| Author | Message | ||
     Snail |
My idea to discuss the issues rationally was obviously a bad one, and a waste of time. The mocking and pettiness makes that perfectly clear. This posts concludes my efforts. Wishing all of you a safe and fun summer. | ||
| Mikej |
That's too bad. Hopefully you and Blake will carry on the discussion off-line to good result. Thanks for the summer good wishes, likewise to you and your's as well. | ||
| Rocketman |
What a quitter...........  Rocketman | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Badweb has the right to structure itself anyway Blake and his custodians see fit...just as I have the right to not visit if it doesn't suit my needs. However, as Snail has opened this door I thought I'd take the opportunity to walk through. (In point of fact, I don't believe my following thoughts have the right to appear on this board. But--again--this door has opened.) I am in agreement with Snail as re the profanity issue. To begin with, I've never bought into the idea that the use of profanity somehow indicates a knuckle-dragging mentality or a deficient vocabulary. Simply t'aint so. As time passes I believe we'll find that, in retrospect,this is the "Golden age" of the 'net. The future will see increased monitoring, various fee structures, and any number of restrictions on what may, or may not, be written. Given that, it might be said that Badweb and China are way ahead of this coming curve as regards what can only be called censorship. "Censorship" is a velvet hammer of sorts. The censors of the world have appointed themselves guardians, keepers of the light who, though well-intended, do more towards snuffing than brightening it. For example (please feel free to correct me if I'm in error) there appears to be a very heavy-handed effort here to stifle contrary opinion. This is the real scary part to me, because when all start marching to the same drum beat the music becomes a mantra, a dangerous one. I'd like to contribute here occasionally, but I find that the few times I've written something I've spent too much time concerned about what I can or can't write. And that's a freedom I refuse to give up. | ||
| Blake |
I think that you are confused about the policies of the site. What do you imagine that you might like to contribute that might be inappropriate here? Examples please. | ||
| Pammy |
"I am in agreement with Snail as re the profanity issue. To begin with, I've never bought into the idea that the use of profanity somehow indicates a knuckle-dragging mentality or a deficient vocabulary. Simply t'aint so." Reg, I do believe the profanity issue is due to so many folks imbibing of the web during working hours and possibly(gasp) on company computers and time. Now you, being one of the MOST imaginitive (writing anyway) folks I have met, would surely be able to use your fine imagination to fill in the blanks if I were to type a phrase like ....•••• you, you dickless mother •••••• ...Now just to clarify, that statement was solely for demonstrative purposes, but I bet you can guess what it said. I could guess what it said and it doesn't really need to be spelled out(and I'm not that bright).I have absolutely no issue if someone has a need (as I often do, myself) to use profanity. I do, however, respect those who cannot tolerate it for whatever reason(job, kids,stick up ones ass , etc...).(hey, ass made it through) As far as the heavy handed opinion censoring...It does seem that there has been a bit more of that than usual, but there have been a few private, some public and all extremely hurtful upsets, that I sense may have caused the overcautious, maybe even overzealous (re)actions. I believe it will settle down given time. Along those same lines. You cannot possibly make everyone happy 100% of the time. There are those who will be happy and others who will not. Then there are those who will whine and mewl no matter what you do. So I say •••• 'em | ||
| Reindog |
"My idea to discuss the issues rationally was obviously a bad one, and a waste of time. The mocking and pettiness makes that perfectly clear." Snail, I disagree. I'm not sure where you are seeing an inordinate amount of mocking and pettiness. I thought most of the contributors were letting their hair down (or what they have left) in good faith. I am left with a better feeling for BadWeb as a result of everyones efforts. Snail and Blake: Thank you for this forum for people to air their views. Anyone who can get Joanne Lighton to actually post must be doing something right. And Snail be that dude. | ||
| Road_thing |
