| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Rocco, I'm having a nice friendly conversation with my friend Dana. I don't know what your problem is, but it's been getting worse and worse lately. Your rudeness and lack of basic manners is unacceptable. I've given you a pass on it for some time out of deference for your tenure here and having met you a time or two but enough is enough. Either tone it down or avoid posting. | ||
| Svh |
Blake have you watched any of the videos of the accident? If yes then I have no idea how you can ask "What impact?" What do you think made Rossi's front end bounce to the right approximately a foot? The impact was between Rossi's front tire and Colin's bike with that unfortunate helmet and its occupant between. Marco's father said he was gone before they put him on the gurney. Do you still not believe he passed instantly? | ||
| Blake |
Dana, By "what impact" I was asking what type of impact caused the damage, not disputing that there was an impact of some sort. I simply reject your claim that a damaged helmet shell means fatal head trauma. That is just not true. Helmets are in fact designed to suffer fracture in the shell as part of the energy absorption scheme used to protect the brain. We really don't even know if the damage shown happened before or after the helmet strap broke and the helmet flew off Marco's head. Seems likely it was before, but we just don't know. Also, we don't yet know what specific trauma caused Marco's death, and even if we knew it was head trauma, we'd have no way of knowing ourselves if it occurred before or after his helmet broke the strap and flew off. All I'm saying is that more information is needed. | ||
| Blake |
Rocco, >>> It must be tough lugging around that giant head of yours so full of knowledge. It's more difficult in the company of small minded types who fly off the handles in the presence of thoughtful intellectual debate. >>> Do they even make a helmet to fit that giant melon of yours? Shoei size XL works great. >>> And try and show some respect for Dana's wife. No. Contrary to your babe remark and your idea that it would be a complement from a knob such as yourself, I can guarantee she finds no complement in it. When it comes to relationships and what behavior is considered acceptable, you're among the last on the planet who I'd take advise from. >>> Again, your trying to prove more than you know in a field (medicine) than you actually do. Contrary to your assertion, I make no medical analysis whatsoever. Nor am I trying to prove anything. We're just discussing helmet design. Helmets are indeed designed to suffer significant damage to their outer shell for the express purpose of protecting the wearer's brain from fatal injury. >>> We all know your love of charts and graphs, but a crushed head of a motorcyclist coming into a hospital would prove you wrong. No, it wouldn't. First, it doesn't take a crushed head to kill someone from brain trauma, just excessive concussive trauma to the brain. The skull may remain intact. >>> Helmets are designed for a singular impact, not multiple impacts and being run over by other bikes. Inaccurate. The Snell folks mandate two impact survivability. Amazing what my over-sized head recollects from reading just an article or two on the issue. >>> All the design programs and computer simulations can't be wrong though, huh? I have no idea what you are referring to. | ||
| Jaimec |
Reports I read said Colin slammed into Marco's torso, and Vale slammed right into his helmeted head. A four hundred pound motorcycle with 120 pounds of rider aboard traveling in excess of 100 mph would be enough to kill a rider if he were struck in the head, helmet or not. | ||
| Trojan |
Also, we don't yet know what specific trauma caused Marco's death, and even if we knew it was head trauma, we'd have no way of knowing ourselves if it occurred before or after his helmet broke the strap and flew off. Marco experienced significant injuries to his thorax, neck and head. Any one of which may have been enough to kill him apparently. He had blood drained fom his thorax in the ambulance so it is likely that the chest injury was worse than has been reported, and there has been very little mention of the extent of the neck injury. However the force required to separate a helmet chin strap from the helmet shell would obviously cause huge stresses on the neck and this alone may have been enought to cause his death. I'm sure we will learn more over the next few weeks and there will undoubtedly be improvements in safety equipment and procedures following this tragedy. Ultimately however there are some accident scenarios that you just can't protect against, and being hit hard by another motorcycle seems to be one of them. Both Marco's and Tomizawa's fatal accidents have remarkable similarities and maybe there is something for the safety authorities to learn from them yet. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I mourn the passing of a loved and talented kid, and I hope we can learn how to protect other racers better. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> Marco experienced significant injuries to his thorax, neck and head. Any one of which may have been enough to kill him apparently. Key word being "may"; we just don't know. Anything postulated at this point is just speculation. More information is needed. I hope it is discovered and reported. >>> He had blood drained from his thorax in the ambulance so it is likely that the chest injury was worse than has been reported... What is worse than "very serious trauma to the head, to the neck and the chest"? "Fatal trauma"? I've been intubated and had significant blood drained from my thorax due to punctured lung and pneumothorax. I absolutely would have died if not for emergency care. The presence of blood in the thorax is not in and of itself indicative of a fatal injury. It can be treatable. I sure am thankful for that. >>> ... there has been very little mention of the extent of the neck injury. However the force required to separate a helmet chin strap from the helmet shell would obviously cause huge stresses on the neck and this alone may have been enough to cause his death. Has there been any substantive reporting on any of the injuries other than what was stated at the track that day? As to the helmet strap, you're speculating. I agree it is possible, but I really have no idea. Other possibilities are numerous. More information is needed. I hope we learn more. | ||
| Blake |
