| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
From what I understand, the satellite teams were actually all for abandoning the Rookie rule too. http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-rook ie-rule-marc-marquez-201/ So "The Ben Spies Rule" (which was probably instigated by Honda to not let him ride for the factory right off the bat) has been overruled for the "Marc Marquez" rule. As for Ben, I understand he destroyed his tires, and in his words "went into damage control" for the latter part of the race. Strange, because Ben is USUALLY pretty easy on his tires. I'm sure his crew will be analyzing the data to see what happened. Kudos to Crutchlow. Tech3 seems to specialize in riders who do well "riding hurt." Didn't Edwards take his only podium last year at this same race with a fractured collar bone? | ||
| Davegess |
What happened with Hayden's Duc? He was very fast for bit and then lost it. Looked like tires but I was surprised that he was up front for as long as he was. The Ducs have been lucky to get one good lab in the dry. And speaking of Ducati; they seem to have completely lost their way. The are famous of making a good chassis but they can't seem to figure this out. How can yo be brilliant in the wet and awful int the dry? It is far more than he old "rain helps the slow bikes" saw. They are not just getting a bit of a leveler playing field they are just much better in the wet than everyone else. Why can't they figure this out? Do they not really understand the problem? I know I guy who may be able to help them for a price  | ||
| Jaimec |
Nicky's tires went off in the latter stages of the race too. | ||
| Trojan |
I think it is the easy 'get out' for riders to blame their tyres this weekend......except that every rider bar one used exactly the same compound front and rear tyres, so you can't explain how some had few problems and others went backwards that easily. The only rider to use the hard rear tyre was Rossi, which also goes some way to underline just how lost Ducati are in terms of basic setup information. Hayden was on the soft rear, Rossi on the hard rear yet neither were anywhere near competitive over race distance. Here is a picture of Crutchlows rear trye immediately after the race. Take a look at the left side of the rear tyre and you'll see it is very very worn indeed. They all used an assymetric tyre with the left side being a softer compound. However he set the fastest laps of all in the latter stages of the race, so obviously felt comfortable even with the tyre pretty much destroyed.  I think in the end it isn't so much the actual tyre wear as the confidence of the rider to push hard on worn tyres. Ben Spies has suffered more than a few crashes this year and probably hasn't got the confidence in the bike to push really hard on worn tyres like he might have done last year. | ||
| Trojan |
From what I understand, the satellite teams were actually all for abandoning the Rookie rule too. They had little or no choice unfortunately. Marquez has one of the richest/largest/well funded teams in Moto2 right now and they ALL want to move to MotoGP together as a complete entity. This meant that the satellite teams would have had to effectively dismantle their entire operation and ditch long term sponsors just to accomdate Marquez and his retinue for one season before he ran off to HRC, leaving the team with nothing. The rookie rule is the best thing to happen to satellite teams for years, and now it has gone they will all suffer in exactly the same way they used to before it was introduced. i.e. no star rider, no sponsors  The teams should have stood together and basically told Marquez that if he wanted to make the move to MotoGP then he had to do so without his entourage and that he had to race in a satellite team the same as everyone else. It worked perfectly well for Ben Spies and Marco Simoncelli remember, both of whom were considerably more experienced than Marquez is now. Marquez, it must be remembered, hasn't won a Moto2 title yet, and I really hope he never does. What will Dorna do if Espagaro wins this year instead? Now that I am on my soapbox.....Dorna seem to have lost the plot completely on the future of MotoGP yet again. First they say that the future lies in CRT, and they make a rule that factories can only supply 2 factory bikes and 2 satellite bikes maximum, then they hint that if the factories reduce the lease price they can supply as many as they like to whoever can afford them. Now they throw out a rule that was widely welcomed by all the teams back in 2010 just to accomodate a very rich team with one young rider who hasn't even ridden a MotoGP bike yet. So next year, amongst other things, we don't know if there will be 4 Hondas or 14 Hondas, 4 Ducatis or no Ducatis, what happens to the teams who have invested heavily in CRT, where do private teams secure sponsorship if they cannot hire up and coming good young riders? madness....Now breath...... | ||
| Jaimec |
Casey may have the right idea after all. | ||
| Trojan |
