| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
In case you haven't noticed, MotoGP is NOT AMA Racing... In any event, Rossi was NOT "passing on the outside," he was on the racing line in the LEAD so it was Marquez PASSING on the inside. However, if it was your point that it was actually Rule #8 and not Rule #1, I concede the point (if we were watching an AMA Superbike Race). (Message edited by jaimec on July 04, 2015) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Well, you proved our point with Rule #8, even though its a rule for a completely different series. Thank you, I think?  | ||
| Pwnzor |
Right.... The point being it's not rule#1 anywhere. You said "no one who knows anything", and I'm pretty sure Valentino knows more than you or me. He thinks it's stupid. Jaime, since you only concede the point if we're watching an AMA race, then why don't you show us all rule #1 of MotoGP. You know, the one about passing. Seems like you knowitalls get shown up every time I do a quick interwebz search. Maybe you should try it sometime before you spout off about what you think you know. You're being obtuse for the purpose of being... Obtuse, I guess. Marc is back. (Message edited by pwnzor on July 05, 2015) | ||
| Wymaen |
Marquez was there. Rossi tipped it over and ran into him. Marquez didn't stand the bike up and run into Rossi. Where do you see this happening? I'm being totally serious- there is literally nothing I can see that supports this idea. Saying Rossi 'tipped it over and ran into him' implies that Marquez was ahead, right? What are you seeing that makes you feel so strongly that MM was ahead of VR at any point on the last lap? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The only person being obtuse here is Pwnzor. You need to tone down the fan-boy stuff for MM and come back to reality. Seriously. Are you trying to say because a Rule is listed eighth, it's any less valid or important as the first rule? Or maybe it's just not making sense because you are trying to defend an indefensible position? Maybe I am being obtuse here. | ||
| Splatter |
Pwznor yeah you got me. Its rule number 8 in AMA not rule number 1! LOL! You just proved my point though cuz every thing about that rule says the overtaking rider has responsibility to do it safely. Thats the way it is in all of road and circle track racing too and if you ever raced you'd know that hell thats the first thing they teach you in school. Stick your nose in someones way when he does his turn in and moves to the apex and you better have a wheel in front or its YOUR fault. Every one in racing knows that except you. Nothing Vale says to contradict it either and to think he does is just wishful thinking. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I've never said Marc was ahead. I've made all my points, the rest is blather. What is, is. What was, was. Are you trying to say because a Rule is listed eighth, it's any less valid or important as the first rule? Not at all. Just that it's not rule #1. The first rules of racing generally have to do with equipment, what's allowed and what's not. Yeah, I've raced. Never professionally, only informally, and with mixed results. I've done some street racing, with much better results. Two rules. #1 - jump start = 5 second penalty #2 - fastest rider wins Traded paint for paint on more than one occasion. Traded skin with pavement once or twice as well. Ahh, youth. | ||
| Rsh |
In the overhead helicopter video, Marquez was not in front of Rossi going into the corner. Video inside of corner shows Marquez front wheel tap Rossi's knee, standing Rossi up, Marquez and Rossi run wide. Overhead video https://youtu.be/PbpngdY0gUU This video shows Marquez tapping Rossi https://youtu.be/J6UM4AbuE6U Better quality video, watch @1:02 and 1:23 https://youtu.be/vZThzRK4zno Slow motion https://youtu.be/7k7-_4o2DNI | ||
| Fresnobuell |
"Rule #1" is a figure of speech, not to be taken literally. | ||
| Pwnzor |
"Rule #1" is a figure of speech, not to be taken literally. Really? Thanks for telling me that... let me write that down somewhere. In the overhead helicopter video, Marquez was not in front of Rossi going into the corner. Duh. Nobody has said he was ahead. That's why it's called "passing". The person who is passing comes from behind and overtakes the person ahead of him. I have ALL the angles. As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, I have the MotoGP Video Pass subscription. I've seen all the footage. Let's put that to bed. We all agree that Rossi was ahead. The disagreement here is who initiated the contact between the two bikes. We already know what rule#1 isn't, and so far nobody, myself included, has been able to post the ACTUAL MotoGP rule regarding passing. We know what the AMA has to say about it. If somebody can find the actual written rule from MotoGP's website, please do post it. I couldn't find anything other than vague inferences, strangely enough. Almost like they don't want anybody to know. Hmmm, didn't a couple of riders quit MotoGP because of rule changes a while back? Yeah... sure did. We all know what Rossi thinks about it, thanks to me... which is why he wouldn't contest the outcome if Marc had actually gotten by him. | ||
