| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
I don't thing penalizing a dealership (or its employees) is the way to go...nor is it going to happen. We have to *educate* our dealers, and our salespeople. I've been to Back To The Track (only once...so far) and all I can say is WOW. Those guys (and gals!) really know some Buell. Three of us went to the class from our dealership. I own Buells; the other guy has a license and rides but doesn't own; the lady is a helluva salesperson (could sell ice to eskimos) but doesn't ride at all. All three of us learned a LOT about the bikes, the process, and the mentality behind the product. The funny part is this: it was a three day trip for us. 2 days HD (Day 1, Dynas; day 2, VRSC platform), followed by one day Buell. LV Raceway was swarming with people and bikes for the 2 HD classes. Third day...well, let's just say we got a TON of riding time in! <can> Dealers are hesitant to invest time and money in a product that doesn't turn as much cash. Not that it's a bad product, but the points made above are very valid - Buellers don't have a lot to choose from in the way of OEM accessories. We're *not* (thank God) all about impressing our friends with how blindingly bright our bikes are in the sun. I - and most of the Buellers I have had the pleasure of meeting - actually care more about *riding* our motorcycles than we do about trailering them to the annual Trail...er, Bike Week. And we sure as hell don't sell 600 Buells a year like we do HDs. Does that mean they're a bad product? NO. Does that mean we as consumers should take the time to educate our dealers' employees, even if their bosses won't? HELL YES. If a dealer employee treats you poorly (legitimately poorly, not "I'm having a bad day and I want to blame someone for something"), ask them politely if there is a Buell owner or "specialist" on staff. People come into my dealership (or call) and ask that question, and I get every one of them. I don't care if it's the guy who just dug his S1 out of storage and wants a better shifter (X1 upgrade kit) or someone on a GS who wants to buy a Uly...I give them every second I can spare, and if I'm slammed I get a name, phone and email. If they point you to a tech, or a salesperson, or a General Merchandise Associate...they pointed you to someone who's a friendly party and you have made a friend in the dealership, even if not in the department you were initially looking for. If they give you more attitude...ask if the general manager is in. Don't turn it into a farce. Express your disappointment and let it go as you exit the dealership. Make sure they have your contact information if they want to get in touch with you after they have a chance to review everything at the next meeting. I'm pretty sure a good dealer will give you a call and ask for a second chance. In the meantime - keep supporting the brand. Keep supporting the dealers that *do* take care of you. And - this is the most important part - make sure that dealership and everyone you can reasonably find in it KNOWS you, as a Buell customer, are happy with them and will be bringing friends or recommending their facility to other Buell owners and prospective buyers. If they know they are being networked to their benefit, they will invest more time and effort to improve their offerings. I guarantee you - the Motor Company will not penalize a dealership, not in this market with the Metrics busting down the doors. We need every bike we can get on the road. Just keep in mind - it does work "backwards"...customers communicate with dealers; dealers communicate with regionals; CSI scores are HEAVILY emphasized and noticed; regionals communicate with the Motor Company...and good dealers do get supported. S**t may only run downhill...but good news travels up nearly as quickly as it does down. | ||
| Court |
Every Buell dealer should engage in a cooperative relationship with a BOA - Buell Owner Advocate. | ||
| Naustin |
 Since when it is up to the customer to fix problems in the management and culture of a company? Both of you seem to be saying that Buell owners have to bring about change though their own sheer will. Buell Owners should not need advocates, and Harley Davidson needs to man-up and fix the problem rather than wait to see if demand increases substantially enough to trigger a greed reflex amongst its dealerships. I want to know what HD thinks the solution is - and if all they can think of is that it will go away on its own when sales increase, than I say - that's bullshit. (Message edited by naustin on May 04, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>Both of you seem to be saying that Buell owners have to bring about change though their own sheer will. Absolutely not. Many times, it's a simple fact, Buell owners are much better verses in Buells than some of the dealer personnel. I always suggest, when I work with dealers, that they "enlist" a knowledgeable Buell advocate to visit with potential customers. I did the same thing with my first Harley-Davidson. . . by the time I bought the bike, I'd bought and read cover to cover (including the 9 errors I found) the service and parts manuals. I'll bet there are folks here who can talk CityX with you all day. It's a key eyelet for a successful dealership. . . in my opinion. I'd also love to see TEAM BUELL get the breath breathed back into it to. . . how cool would it be to have Buell Owner Area Captains meeting twice a year with staff at East Troy to discuss problems and ideas? Buell is light years ahead of any other manufactuer in the way they deal with customers. Dealers could learn from Buell. But then . . heck, I'm a construction worker. | ||