At least Paul Bird Motorsport had some good news at Silevrstone, announcing that they would use an all British chassis next year in their CRT bike, and will definitely run a two rider team. No chassis has been named, but it would make sense for them to speak to Norton, who have already built a (Spondon) chassis to house the Aprilia motor for the IOM this year. The Senior TT race was cancelled so we never saw the full potential of the bike in the IOM, but it would make a lot of sense for PBM and Norton to team up for CRT MotoGP next year  I would expect either Shakey Byrne or maybe a young British Supersport or Moto2 rider to make up the second rider placing. Scott Redding? Gino Rea? Sam or Alex Lowes? I know they won't be knocking on the door of podium finishes or even top 6 places, but it is nice to see a new (non Spanish) team looking to expand next year rather than trying to get out! | ||
| Simond |
I heard Derek Redmond talking about a possible CRT entry next year too. The way he was talking made it sound like he had eyes on the Spondon (Norton) chassis too! It seems like a bit of a leap to go from BSB back-marker to MotoGP but who knows? | ||
| Jaimec |
Maybe being a backmarker for MotoGP is more prestigious than being a backmarker in WSBK? Hey, I've got a GREAT IDEA! Maybe they should sign Johnny Rock Page as their rider while they're at it! | ||
| Trojan |
It seems like a bit of a leap to go from BSB back-marker to MotoGP but who knows? I think the Redmond/Splitlath team have delusions of grandeur and need to get their logistics and team setup sorted before going to MotoGP. They are already overstretched with BSB and endurance racing so they will have to drop some projects, hire some decent staff and raise a lot of money before they can even think about GP racing! back to the silly season.....The weeks MCN says that Ducati offered Cal Crutchlow a 2 year deal at Silverstone to ride in the factory team alongside Rossi. No mention from Guareschi of trying to retain Hayden at all, but he says they are trying 100% to retain Rossi, so Nicky could be looking for a new job by November Hayden says that he hasn't talked to Ducati yet about next year (or any other teams) so I think his only slim chance of remaining at Ducati is if Rossi goes AWOL and somehow manages to sign for Honda to replace Pedrosa......stranger things have happened | ||
| Jaimec |
This, despite the fact that Nicky's been doing better and riding more consistently than his team mate? Nice logic there... Nicky really should go where he'd be appreciated. I'm sure there are PLENTY of teams in WSBK that would snap him up in a heart beat. (Message edited by jaimec on June 20, 2012) | ||
| Trojan |
I think Nicky will probably stay at Ducati if Rossi decides to push off for pastures new, but what has Hayden to gain by staying with Ducati for another year? He has scored just 5 podiums in 5 years at the team, with none since 2010. So although he may be good for US sales and is a nice guy, good company man and team player, they may just decide they want a young rider to try and tame the GP13 next year (and who knows, they may even have solved the problems by then!) or he may decide that flogging a dead horse isn't as much fun as it once was and retire to WSB. He has already said he wouldn't go back to AMA racing so WSB would be his only route unless he fancies joining CEII in the CRT ranks. As for Nicky doing better and riding more consistently than his team mate, that actually isn't true. After the last GP Rossi is in 6th spot with 58 points and Hayden is 9th with 49. However, I don't think the company are that bothered about positons outside the top 3 by either rider. The difference between 6th and 9th mean very little to a factory team and neither are satisfacory as far as they are concerned. I think it will be interesting to see how the new Ducati engine to be introduced at Laguna changes the team dynamic at Ducati (or not). If it shows real progress then Rossi may be tempted to stay for another year. If it just re-arranges the deckchairs on the Titanic again then expect him to announce he is leaving very shortly afterwards to set up his own mega team, with Ducati then wooing Hayden again......or maybe looking at Iannone or Redding instead now that the rookie rule has been comprehensively binned in an obvious and cyncial sop to Honda and Repsol. They may be tempted to think that getting a young fearless, ambitious (and cheap) rider unused to Japanese GP machines to ride alongside Crutchlow is the answer.....it worked when they signed Stoner after all. | ||
| Jaimec |
Rossi has flashes of brilliance (highlighted by his podium in the rain) and depressingly poor results. Nicky's been pretty consistent from race to race. The points don't reflect what I was trying to say. Remember in 2006, Rossi won more races, but Nicky took the championship. During the AMA heydays of "Mladin-vs-Spies" Mat took more race victories, but Ben won the title three years in a row. Even in the hated "800cc era" of MotoGP, Casey Stoner won more races than Valentino Rossi, but Rossi won more championships. Consistency counts. | ||
| Bads1 |
Pretty much what happened in AMA Superbike last year Hayes vs Young. Hayes was just more consistent. | ||
| Bads1 |
Great to see that Aaron Yates is returning to racing and will be a wild card on a GSXR 1000 powered CRT at Indy. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=4 8701 | ||
| Xb1125r |
ducati needs to get rid of Rossi, his talent cant hadle the ducati | ||
| Jaimec |
A good analysis of "Silly Season 2012" from Asphalt & Rubber: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-sill y-season-update-2012/ | ||
| Jaimec |
Wow! This is interesting news: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/honda-rc213 v-production-racer-motogp/ Even more revealing is the number of engines Biaggi goes through in a season... | ||
