| Author |
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Xb1125r
| | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 04:48 pm: | 
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very cool |
Firstbuell
| | Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 05:46 pm: |
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all I can say is that double-A-Ron is gonna be a different rider from ANYONE with whom Erik's team has dealt
EBR basically slid Steel's privateer BMW out & their 1190RS in - even the same AZ-based crew
it's gonna be interesting! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 07:58 am: |
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So maybe it was as much about the riders team as it was about the rider. Makes sense. |
Riohondohank
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:20 pm: |
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Aaron Yates on Pit Pass Radio. Mention of WSBK.
http://www.pitpassradio.com/podcast/index.php?id=1 135 |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:03 pm: |
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Well it sounds like the leg is bothering him at times. I'm glad to see him out there none the less. Met him back in his Yosh days. He was alot more approachable then his teamate Mladin. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:23 pm: |
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That would be very cool.
How would the 1190RS fit in the WSBK class structure? How modified are you allowed to make the WSBK's? Will it be anywhere close to a level playing field, or will the 1190 be running against bikes that cost 4x as much to get into the "as raced" state? |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:30 pm: |
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Bill,
I'd have say the bikes in WSB are 3 times the amount. But I'd be willing to bet if what Aaron is saying is true and there will be another set of bikes.... those bikes will be putting out a few more HP as Erik has said there is more power to be had in the EBR. None the less interesting to see. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 06:28 am: |
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How would the 1190RS fit in the WSBK class structure? How modified are you allowed to make the WSBK's? Will it be anywhere close to a level playing field, or will the 1190 be running against bikes that cost 4x as much to get into the "as raced" state?
There are HUGE differences between WSB spec bikes and AMA bikes these days. You could even say that WSBK bikes are just like Nascar in that they share very little with their road based cousins.
In WSBK you can change all sorts of things such as swingarms, suspension, fuel tank location and size, bodywork (so long as it looks vagulely like the original!) in addition to almost unlimited electronics packages and engine tuning. Think of AMA Superbike more as Superstock spec rather than WSBK and you wouldn't be far wrong.
DORNA are trying to get the WSBK teams to limit the price of individual WSBK machines to €250,000 in future (without accounting fro damage) but that is really nowhere near the cost it takes to get one on track these days. I think a decent factory bike (BMW/Kawasaki/Aprilia) would be around the same as a CRT GP bike at €1M by the time they are ready to race, and including development costs etc.
Then add the huge logistics budget required to run a WSBK team and the AMA classes look like cut price club racing in comparison 
having said that......The EBR bikes are not starting at the same point as the 'traditional' WSBK class, as most start as mass produced bikes not hand built machines like the EBR. The EBR bikes will already have a lot of top line features that most race bikes have to add as extras, such as bespoke suspenions and hand selected engine components, so you could probably build one for WSBK use for a lot less than say a Yamaha R1 or Kawasaki ZX10 (or even a KTM RC8R). |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 07:45 am: |
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Great information, thanks! |
46champ
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 10:47 am: |
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How do they get around the production # requirement that WSB has. 100 bikes is no where near 3000. Or is there a lessor amount that makes it legal for 1 race. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:17 am: |
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I posted this in another thread but it belongs here.
I think the build number is 3000 and these have to be actually built not planned.
I could see Dorna saying "any bike homologated for the home series can be entered as a wild card entery for the home race provided the rider is not a series regular." That wouold open the door for ENR and maybe some other bikes in other countries WITHOUT allowing a manufactuer to build a very trick special for the home country series and then drop a top WBSK rider on it for one round.
kinda doubt it would make any sense for big guys to do this as the WBSK bikes are so far beyond anything raced in national series that I can't see what advantage they would get.
Also as much as I would love to see an EBR out there at Laguna I have to wonder how far back they might run. Those WSBK bikes are very, very trick and far faster than anything in the AMA. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:24 am: |
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I can possibly see a situation where DORNA may be willing to waive the Homologation rule for a wild card and most importantly NON POINTS SCORING entry, but it would open the door for other non homologated bikes to do the same in future, and I really can't see the big factories being happy with that.
It would also be of limited value to EBR to enter on a non scoring basis other than to get a little TV publicity outside the US.
It may of course depend on the size of the regular WSBK grid this year. If the organisers have any spare space left for wild card riders they may be more accomodating. if there are significant spare places available they may want to encourage the likes of EBR to enter the series and will bend/ignore the homologation rules to suit. If the grids are full to bursting anyway they won't need to encourage any wild card entries at all.
At the moment it looks like there will be around 20 full time WSBK teams so there is space for wild cards if they want them. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 01:09 pm: |
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Non scoring would be cool, and meet the needs. It would give groups like EBR the chance to try and drum up some publicity to maybe get to a place where they could meet the homologation rules. Put in a qualifying bar you have to get over to keep the "Rock Page TV Reality Series" people from creating dangerous situations or making a mockery of it.
