| Author | Message | ||
     Classax |
Rocket, you make a lot of assumptions about the US and the US market that its clear you don't understand from an ideological perspective- doesn't mean you're always wrong, but when you're right its often for the wrong reason. At the peak of WSBK success in the UK there were about 1.6M viewers 2004 if I recall correctly. or about 2.5% of the total population. There are very very view fans of AMA road racing who are not also followers of WSBK and MotoGP, heck we'd love to see some Moto 2 and 3 racing but can't. The decline in AMA interest has had more to do with access to coverage not lack of interest. Talk to anyone over here and you'll find its the subject of pure disgust. Right now WSBK for most of the US is the only racing besides MotoGP we have access to actually watch on TV. So how's Bein doing with their early Sunday morning broadcast? If you trust Al jazeera or Nielsen, between 1.8M and 2.5M viewers watch the races within 7 days of broadcast here in the US. Only about 59% of cable and dish suppliers even carry Bein. In other words the country that buys more Sportbikes a year than anywhere else on the planet not only watches but is actually being starved out by the success of other motorpsorts. In other words despite being woefully undeserved Motorcycle roadracing still draws more US viewers than many most of the other markets around the world. Here's one for you- There currently almost as many registered motorcycle road racers in the US, to equal about 35% of the registered motorcycle RIDERS in the UK. I don't think anyone at EBR said hey we can blow off the first 8 rounds as long as we do well at home. It would be stupid not to be ready to go at your home track! What is more likely happening is the team is coming to grips with parts and the fact that if they don't do well at home, its likely MV won't be the only MFG to fire the local yocals and run the effort themselves. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
doesn't mean you're always wrong, but when you're right its often for the wrong reason. Very patronising of you thank you. Your problem is, there's not one comment from you in this entire topic where you don't have some sort of counter towards the negatives said of EBR. I get that you're a fan boy. I get that you own the bike. But man, can't you for just a minute pretend you had bought the f**king Aprilia instead. Put the boot on the other foot! Regardless, believe what you like but WSBK is not a headline grabbing sport in the U.S as it is in Europe. That is the major difference we are talking here. Publicity! Now your home race is a different kettle of fish and might make the never to be otherwise headlines if an American rider, bike, team does well, but what really matters here is an American bike not doing well, as this won't matter where no headlines are not made. Like if an American rider won it would be all over your news. But an American bike not doing so well will be all around the biking community of America. That my friend is the point I make. Not how popular or not WSBK is compared to the Euro popularity, but where and how far the news goes. And in this case, what will no doubt be bad news for EBR Hero. Hence my suggestion EBR Hero are trying to pull out all the stops where it really might matter to them. I can already read the excuses in the press release. In fact, would you like me to write it for them now? It will go something like this. New improved engine and better performance. Riders much faster and closer to the leaders. Yada yada..... Rocket in England | ||
| Rsh |
TV or no TV, AMA road racing attendance has dropped way off. Look at past photo's. Lack of sponsor's, lack of venue's, and long down time between race's is sucking the remaining life out of the series. I think road racing in the superbike class took a dramatic down turn when Spies left for WSBK which ended the epic Spies Mladin battles, the last hurrah for AMA superbike. The rules change from "real factory" superbikes was also a nail in superbike class coffin. Honda, Kawasaki, Ducati, BMW and MV are nowhere to be found, leaving fan's of those makes with nothing to root for. The only factory team now is Yamaha and a deflated Yosh Suzuki effort, though lately, KTM's development progress of the RC8 has shown glimpses of competitiveness. The Ulrich Superbike shootout was like a defibrillator to revive peoples interest, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope it's not to late. | ||
| Classax |