Wow. I thought there was some useful dialogue going on here. Pettiness? Mocking? I guess I missed those. Please, don't bother to point them out to me... I think it's good that Snail wants to discuss ways to improve the site, and I think it's great that Blake gives him a spot to do it. But, at the end of the day, the way the site is run is Blake's call, and it's entirely Blake's call. The custodians, if asked, will certainly offer their opinions, as I'm doing here, but I don't expect that any of the possible changes will be decided by a majority vote. I'm in favor of the profanity filter. I log on at work. I'd rather not have a screen full of •••• when I do. I'm not a prude, I'm ex-Navy and have 30 years in the oil patch behind me. I'm familiar with the words, I'd just rather not have them in my face on this site. As a custodian, I'll move posts out of sight if they are in blatant violation of the rules, posted here. I know, sometimes Blake chooses to engage, and when he does, I back off 'cause it's his house. I'm not always entirely consistent in my own home, either. I figure it's his prerogative. As an aside, I don't remember that "Rules" board being part of the sign-up procedure when I joined the BWB back in the last century, and it's just possible that some of the other long-term members haven't seen it, either. Would it be worth asking everybody, new and old alike, to re-affirm their agreement to abide by the rules? The sponsorship policy is a little more complex. I try to follow Blake's rules, but if I'm not sure that a post is in violation, I leave it alone and point it out to Blake and the others for some group discussion. All the other stuff: personal insults, invitations to physical combat, porn images, etc., I move 'em when I see 'em, and I notify the poster that I did, and why. OK, that's not short, but it's one post. If I'm mature enough to understand Snail's Rules of Order, I'm allowed one more before I have to sit down and shut up, correct? rt ps: Reg, I had no idea you were, well, uh, you know...what Pammy said...  | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Fair enough Blake... An example that comes to mind is what I perceive as a bit of a rose tint re Buell. I am, emotionally, a Buell supporter of the first order. I tag it "emotionally" rather than practical because over the course of the years Buell has pulled some really bonehead plays in the motorcycle market. The most egregious example was the X1. The S1 was on its way towards iconic status. The model hit a resonant nerve and sales were building slowly, but surely. Erik's crew began to integrate FEA into the build process and it was having a positive effect. The marketing sucked...as it does today, but the the S1..warts and all...was a truely American motorcycle, unique to the world and idiomatic of the early Mustangs, Z28s, et al. As an aside, why do you think the 300C, Magnum, Charger, and new Mustang have been so successful? Because they went to their own roots for inspiration and not that of another culture. Then someone got the idea that it wasn't edgy enough, and the X1 was born, or still born as the case was. Over-designed and under-engineered it dammned near tanked the outfit. Over the years I've had a relationship of sorts with Buell and its people. With very few exceptions I saw highly passionate, dedicated people striving to produce the best motorcycle they could, but always with one hand tied behind their back by Mother Harley. I am absolutely convinced (but can produce no tangible evidence) that the V-Rod motor was originally conceived to be a Buell product. I'm not sure what happened, but I'll venture to say that the design got a bit out of control... w-a-y too heavy a powerplant...and the internal wrangling (a good portion of Harley from top to bottom wished that the Buell would just go away) prevented a real American sportbike from being built. The XB line are good motorcycles, and the best of the bunch is the Ulysses (insufficient turning lock notwithstanding). with sales proving it. But there's expensive redundancy in the line and a marketing program that registers nothing on the attention scale. I do not, nor have ever, worshipped at the feet of Erik Buell. I think him a remarkable man of wideranging intelligence and an indomitability of drive that few others have. But he's still human, and one that can be, like the rest of us, a royal pain in the ass. I wish him well, and success. This country needs men like Erik Buell, and it needs the Buell motorcycle... one that succeeds on merit. Buells are not the best bikes in the world, far from it. But they are idiosyncratic, competent (XBs)and all-'merican. They are also overpriced as they are force-fit intro Harley pricing structure. Let me qualify that: Were Buell's marketed properly, price would not be an issue. Even at an increased price. That the tubers had problems is a given, but a great many of these came from ignorance on the part of the owners. There has always been something about a Harley-Davidson product that induces---no, make that seduces---its owner into believing that they're a competent mechanic; the bikes are just too easy to work on, and very easy to screw up. Were all the exhaust system problems, for example, laid at the feet of the guilty parties (the after-market and owners)the tuber problems would not loom quite so large. That's not to say there weren't engineering deficiencies, but they were ALL Buell's problem. One area in which Buell really dropped the ball big time was with P&A. given the mega monolith of marketing that is the HD P&A operation it is almost inexplicable. yet, I think I know why. It was the most base of reasons: $$. That an immediate return could not be