| Naustin |
I'd also love to see TEAM BUELL get the breath breathed back into it to. . . how cool would it be to have Buell Owner Area Captains meeting twice a year with staff at East Troy to discuss problems and ideas? Now that's a great idea that would cost practically nothing! I'm not surprised it was axed. Let me guess who made the decision NOT to do this... I've got $100 that says the decision came from Milwaukee and not East Troy. | ||
| 65460 |
Well, when I went looking for a Buell I stopped at Racine HD and they wouldnt give me the time of day. Im not a kid, Im over 50, maybe that was it, I should have been looking at Harleys instead of Buells. Anyway, it annoyed me a little but Im not one to raise a stink, so I went down the road to Ukes. Now in a previous post Steve mentioned having a problem with a salesman. I walked in and one of the girls behind the counter asked if I needed help, told her what I wanted and a young guy by the name of Colin spent all time I needed answering my questions, etc. That sold me on the bike. I bought it that day. I was going to do the 1000 mile service myself but wanted the TPS checked/reset so I took it in. I was a little leary about taking it into the dealer after reading some of the stories here but I have to say the service dept was great. They were alittle freaked when I dropped it off on Sat for a Monday appointment. I was the only Buell there with about 15 HDs and they told me they hoped I didnt need anything done that day because they didnt have a Buell mechanic there on Sat. I would go back to Ukes again. Colin the sales guy was great. (Message edited by 65460 on May 10, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
Wow Chuck you must of been in Racine HD at a bad time. Jamie and Dean are both great guy's. I've had my run in's with Service at Uke's but that was 3 years ago. I basically was sworn at and had the F word used in there responses to my questions. I left Uke's and never returned. Thats to bad cause I really liked Keith and Nancy the owner's. They now have many new names working there to my understanding... maybe it has changed but I don't want to know now. | ||
| 65460 |
Dana, Maybe your correct about Racine HD. Im not judging them, I am a pretty open minded person, well, on most things anyway, and I would go back there again but only if I was treated poorly at Ukes. So far, in my limited expereince at Ukes, everyone sales and service, and parts (bought frame pucks) has been nice. When I called to check on my bike after dropping it off for the 1000 mile service, they thought they got the delivery date wrong, and I wanted to pick it up that day.They said they would try to have it done by 5:00pm. I explained I was just checking to make sure things would be ready when promised, which was two days later. Maybe I shouldnt tell them I know you and Steve or my luck might change  | ||
| Bads1 |
Like I said Chuck many many people have since been fired or moved on since my experience. Chances are they don't know me. But the owners do Keith and Nancy and I still feel they were and are great people. | ||
| Court |
Keith and Nancy Ulicki are top drawer folks and Keith has been a key player in the world of Buell since Day 1. . . . I mean the Day 1 was that was 15 years before badweb existed. A single experience on a single day will be as valid as drawing a single sample from a population. Try coming to New York City, speaking to one person and then trying to generalize. Time spent in this mind set is time wasted. Buell has a serious problem with dealers. They had it in 1997 when I wrote about it in Battle2Win, they have it now. Things, slowly and in isolated areas, are getting better. But the bottom line is I think it's unfair to generalize about a dealer based on a single experience. I also am an advocate; you've likely read my many ramblings about it, of being a responsible consumer. If I had a problem like some folks have had, I'd visit in a very professional manner with the dealer principle. Few people in business want to sell less. Court | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I purchased my first Buell (M2 Cyclone) back in 1998 from Ukes. I met Keith Ulicki then and could see that he was very committed to selling the Buell motorcycle brand. Every time I visit the dealership, all of the personal there are very friendly and very helpful. On my days off, I usually ride there to see the new inventory and talk motorcycles with the people there. Two years ago, I was there and talking to Keith and I was telling him that I was considering a different style of motorcycle since I was getting older and the Cyclone was not comfortable for me to ride, like in my earlier years. Keith told me to be patient that Buell was coming out with a new motorcycle that he assured me that I was going to like so I held off on buying the BMW and not long after that, Buell announced the introduction of the Ulysses. I purchased a 2006 Ulysses last lear and Keith was right, I love it!!! As far as Buell dealerships go, I live in Northern Illinois (right on the Illinois / Wisconsin state line), I have my choice from several good