Very patronising of you thank you. My pleasure... don't mention it. Your problem is, there's not one comment from you in this entire topic where you don't have some sort of counter towards the negatives said of EBR. My problem is, it seems all some of you can do is be negative about everything it would seem. They haven't even run the race yet and some are already bagging on them. Point in case: And in this case, what will no doubt be bad news for EBR Hero. Hence my suggestion EBR Hero are trying to pull out all the stops where it really might matter to them. I can already read the excuses in the press release. In fact, would you like me to write it for them now? It will go something like this. New improved engine and better performance. Riders much faster and closer to the leaders. Yada yada..... I'm not interested in making excuse for a company I don't make a dime of profit from. I don't care what people think about what I ride as long as it works best for me. I'm interested in understanding WHY things are the way the are in order to improve, not complaining moaning about it. IE why the bikes are NOT performing as well as the engineering and math suggest they SHOULD. Could be they are just not up to the task, but until the team fields them in tip running order we really don't know. My problem is the impugning of a person's or company's character instead of their performance. If a guy is incompetent or incapable and you call on the carpet for it that's fine it is what it is, but when you say a man doesn't care about his reputation or his position in the market particularly when his name is on it, here in the states them's close "to fighting words". My problem is people assuming we're to dumb to understand your point if we disagree with them. No WSBk may never compete with the NFL or even NASCAR for news coverage here in the US, heck our national elections often don't, but there are more people following WSBK in the states than in several Euro countries where its a national passion combined. The days of needing a major national press outlet to spread the word too an interested market are long gone. To Americans not doing well, anytime, for any reason, matters. Ask May or Yates if it matters. Ask Erik Buell if it matters, ask the guys who are writing the checks over at Hero if it matters. Would you want to do well in front of your home crowd? Of Course! Anyone would/should! As I said, Rocket is right but for the wrong reason. EBR/HERO doesn't need to do well for the publicity that ship has sailed. Their abysmal performance this year is all over the American racing community. They need to do well at home for their own sense of pride and self respect. Any kid who's played little league anything knows that. It doesn't matter what bike I own, Hero/EBR has been awful in WSBk. But since I do own one its performance has me scratching my head as to why or how they have been so horribly bad. In the AMA I know why the R1's are so strong and what it would take to run with and beat them. Without rules changes the twins will always be also rans no matter how good they are. The WSbk effort on the other hand has been like open mike night at the local ice house, big on dreams and effort but clearly lacking in either talent or preparation and development. Its just so bad you can't really figure out which. To be clear, I'm no fanboy of EBR, yes I own one, but I own it for clear reasons which I'm happy to discuss. The day a bike that works better for ME comes along I'll buy it if I can, regardless of who makes it. I am a fan of being accurate without putting unnecessary positive or especially negative spin on anything. It is what it is, and most of the time that's more than entertaining or interesting enough. Tell you what- I'll try to be less pedantic if you try to be less... less of a  deal...  | ||
| Rsh |
"To be clear, I'm no fanboy of EBR" I am surprised that your and Hughlysses Pom Pom's haven't burst into flame's and burned the board down with all the cheer leading you guys do. Of course everyone here wants EBR to do well, at Laguna specifically. It's the best chance and the most level the playing field can get, no excuses. I'll be there, I can't wait. | ||
| Ljm |
It is a puzzle to me too, at least in terms of the disparate performance between the WSBK rides, the AMA bikes, and mine. It is Ok, you can call me a fanboy because you have to believe in something and at the end of the day, I am going support ours and not theirs. I wish they would solve the issues but regardless, I would rather have one of these than one of those whether it wins or not. (BTW, I am still betting on Sikes like I was before the season). I will be at Laguna Seca too and hoping for the best. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