realized (due to low volumes) doomed a realistic line of accessories. That was a bit of a ramble... hopefully a point came through. Pammy, I disagree with you re the *****: "Bull***!" can never replace "Bullshit!" I've always felt the use of asterisks or dingbats is just plain dishonest journalism. I am not, btw, advocating that every site, everywhere unleash the dogs of profanity. I brought it up merely because it is at issue. In principle, I abhore all manner of censorship that is banned because of a possible shock factor. Just to further piss in my mess kit; I think the "family" thing just a bit specious re this board. Do the little tykes really need to be viewing this stuff? And is there one among them that could not shock us with their own potty mouth. I think not. And, Blake, I really do think that George Bush The Current is an idiot. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
p.s. What IS the "sponsorship policy?" | ||
| Sarodude |
Can't a cookie based realtime profanity filter be instituted? Set a cookie on your work PC to have the server hide profanity (the default if no cookie is set) and set a cookie on your home / travel / porn downloading PC to allow it. I think geeks are abound on this site.... -Saro | ||
| Jon |
Reg, Man, it's good to read ya. The family orientation thing sounds goofy because it gives a Pat Robertson-esque connotation. While I am not a fan of Pat Roberston or similar ilk, I do want my family involved in motorcycles (just bought two dirt bikes for me and the kids) but I don't need them getting familiar with the potty language or getting the idea that profanity is a biker cultural thing that is OK. I think Pam demonstrated the alternative very well. And I'm glad when one of them walks up to me while I am reading this site and I don't have to wave them off. Oh they've already encountered the descendants of poo-poo and pee-pee. In recent years, my youngest son came into the house with a perfect Sacborg salute perched on the end of his arm asking, "Dad, what does this mean?". I told him. Lastly, as others have stated, this is work safe as well. Reg, of all the people I know, you are most capable of expression without the profanity. Gonzo's been done to death. You got game. (Message edited by jon on June 12, 2006) | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Jon... I consider profanity a legitimate part of language. But, like most words, it needs to be used appropriately. Again, I'm not necessarily arguing for profanity on this board... just jumping in on an interesting topic. And I like your thought re involving your kids. At the same time, were an anti-profanity movement started on my board of choice(ShavedSAC)I would fight it in the most profane of manners. | ||
| Snail |
So your little one walks in and starts reading over your shoulder and sees four red stars. What do the stars mean daddy? Or, your little one walks in and starts reading over your shoulder and sees four red stars and has to mentally go through his entire repertoire of four letter words until he finds one that fits the context. This of course exposes him to more profanity than just the one disguised word. | ||
| Jon |
Reg, Gotcha. I hear where coming from. Snail, If you were one of the Fantastic Four, you would be "Stretch". All I can say is, "Nu-Uhhh". Reg again, I agree that profanity is a part of our language. And I respect both of your opinions. | ||
| Loki |
"I consider profanity a legitimate part of language. But, like most words, it needs to be used appropriately." I really agree with this. Yet there within lies the rub. Some people consider it the only way to communicate. Dropping the f-bomb is not unknown or uncommon to me. Its use has become all to common and the effect of using it has been watered down. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Dead on, Loki. Profanity is a verbal condiment. Use it incorrectly, or excessively, and you've ruined the food for thought. | ||
| Snail |
Aw come on. Words are words, language tools to convey a message. Whether you use stars or letters to convey the message is a matter of convenience and sincerity. The F word is a beautiful word. It has so many permutations of meanings, it's unequaled in the Eng. lang. The F word can be used to describe the act of fornication, it can be used as an expletive depicting surprize, and adverb, with the adddition of 'er' it can be a adverbial phrase, its almost limitless. Marvelous word, my favorite. I may be accused of lacking refinement, but at times I like to use the F word in a paragraph as many times as the various parts of speech allow. Use it as a noun, a verb, an adverb or an adjective. It's all good. I would give an example of creaive F word writing but all you would see is red stars. | ||
| Mikej |
If you use uck instead of •••• you won't get the stars. So uckin' A get the story rolling.  And this is my second reply to this thread, so, bye. | ||
| Snail |
MikeJ, don't worry about the 2 reply rule, that went west and it's a free for all. I consider my attempt to poll the members a bad idea, and the remaining seven topics I wanted to discuss will not be presented. |
