their disposal to not only "service" customers but to AMAZE them. I've long been an advocate that I can sell more Buells with a kind word and a sincere "thank you on behalf of a lot of nice people" than I can with marketing brochures, neck gaiters and goofy dealer incentives to make it appear I've sold more Buells than I really have. I hope somewhere the same person who decided to send the Buell 1125R to the world's largest motorcycle show in Italy and overlooked sending an enthusiast with it comes to realize some of this. It still hurts me to hear reports of that 1125R sitting in the corner unnoticed. I'm sure the metric that success was measured by was "getting it there". Buell is, in a couple weeks, going to be making a debut appearance in an incredible new market. . . I'm going to be watching to see how it's handled. People buy value, service and the chance to be part of something, not horsepower, metal flake and image. The Mission Statement of CUSTOMER SERVICE should (in my personal opinion as a construction worker) read something like . .
Court |