dealerships to chose from. Lake Shoer Harley-Davidson / Buell where Kevin Kemens (once a Buell employee in East Troy)works and is a avid Buell salesman. McHenry Buell doesn't stock many Buells but they are always friendly people to talk with. Hal's in just a short ride away and again a strong Buell dealership with friendly service and Racine Harley-Davidson / Buell where I was just at this last Saturday where a young lady spent some time showing me the features of a FXRG jacket. Very knowledgeable and friendly to deal with! But when it comes to Buell dealerships, my loyalty stays with Ukes, because they have earned it! For all those coming to the Buell Homecoming in July, if you stop by Ukes dealership on Friday afternoon, meet Keith Ulicki, visit his museum with all of his Buells, watch the Bubba Blackwell show and enjoy the lunch they are putting on, you'll then understand what a great dealership is all about! | ||
| Naustin |
They had it in 1997 when I wrote about it in Battle2Win, they have it now 10 years is a long time. It should have been fixed by now. Positive reinforcement works great, in certain circumstances. But, how long do you tolerate a disrespectful child before you institute consequences? The dealers in question are the teenage delinquent children and H.D. is the bad parent that denies them discipline and allows them to embarrass themselves, and their entire (corporate) family. But I guess that is just my highly critical opinion. On a positive note, I bought oil, filter, tranny fluid and ordered brake pads at my local dealer yesterday. They were nice. I bought a $14 buell hat too just to enourage them to stock more Buell stuff. They had 2 new Buells in the whole store - a TT sitting alone by the bathroom with a small rack of a dozen or so t-shirts, and a Blast in their back shed with the used bikes. They also have a Uly in their shed - a `06 demo bike with a couple thousand miles on it and a light green fuelie S3t with a recall shock, PM wheels, stock muffler, narrow bags, and 8 or 9,000 miles on it that has been there for years - plus 3 used blasts. (Message edited by naustin on May 10, 2007) (Message edited by naustin on May 10, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
Alot has happened since Keith and Nancy had that small mom and pop store you so enjoy to remember,and so do I. Remember though I spent lots of time and one of the key people to bring a Brag chapter back to Uke's. Everyone kinda new me by first name. Helped even with organizing you guy's (Team Elve's) a party. Then first time they work on a bike for me and it was a warranty issue my wifes first bike (Blast) they said it wasn't covered. Which was a bunch of crap considering I bought a rider's edge bike that already had a issue. Then he proceeded to tell my Bill and it was done. Done??? I didn't approve them to work on the bike. I thought it was a warranty issue?? I work on my own bike's if at all possible. Then I asked where was the phone call before the work proceeded?? The response I got was I'll take the F'n thing apart and give it back to you. So what I did is directly went out there payed the bill no arguement. Told Eva what had happened and left never to return. Hell Eva isn't even there anylonger. She Quit some months back. Sorry to say Court feeling's hurt and I took my lump's and went on. One experience can kill a life time of being a loyal customer. | ||
| Naustin |
Summary of Experience I went to the dealer the other day and picked up a couple of quarts of oil and a quart of Formula +, along with a new oil filter. I needed a set of brake pads too, so when I got to the parts counter, I asked if they had brake pads in stock. They did not, but the parts man, (veteran - I know he's been there a long time) asked me what bike - and I told him an `01 S3T. He got into his computer and while he had a little trouble finding it at first, he was able to pull it up and order the pads for me. Then, he began to ring-up my other purchases. When he came to the filter, which was just a standard HD filter I had grabed off the rack - he told me that it was the wrong one and that he had the Buell filters in the back. I was Impressed! It was great that Buell parts were actually in stock and the parts guy took the time to make sure I got the right stuff!! So, he came back with my "BUELL" filter and I happily went on my way. I didn't do the oil change until last night. Unfortunatly, the filter doesn't fit my bike. It threads on fine, but the diameter of the body is too small. I am guessing that Tubers take different filters than the XBs and the parts guy didn't know that?? (Neither did I, actually). None-the-less, it cost me an extra trip to Napa last night to get a filter that would fit. I'll be returning the "buell" filter one night after work this week. I don't have my receipt anymore. I'll be interested to see if they accept it. Nick (Message edited by naustin on May 22, 2007) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, another data point. Aces and Eights Harley Davidson is now a Buell dealer. This is the dealer right outside of Kings Island near Cincinnati, 5 minutes from my house. The good: Nice big BBQ on a saturday when I walked in, three or four Buells on prominent display, friendly folks and nice facility. I looked at a cherry red XB12SLong for about 2 minutes before somebody in sales walked up and had a nice friendly low pressure