| Bads1 |
Thats very interesting. | ||
| Simond |
Not quite sure why they are talking about a CRT bike when it is based on the RC213V and will have a lease cost of just under €1m..... or did I miss something? Surely it's just a cheaper (presumably less competitive) customer prototype bike. I wonder how the costs of running this would compare to running the ART bikes. The only thing is you'd be last of the prototypes instead of first of the CRT bikes. The number of engines that Biaggi uses has been well publicised and is why the ART bikes are down on power compared to the the WSB version. | ||
| Trojan |
Oh the arrogance of HRC....'It's not a CRT bike'? Yes it is, live with it! If the idea is to sell these to teams rather than lease them then it is a CRT bike and gets all the advantages in terms of engines and extra fuel capacity. If it is leased then it is a factory prototype and falls into line with the other satellite and factory bikes in terms of rules. Now all we need is for Yamaha/Suzuki to make a customer purchase GP bike and we will be on the right track for increasing grid sizes again Maybe they could call them TZ or RG..... | ||
| Jaimec |
I find it kind of amusing that the prototype engines used in MotoGP are apparently more reliable and durable than the "production engines" used in WSBK. There seems to be something "backwards" about that! | ||
| Trojan |
If the rules were the same between series then maybe that would be a fair point, but WSB engines don't have a 'life' and can be changed every time the rider thinks he hears a funny noise. Becauswe MotoGP/CRT/Moto2 engines have a definite life they are 'downtuned' for reliability. Obviously you can't compare prototype engines with pneumatic valves etc. against production based motors, but cartainly the WSB Aprilia engine is around 20bhp better than the CRT engine, and WSS Hoda CBR600 engines are again around 20bhp better than Moto2 engines. There is a rumour that WSB will introduce similar engine life rules, along with stick on headlights and other silly rules, although engine rules would actually make a lot more sense in a production based championship than in MotoGP. There is of course considerable resistance to any change of rules from teams and factories (surprise surprise). | ||
| Jaimec |
What I found surprising is that the year they imposed the 6 engine limit, the engines that year were apparently as powerful (if not moreso) and the bikes were even faster than the year before. Now THAT'S technology that would benefit street bikes for sure! | ||
| Sidepipe79 |
In WSBK they dont change the engine if they hear a noise. The engine gets changed at specific frequency. Lets say one engine for practice and qualifying. New engine for race 1 and Race two. Cant afford a DNF if the "used" engine blows up. | ||
| Jaimec |
When I attended my first MotoGP (at Laguna Seca in 2005(?)) I got a tour of the Ducati garage courtesy of my friend who worked for Philip Morris at the time. Checa and Capirossi were the riders at the time. The mechanics showed us a shelf full of engines. At the time, every engine was used JUST ONCE. After each running, the engine was swapped out and sent back to Italy for analysis. Every practice, every qualifying, every race. In one race weekend they went through as many engines as they now do in an entire YEAR. That blew my mind. Almost sounds like they do the same thing in WSBK. | ||
| Trojan |
In WSBK they dont change the engine if they hear a noise. The engine gets changed at specific frequency. There are of course the 'regular frequency' changes but they will also change an engine if they suspect there may be even a slight engine problem (because it is sometimes quicker and easier to fit a new engine than actually identifying the problem and fixing it on the bike in the time available ), which is what I meant by 'hearing a noise'. They can then rotate that engine into the normal maintenance schedule and identify the problem then. | ||
| Trojan |
Assen this weekend with racing on Saturday rather than Sunday (don't forget!). Away from the racing there are some high level discussions on the future of MotoGP going on involving teams, Dorna and FIM etc. It looks like a rev limit of around 15K and a spec ECU (or at least some kind of restriction) will make their way into the rule book for 2015, with a few of th eother publicised suggested rules getting binned altogether (the one bike per rider rule for one). The factories will of course complain about whatever rules are imposed on them, but they get what they deserve now It would also seem that the GP for Texas is almost a 90% certainly on for 2013, but Dorna say that there will NOT however be 3 rounds in the US next year. Both Laguna and Indianapolis have contracts signed for 2013 so one of them is going to be very shocked and disapointed I think. The season will also have 2 extra fly away races next year, in Argentina and India, which makes a bit of a mockery of the cost cutting measures and fuel limits they impose on teams for race day There is still the possibility of 4 rounds in Spain though...surprise surprise. | ||
| Davegess |
Both Laguna and Indianapolis have contracts signed for 2013 If that is the case they are going to have to pay one of them to go away or risk a very involved lawsuit. Indy will not be shy about going to court. | ||
| Jaimec |
Dave: You took the words right out of my mouth! |