| Jaimec |
This weekend Marquez gets his chance to get revenge. According to Crash.net, Marquez has NEVER lost a race at the Sachsenring... from 125s to Moto2 and now MotoGP he has always won. Lorenzo, on the other hand, has never WON at the Sachsenring... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So if you understand it's a figure of speech, why do you continue to make a point of stating it can't be found anywhere? It's like someone saying "it's raining cats and dogs" and you disagreeing because there are no cats and dogs on the ground. If you have all the angles, I suggest you go back to the angle from the front. This is the best angle to show the contact. It CLEARLY shows Rossi on the racing line carving towards the apex with knee down. It CLEARLY shows Marquez coming in from behind much more upright and way too shallow an angle to do anything but run into the leader. And that's exactly what he does. I can't even see a rational Marquez fan disputing it.  | ||
| Wymaen |
As I posted on reddit: At the moment of contact, MM93 is still braking, and VR46 has already completed braking and gotten back into the throttle while still being further down the racetrack than MM93. Does that make Marquez the leader of the race? Definitely not. His front wheel is rubbing Rossi's forearm...that means he is behind at the moment of impact. Whoops. Look at their body position. VR46 is head forward, shoulder dropped, knee down, following a line through the corner. MM93 is braced for impact- much more midline upper body, bent elbows, significantly less lean angle.  Tell us how Rossi initiated the contact. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Good point on Marquez still trail braking into Rossi...err the corner. Vale is certainly has maintenance throttle applied already. More proof of what we already know. On another note, there used to be a debate on how much the rear brake is used by top level riders. Did anyone notice how Vale jumped all over the rear brake when dove underneath and passed Marquez with 3 laps to go? Just an observation... | ||
| Pwnzor |
sigh....  | ||
| Jaimec |
http://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonan ce.html | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Well said... But look on the bright side, MM has done well at the Sachsenring. Hopefully he doesn't injury anyone. | ||
| Nobuell |
Seems simple to me. Rossi is ahead, he owns the real estate. Also notice that MM is braking into the rumble strips. He is trying to occupy track the does not exist. He is lucky VR did not put him down in the process. | ||
| Jaimec |
Damn. It's official. We won't see Manuela Raffaetą in the MotoGP paddock any more... | ||
| Firstbuell |
I've really enjoyed all the foto pasteups here & have shared them elsewhere here's 1 that appeared on BARF:  | ||
| Pwnzor |
I'm going to get one of those bells and have my daughter paint that design on it for me!!!! Awesome. Rossi says rules about how and when to pass are "stupid". | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So that's her last name, lol. Maybe she will make it out to WSBK at Laguna in a couple weekends...one can dream. How has she rebounded? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My guess is Rossi's reaction in that article was to answer pundits' criticism of Dorna for not having specific rules in the rulebook for overtaking. The only stipulation in MotoGP is that anything done on the track must be done safely, which obviously leads to interpretation of what is safe and what isn't. Of course, Race Direction is ultimately in charge of this interpretation and there have been some de facto "rules" established as illustrated in the lengthy quote I previously posted from race direction regarding this incident. This excerpt sums it up nicely and coincides with the Rulebook.
| ||
| Jaimec |
I doubt you'll see her at Laguna unless Marco is there by invitation from Yamaha. There are rumors that they want him to lead up their return to WSBK in 2016. We'll see. Seeing his wife AND Randy de Puniet's on the same grid? There's ONE way of making WSBK interesting again... | ||
| Pwnzor |
coincides with the Rulebook. So, you've got the Rulebook. Link it.} | ||
| Wymaen |
That was hard to find. http://www.fim-live.com/en/library/download/54980/ no_cache/1/ | ||
| Fresnobuell |
http://moottoriliitto-fi-bin.directo.fi/@Bin/a7aac5bc9d0c24dfff96a45a0ccb3da1/1436284112/a pplication/pdf/1417054/FIM%20MotoGP-s%C3%A4%C3%A4n n%C3%B6t%202015%20EN.pdf | ||
| Pwnzor |
Great, thanks. Still not rule #1. | ||
| Crusty |
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| Davegess |
still a figure of speech |