My problem is the impugning of a person's or company's character instead of their performance. If a guy is incompetent or incapable and you call on the carpet for it that's fine it is what it is, but when you say a man doesn't care about his reputation or his position in the market particularly when his name is on it, here in the states them's close "to fighting words". Nice but just a tad too much drama thanks. Bring a race bike to race, and it fails miserably, people are going to slag it or the teams efforts off. If the owner of the company has his name on the motorcycle said company make and race, it's not personal to that person when the slagging off happens. It's just a consequence of supporting something which turns out to disappoint is all and their name is on their product. My problem is people assuming we're to dumb to understand your point if we disagree with them. No, your problem is countering every point then twisting any further explanation by suggesting I assume you're too dumb to understand it. Rocket in England | ||
| Hughlysses |
My pom-poms are Nomex, thank you very much.  | ||
| Classax |
Looks like another DNF for May... Yates apparently doesn't care if he gets lapped he's staying out there. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Looks like Geoff retired after only 1 lap. Hopefully that wasn't enough time for a catastrophic engine failure. I'm guessing another electrical problem or something bluntly wrong with the bike setup so that Geoff to chose to retire. Aaron managed a 16th place finish. A decent finish, but still ~2.5 seconds slower than the 15th place finisher and short of scoring even one point. | ||
| Rubberdown |
staying out almost got Yate's a point; which would be cool (Message edited by rubberdown on July 06, 2014) | ||
| Classax |
Looks like he was dicing it up with the beamer the whole way. | ||
| Jens |
Looks like Aaron have enough engines left to go racing. Hope that "strategy" works out and we see Geoff scoring at Laguna or better all 3 riders (-; | ||
| Jens |
Just to show what way is ahead: at Portimão were the Top 10 riders at the Qualifying within 0,294 sec. Close like that it was for the last time in 2009 at Valencia. There the Top-20 was within 0,847 sec, the Top-10 within 0,259 sec. WSBK is higher level, to compete there you need to have your stuff together. | ||
| Jens |
As an Underdog team you need to benefit from the special conditions. NOT This team! Its just hopeless.... Days like that are made for Heros. Soon Bimota can score.... Ayrton Badovini ITA Bimota Alstare BB3 (E) * Christian Iddon GBR Bimota Alstare BB3 (E) * * Ineligible to score points, removed from results (Badovini across the line 9th, Iddon 12th) Not Classified 20. Marco Melandri ITA Aprilia Racing RSV4 12 laps completed 21. Geoff May USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 7 laps completed 22. Aaron Yates USA Team Hero EBR 1190RX 0 laps completed Did Not Start Peter Sebestyen HUN Team Toth BMW S1000RR (E) Fabien Foret FRA MAHI Kawasaki ZX-10R (E) Claudio Corti ITA MV Agusta RC F4RR Oh ja, forgotten: that other V Twin finished 2. and 3.! (Message edited by Jens on July 06, 2014) | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
EBR should pull out of the series and test for the rest of the year. Those of us that love the brand will always do so. If EBR wants to grow they need to attract new buyers. This effort is now hurting EBR's ability to attract new buyers. | ||
| Classax |
For the life of me, I can't figure out why in the world they can't field a machine that can run for more than 80 miles at a time! Truly feckless! One lap in race one and only 6 in race two for May, and Yates completes how many in race two? | ||
| Trojan |
The rules change from "real factory" superbikes was also a nail in superbike class coffin. Honda, Kawasaki, Ducati, BMW and MV are nowhere to be found, leaving fan's of those makes with nothing to root for. The only factory team now is Yamaha and a deflated Yosh Suzuki effort, though lately, KTM's development progress of the RC8 has shown glimpses of competitiveness. It wasn't the rule change but the attitiude of AMA/DMG that made the factories pack up and leave AMA racing. from that point on it has been downhill all the way. maybe EBr got complacent thinking that becaue they were semi comeptptite in AMA racing they would ot ehsame in WSb, forgtting that Kawasaki, Honda, Aprilia, BMW et all have strong presence there that they don't in US racing. The KTM looks good in AMA racing after all simply due to lack of quality in dpeth, not because it is a truly competitive bike. That is the reason KTM never bothered with WSb. EBR should pull out of the series and test for the rest of the year. Those of us that love the brand will always