conversation, and he seemed well informed. And he said they were selling the heck out of Buells. The ladies at the service counter were patient and polite and persistent in making sure they knew what I needed and that they were the right part. They also had a cool video showing on many TV's in the shop that had both Harley bikes, a music video, and lots of very good Buell footage. Even if the Harley guys there don't prefer to ride a Buell (fair enough, I don't prefer to ride a Harley) I felt respected. Which is fair enough, I respect somebody who decides they want to ride a Harley, it's a good choice. Growth Areas: 1) They did not have the parts manuals, but could look things up on a computer in the back room. That's OK, but being able to point to a parts manual and say "is this it" would be worth the investment to get the parts manuals. 2) I wanted a set of rear brake pads, and an oil pump gasket. There is no excuse for not having either these in stock at a Buell dealer. More then a week later, they have still not called to tell me the parts are in (I had to pay in advance). 3) Not a lot of gear or shirts to choose from. Understandable, but I am currently in the market for a decent pair of armored riding pants ($150 or less) and armored touring boots ($100 or less). If they had a good pair in stock, I would have walked out with them. 4) They said they are not doing the messenger bag thing... but that could have been because the sales guy did not want to mess with a test ride and a bag giveaway on a busy saturday afternoon to somebody who already has a Buell and was there for parts. Thats fair. I broke my shifter linkage trying to get that *perfect* adjustment (brain cramp) so I went across Dayton to F&S Buell. They had the shifter linkage and brake pads in stock, so I bought them that day over the counter. They had fewer bikes, but all the parts in stock, and a better selection of gear, though still not the stuff I wanted. And in more fairness, I since went to two different big import dealers, and their selection of good street riding gear was crap as well. No boots, no reasonable pants. I would like to help Aces and Eights step up, they are doing the hard parts right. Even if I keep going to F&S. So, Court or anybody else... has anybody put together a parts list for XB "should stock" items? I can make a list just by guessing that would be decent just by walking around my bike, but I would not have part numbers. I suspect that if I went in there with a detailed list (with part numbers already populated) of "should stock parts", they would just order them and have them on hand. I suggested as much to them and they thought it was a great idea. If I just go in with part descriptions, it will be a lot of work for them and have a lot of opportunities for defect. Seems like a "help a Buell dealer help themselves" list of parts and part numbers would be a nice thing to have on hand for the benefit of the Buell collective. Even if your local dealer does good by you, you never know when you will break down on I-71 near Kings Island and need something like a shifter linkage or a front brake pad and be happy they have one in stock... So anybody have the list? | ||
| Ratbuell |
...there's a list on here somewhere, but I don't remember if it's in the general forum, or maybe even the Old School forum. Sorry, that's *almost* helpful...but I know there's a list on the badweb somewhere  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
My house is up on the market, cashing out my equity. Thinking of traveling to all the dealers that are listed on the Buell Web Site... Hmmmm Buell Owner Advocate... is that an official job title ? Look for the CityXSlicker world tour postings as soon as the house is gone. | ||
| Ruzdek |
My father and I bought bikes at Stone Mountain Harley. Great location, but the staff is VERY Harley oriented. Cameron is a great guy and helped us out a lot, answering all the questions we had and making us feel welcome to the Harley and Buell family. Now we bought a HD Vrod Nightrod Special and a Buell XB12Ss (which is mine, cherry red). Supposedly Craig is the first person to ever enter us into the system and became our salesperson by proxy. He, in my opinion at least, is not exactly friendly. We came by several times because my father is not an impulsive buyer and likes to get the best deal possible, which in hindsight might have pissed Craig off, but still is not a reason to not be knowledgeable and enthusiastic about something that he sells. Patronizing one's customers is also not very welcome. I always research before I by something and so I did with the XB12Ss. Great bike, but like I mentioned earlier, the dealership is very HD oriented and doesn't cater to Buell as much. Or maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I shouldn't write anything here at all, anyway, that's just my two cents. Rudy | ||
| Daves |
Reep, Buell has that list of "should stock at all times" | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Dave! I wondered about that. Seems like a fairly obvious list to make. I have an email, I will shoot them a note thanking them for their help and for carrying and representing the Buell motorcycles fairly well (they did) and encouraging them to get that list from Buell... Especially for the XB's (that they are selling well, I am seeing a lot of them around here now). | ||
| Court |
