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Archive through September 17, 2014Buellmojo30 09-17-14  12:14 pm
         

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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dana:

How do you cap the cost of a factory racing machine if it never gets sold? Or any team's machine for that matter? The only thing the cap does is limit the sell price. If you don't sell it, the sky's the limit.
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Wymaen
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Since the brakes are not a chosen option for the team, does that cost really apply here?
EBR chose to use their own brake set up, so I am not seeing the value, nor the cost comparison, of that example?


Isn't that the whole point- that the EBR offering is good enough that the ultra-expensive upgrades aren't strictly needed to make the grid? I would definitely think that the (not) added expense of a SBK-spec braking system would be a valid consideration in a cost comparison.
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Classax
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well in FIM WSBK, which is what I assume we are all talking about here, they TRY to cap prices by having an approved list of add on components. Although Blake makes the perfect point about the bits that are actually factory spec.

EBR is really in a difficult position and poor performance by the team early on really exacerbates the problems.

First they selected an engine configuration that may be past its competitive prime against its peers at the WSBK level.(No need to tell me how awesome it is on the street or for the average track day/club racer). They engineer the engine to an extremely high level off the showroom floor but being near its peak against short stroke twins, and 4 electronically governed to be able to put down excess power, it seems like they're way down on power right off the bat. The problem is most of the bikes on the grid( and there are those who differ with me on this, which is ok) have race grade components that don't ship with the replicas at your bike mart, so it takes a lot of $$$ and work to make the kind of power the EVO's and Superbikes are putting out to embarrass the EBRís. This happens in nearly all forms of factory backed racing. Eirk was a privateer for a long time and still has a privateer approach to racing. Great approach for consumers but hard if not impossible to win races.

Then there is all the add ons to get race ready. Rearsets, Radiators, wheels, subframes, ect. All of that stuff is replaced on an EVO or Superbike, but is of sufficient quality to race on the EBR.

Then there's brake issue. EBR runs their floor stock brake set up which clearly isn't, in its current guise, up to the task of running at the front in WSBK. What people fail to understand or acknowledge is that you'd never even make it onto the grid with the brembo's that come stock on your kawahonducatprila. All the bikes in WSBK replace the forks , and shocks, and ecu and add data collections and custom fuel tanks so itís a matter of do want a bike where you add a minimum of $40K or $200K-$300K in parts to make the grid. Race bikes and race replicas for the most part only look alike.

So you see the EBR quality really is world class but it is not anywhere near world beating. It is in fact just barely good enough to make top 20 at the WSBK level. This makes it appear as though the bikes are crap when in reality itís not an apples to apples comparison. Having the keystone cops make decisions on set up, engine building and testing just made a bad situation look way worse. Blowing up on track simply added fuel or rather engine oil to the proverbial fire. The WSBK season while a historic test, and successful I guess, from the standpoint of destructive testing of equipment, has been a PR failure in my mind. As has been the Demo rides with the TC turned up to SUPER SAFE mode, as has been launch of bikes to dealers without the back end systems in place, as has been the press launches with un test bikes with brake lever flutter, as has been the lack of advertising or company sponsored shoot outs. The Moto mags will not likely include the EBR in liter bike shoot outs until its up against a refreshed R1, the Kawi H2, a new CBR and technofied RC8R in 2015, a line up that will likely see the EBR last again next year. (not because itís a bad bike, but because the bar will have been raised yet again).

People say all the time why would I buy an EBR? Its so expensive, when I can buy a Jap or Italian for the same or a few K less. To which I say, go look into what it will cost you to get a set of comparable aftermarket, rearsets, clip ons, race radiators wheels, and 520 chain and sprocket conversion and tell me if its still too expensive. You can drop between $.5-1.2K just on the rearsets, $500 on 520 conversion, and $5K on wheels and you still haven't addressed the brakes subframe, radiators, oilcooler, stators, pumps and swingarm yet. You can spend nearly twice as much as the EBR on an 1199R and you will still have to replace more than half the things on that list before you could get it ready for WSBK.

That said EBR inexcusably dropped the ball on the quick shifter and real slipper clutch for a bike at this level. (Even though what you do get works unexpectedly well).


Add to all of that, EBRís failure to list with KBB so banks could finance the bikes and insurance companies list them, along with a soft market for sport bikes of all kinds and a lack of brand recognition a part from the old Buell Harley days and itís been a perfect storm. There are a lot of things EBR is making bad missteps on. The WSBK season has been just one of many. The one thing no one can fault them for, is they have made one hell of a superbike for the money and that is why I am rooting for them! GO EBR
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

With AMA being what it was, there really was no place else for them to go and get HERO the press and photo ops they wanted.




Nobody but golf fans would probably know this, but Hero is new title sponsor for Tiger's golf tournament which benefits the TW Foundation. The Hero CEO was actually at Tiger's press conference this week. Very interesting. I can't clearly see the relationship between low cost, mass produced motorcyles and golfers. Maybe the Hero CEO just wanted to get a few rounds in with Tiger?
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Firstbuell
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 08:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

HERO is a privately held company with a Leader whose Company has sufficient discretionary bux to do whatever he desires.....

"thanx be" to The Big Guy that SBK for a year [or 2?] looked like a good idea !

(Message edited by firstbuell on September 17, 2014)
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Hybridmomentspass
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2014 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

well hopefully they'll have a stock-shootout class next year and the EBR can earn some points!
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Fresnobuell
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

\quoteHERO is a privately held company with a Leader whose Company has sufficient discretionary bux to do whatever he desires..... }

Thank you for the insight
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Court
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>HERO is a privately held company

That, like a significant amount of the above assumptions, is patently inaccurate.
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Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe Hero wants to sell some top end hybrid scooters to the many people who follow golf.

Around here, there are a PILE of places that sell golf carts to retirees that live in massive "golf estate" developments. There are a lot of people that buy the carts to get around the community.

A hybrid scooter would be "fun" and take up almost no storage space. I see "more" people on scooters every time I go to one of those kinds of places. Big market there if Hero can do adds with Tiger on a scooter.
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Classax
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2014 - 07:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wouldn't count them out of the points this next round yet. The next major goal is cracking superpole. I think they might just get it done this time.
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