do so. If EBR wants to grow they need to attract new buyers. This effort is now hurting EBR's ability to attract new buyers. Now there's a thing. I dared suggest this a couple of months ago and was dragged to the nearest tree with a rope around my neck by people wearing EBR bedsheets on their heads. I still stick by it though. They entered the wrong class, simple. I'm surprised that Aaron Yates wasn't on the thick end of an 'Irish Kiss' in race one having managed to get in the way of Euegen Laverty, Alex Lowes and Davide Giulagno on the last lap and losing Laverty 3 places. It is one thing to be dicing with someone for last place and another to get n the way of people lapping you  I had a thought this morning about Geoff May's new engine. If it was stuck at customs in Portugal that must mean that is had been shipped from the US rather than from the team HQ in Italy, as there are no border or customs restrictions between countries inside the EU. Does this mean that the race engines are now built at the factory rather than by an 'engine builder' for the team. Also I noticed that he only just made it to the end of pit lane befoe the warm up lap started in race 1, and lasted less than lap (If he even started). it is all sadly starting to look like it is falling apart at the edges every week. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Press release: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b1964295d7f155 fa8c439a200&id=cc505b42c5
It sounds like May deliberately ran as few laps as possible this weekend to save the "improved engine" for Laguna Seca. Perhaps Aaron dropped out of race 2 deliberately as well? I guess we'll see if they've got anything next weekend. It'll be the best engine they've had all season on a track the riders know and they should have knowledge of how to set up the bikes for the track, assuming the factory and AMA guys are involved in the pits. | ||
| Jaimec |
So Guintoli pulled a "Pedrosa" on Melandri in Race 2? Nice... | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm baffled; official results for Race 1 at SBK.com list Aaron as finishing in 16th, but team press release says 18th.  | ||
| Trojan |
I'm baffled; official results for Race 1 at SBK.com list Aaron as finishing in 16th, but team press release says 18th he finished behind the Bimotas and they can't yet score points, so he gets bumped up into 16th place by default. What they don't say is that 16th is still effectively almost last (I shouldn't even count Rizmayer as there is no way he should even be in WSB and is only there because of injury and being Hungarian!). Chaz Davies went into he pits after his crash with Haslam and was 5 laps down, so hardly 'beaten'. If may was saving hsi engine why even ride to the end of pit lane for the start? I can see a big fine or at least a warning for EBR coming from DORNA before long for 'refusing to race' or 'unsporting conduct'. Saving a NEW engine for your home race by deliberately refusing to race is just the pits in a so far debacle filled season and just shows the desperate measures they have fallen to Very sad. | ||
| 46champ |
So do I get this right? For every engine you use over 8 you have to start 1 race from the pit. Matt I don't think they should stop racing what they should do is finish out the season running the rest of the European Superstock season. But not until after Laguna Seca because I am going to that race. | ||
| Jens |
German media says all engines the Team used came straight from the Factory in the USA. The Teams Engine Engineer was replaced by Ben Fox, a hired hand who must have a name in AMA Racing? http://www.foxperformanceengines.com Looks for me he is original a Ducati man? So at Laguna East Troy is in charge, 3 riders, a well known track and fresh engines. A classic "if the flag drops -the bullshit stops" situation. To all you who go there, stay safe and have a great race weekend! | ||
| Classax |
Totally disappointing. I hope Dorna slaps them with a hefty fine. | ||
| Jaimec |
I canceled the WSBK schedule from my DVR. No Yamaha, no REAL BMW presence, and I find out more about EBR from here than I do from watching the broadcasts. What's the point? | ||
| Rubberdown |
Uh?.hello... really good racing?? Jeez. | ||
| Albert666 |
i have no sympathy for melandri, he's pulled enough dodgy moves on people himself and the ebr's? 3 second a lap faster on conventional brakes in testing? a homologation road bike in the pipeline perhaps? | ||
| Fuzzz |
All other arguments aside, it will interesting to see how Pegram's crew will fare against Hero's.... | ||
| Jaimec |
"Really good racing" doesn't mean anything if you don't give a **** who wins. At least, not to me. |