There was, although my personal involvement now dates back to 1998, a 3 tiered list of "suggested P&A stocking" based on sales volume. There likely remains such an animal. The "suggesting" system has never seemed to work real well. Pavlov would be a nobody of the "consequence" part of his stimulus-reaction thing weren't there. | ||
| Smokescreen |
If you want to know about Buell at Stone Mountain, you talked to the wrong person. I recently just moved to sales. One of only two Buell riders here at the shop. A 3%er to boot, and access to more Buell info than you could handle. I wouldn't be working here if we didn't have Buell. Next time you stop by ask for me. I try to keep as current as I can on ANYTHING Buell. Hope your next experience is far more Buell friendly. Smokescreen | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Cheers & welcome to Sales!, I really believe the best experience can be delivered from staff that rides the bikes, owns them, and is well... excited about them. I don't understand why this is not more of a practice. | ||
| Naustin |
Hey Smokescreen - That's great. But if you're the Buell guy, the rest of the staff needs to refer people to you and be friendly while doing it - not try to steal a commission while being ignorant of the product. I don't care if Erik himself is there to sell me a bike, if everybody else in the place is a prick, I'm not going to be happy. Go tell "Craig" to f- himself for the Buell community as a whole. ;) | ||
| Court |
Struggle with interpersonal relationships, do we? Funny how a good point becomes total sewer flush when poorly presented. I'd encourage you to come to NYC and join me for a day with the Union Iron Workers and Teamsters at the World Trade Center. The lesson would hurt a bit, but would be invaluable for you in the long run. Brian. . . you get the drift. Fix the problem and drop me a note. Let me know if you need help. Court | ||
| Naustin |
You'll have to be more direct, Court, if you're talking to me. I don't grasp the relationship between ground zero, teamsters, and my "sewer flush". None-the-less, I'd love to take you up on the offer to job-shadow you for a day. My wife and I will be in NYC next summer visiting some friends who are being transferred there for a year from Oslo. And, I do have some constrution experience building Butler warehouse and commercial buildings for 3 summers while in college. They aren't skyscrapers, but then again, once you're over 40 ft up riding the beams while the crane lifts them into place, any higher and it just takes longer to hit the ground. If the problem with dealerships could be fixed, it would already have been fixed. What is required is a culture shift, and that is pretty tough to accomplish without a civil war, revolution, mass famine, terrorist attack or some other kind of catastrophic event. Of course, that has been proven by the fact that Buell has been unable to resolve the issue despite 20 years of time trying. Postitive reinforcement works great on individuals, but groups of people, and whole cultures rarely respond to it. But, hey, that's just my sewer flush spilling out again. I'll try to keep my mouth shut at homecoming, though. I can be quite pleseant in person.  | ||
| Court |
Your delivery has the tact of a turd in a punchbowl. I don't disagree with most your points. Positive reinforcement works on anyone or any group if the essential elements are present.
I've had to know this stuff to start and run my own business and in a number of my professional dealings over the years. If you can't get in the door, it makes no matter how smart or right you are. (Message edited by court on June 26, 2007) | ||
| Naustin |
If the construction workers at the World Trade Center take the time to be tactful when someone is doing something wrong, people could very well be injured or killed by the time they negotiate a settlement of the impropriety. I can be very tactful when I choose to be. However, Badweb is not a confrence room in East Troy, and there are times when tactfulness is merely a waste of words. PS) none of those three elements are present. (Message edited by naustin on June 26, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>>none of those three elements are present. Those three elements are ALWAYS present. I got some of my best lessons as a Squad Leader in the USMC that have served me well for years. They may not always be evident, like the "smoking causes death" consequence lacks immediacy and erodes the motivation to stop. On the other hand the "certainty" element is so far removed of a fatal airline crash that it takes TONS of severity to make folks scared. I've competed in sports, served as a Marine, spent 2 years with The White House and can't drag my aging ass from construction and I'd submit that I can find those 3 elements in ANY behavior. I've had pretty impressive results with Buell dealers over the years. May just be old age . . . anyway. . . I had a meeting with the Hoisting Engineers at lunch a few minutes ago. The tower cranes were moved into the World Trade Center site this week. If you stop by there, be sure to mention that you are in town to teach Court how to get along with folks. They may offer to reimburse you for your trip.  | ||
| Court |
That sling bag never goes away does it . . . I noticed I had it on when I danced with Meredith Vieira on the Today show last Friday . . . I gotta get a new style! |