Probably a bigger problem for sponsors that did step up with big money to pay what took to get a real entry... who then see their sponsorship dilluted by "the cheap seats" on the same track. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 01:29 pm: |
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Are there any other small guys currently running other national series that would be in the same boat?
And Mat you are right about the grid size. It woudl be purley a way to fill the grid. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 01:59 pm: |
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It would be very interesting to hear Erik's take on what it would take to make an 1190RS competitive in WSB. A related question is it even practical to do for one race, or would it require truck loads of cash just to build a one-off, one race bike. |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:12 pm: |
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AMA Superbike 2012 Miller Motorsports Park final qualifying results:
1. Josh Hayes (Yamaha) 1:49.729
2. Blake Young (Suzuki) 1:50.141
3. Geoff May (EBR) 1:50.219
4. Danny Eslick (EBR) 1:50.355
5. Roger Lee Hayden (Suzuki) 1:50.358
Full qualifying times (1) for the sixth round of the 2012 World Superbike Championship at Miller Motorsports Park, United States
1. Jakub Smrz CZE Liberty Effenbert Ducati 1098R 1m 49.842s
2. Carlos Checa ESP Althea Ducati 1098R 1m 49.912s
3. Marco Melandri ITA BMW Motorrad S1000RR 1m 50.038s
4. Max Biaggi ITA Aprilia Racing RSV-4 1m 50.091s
5. Davide Giugliano ITA Althea Ducati 1098R 1m 50.280s
6. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Effenbert Liberty Ducati 1098R 1m 50.312
7. Jonathan Rea GBR Honda WSBK CBR1000RR 1m 50.358s
8. Eugene Laverty IRL Aprilia Racing RSV-4 1m 50.428s
9. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1m 50.433s
10. Leon Camier GBR Crescent Fixi Suzuki GSX-R1000 1m 50.520s |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:14 pm: |
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Are they both on similar qualifying tires? Or are the AMA tires worse? |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:16 pm: |
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AMA Superbike 2012 Miller Motorsports Park final qualifying results:
1. Josh Hayes (Yamaha) 1:49.729
2. Blake Young (Suzuki) 1:50.141
3. Geoff May (EBR) 1:50.219
4. Danny Eslick (EBR) 1:50.355
5. Roger Lee Hayden (Suzuki) 1:50.358
Full qualifying times (1) for the sixth round of the 2012 World Superbike Championship at Miller Motorsports Park, United States
1. Jakub Smrz CZE Liberty Effenbert Ducati 1098R 1:49.842s
2. Carlos Checa ESP Althea Ducati 1098R 1:49.912s
3. Marco Melandri ITA BMW Motorrad S1000RR 1:50.038s
4. Max Biaggi ITA Aprilia Racing RSV-4 1:50.091s
5. Davide Giugliano ITA Althea Ducati 1098R 1:50.280s
6. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Effenbert Liberty Ducati 1098R 1:50.312
7. Jonathan Rea GBR Honda WSBK CBR1000RR 1:50.358s
8. Eugene Laverty IRL Aprilia Racing RSV-4 1:50.428s
9. Tom Sykes GBR Kawasaki Racing ZX-10R 1:50.433s
10. Leon Camier GBR Crescent Fixi Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:50.520s
There can be a lot of discussion around fuel and tires, but it is a reality check for those who think AMA and EBR are slow... Most people say that the fuel is better in WSBK.
Now Miller is a handling track and the EBR's are worse off at speed tracks, but the performance there seems respectable.
(Message edited by reepicheep on January 31, 2013) to clarify some inconsistent formatting on times and combine a double post. No material changes to content.
(Message edited by reepicheep on January 31, 2013) |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:32 pm: |
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I think they are running different track configurations for the two events. Nobody wanted to see a direct comparison. |
Unique_id
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 04:56 pm: |
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This is a good article on the comparison.
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ama-wsbk-ti me-comparison-miller-motorsports-park/ |
Imonabuss
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 07:55 pm: |
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They actually do run the same track. Also, the info I had must have been early qualifying in WSBK. Once they get to Superpole, they go harder. I called around to talk with some experienced race guys, and they said the WSBK oxygenated fuel was worth about 15HP over the Sunoco 260. Maybe more at the high altitude of Miller. Also the WSBK guys run qualifying tires, which are not allowed in AMA. The feedback was that fuel and tires are worth over a second a lap. So the EBR's certainly wouldn't be at the front, but still not bad. Especially considering who they are, and the cost of equipment difference.
Don't know whether it will actually happen for EBR to run in WSBK, but it would be cool. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 08:11 pm: |
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Good info, thanks |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 08:50 pm: |
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I'd buy a special edition EBR WSBK shirt to get a rider out there! |
Firstbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 09:44 pm: |
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well, whether it's gonna be at Laguna Seca or Miller, you'd better get an EBR SBK hoodie instead......brrr |