Jaimie, >>> Reports I read said Colin slammed into Marco's torso, and Vale slammed right into his helmeted head. What reports? "Slammed right into"? The reports said that? What I saw via video was more of a meat grinder tangle of bikes and riders. Marco was not lying stationary on the track when he was struck. No doubt the mass of the bikes that Marco was trapped between and under was enough to kill. Closing speed was significant too. Without more information it is impossible to reject the possibility that the helmet coming off may have contributed to his death. I don't understand why some, absent more facts, are so eager to try to refute that possibility. For all we know, the helmet's damage may have occurred after coming off Marco's head. It too was among the tangle of bikes. | ||
| Blake |
I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him. | ||
| Blake |
Interesting comment from James Toseland: Toseland, who retired from racing due to injury, commented on the speculation that Gresini Honda would withdraw from the final round at Valencia. "I don't think the championship should stop. It needs to go on, and it would be a massive tribute to Marco. It's what happens. Motorcycling is a great, great sport, and there are a lot of people who love it. Yes, it's a real shock but it will go on." I agree. Read more: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-mo to-gp/toseland-motogp-must-go-on-for-marco/19319.h tml#ixzz1c5iT6ltb | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Marco sure wouldn't have wanted the race cancelled" | ||
| Jaimec |
Blake, you're a PITA. I've got to learn to bookmark EVERY FRIGGIN' ARTICLE I read on the internet so when you inevitably say "What article, where?" I don't have to go hunting all over Google for it. Can't find it now, but I did find ONE article that said his helmet wasn't fastened properly. First (and so far only) time I've seen that written anywhere (and do your own damned Google search for it). If you have a hundred witnesses to an incident, you will get a hundred different descriptions. On another note, Colin Edwards will not make the last round in Valencia. He's had his last ride on a Yamaha (for now). Be interesting to see how he can develop the CRT bike next season. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
"Blake. Stick it where the sun don't shine" Rocco Scola | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I don't think what Marco "would have wanted" makes one fricking bit of difference. What was probably more pressing on the minds of the officials is what was best for the other riders. I've watched the coverage a number of times and not one of them looked ready, willing or able to hop back on their bike and go battle on the track. I believe they do one hell of a tribute at the last race. None of which will be covered by Speed or any other of our pathetic sport chanels | ||
| Blake |
Jamie, I am a stickler for facts. Sorry to be such a hassle for you. I tried google. No luck. The helmet strap didn't break at the fastener. It was pretty clear from the video that the strap detached from where it was anchored on one side of the helmet's shell. Rocco, I'm embarrassed for your childish behavior here. If what you are saying is true, that the other riders in know way could have re-entered the track after a reasonable break and then finished the race, then I would agree. I personally just don't buy it. You seem able to mind read from a photograph or brief video clip. That is beyond me. (Message edited by blake on October 28, 2011) | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"You seem able to mind read from a photograph or brief video clip. That is beyond me. " Says the man who knows what Marco wanted | ||
| Blake |
The difference is I'm not basing that opinion merely on a photograph, but on what I know about racing competition, competitors, the spirit and personality of Marco himself, and the fans, millions of them who tuned in to watch a race, and the 70,000 who paid to do so in person. That is an incredibly wide range of sources informing that view. You on the other hand are once again enjoining discussion solely to engage in personal commentary about me. As I've said so many times already, it's tiresome and unappreciated. You need to stop it. | ||
| Blake |
Josh Hayes to ride in place of injured Colin Edwards' Tech 3 Yamaha for final race of 2011... From a press release issued by Teknic: | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Blake - youre right, it is personal commentary about you....cause youre the one who said what I quoted. Just as youve done to anyone youve ever quoted or I to anyone that I have ever quoted or Rocco or anyone. Its nothing personal against you, its merely pointing out that you are making it seem that you know what Marco wanted but yet when people say what they think another racer wanted (based on a video clip or picture) you say that they are wrong. And please stop assuming I only came into this thread to personally attack you or whatever. That is silly. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I wish Hayes the best of luck on the grand stage of MotoGP. I hope he does well against the competition | ||
| Blake |
>>> but yet when people say what they think another racer wanted (based on a video clip or picture) you say that they are wrong. Inaccurate. What I stated: "You seem able to mind read from a photograph or brief video clip. That is beyond me." You no read good. I have a feeling that Hayes is going to be sorely embarrassed, though he shouldn't be. New racing class, new bike, new track, new team, new tires. If he finishes top twelve, it will be a miracle. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
ole double standard blake, always making us laugh | ||
| Blake |
I think you are just entertaining yourself there sparky. You speak falsely. You claim I asserted someone was "wrong". I stated no such thing. Now go away and don't come back until you've learned to actually comprehend what you read rather than making up your own narratives. | ||
| Gaesati |
How did a sad thread about a racer's death turn into such a childish argument? A thread is not a competition, there are no points for winning and no prizemoney. Marco died, the race was cancelled for a variety of reasons by the people responsible for making the decision and, doubtless a full investigation will occur in time. It's probably time to let the discussion rest. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
No, its not just me. Its bad when youre at a Buell event and people are talking about the owner of BadWeb. I have no plans of going away, I've done nothing wrong. And no, disagreeing with Blake isnt anything 'wrong' | ||
| 12x9sl |
I agree with Gaesati. Blake, I'm sure you are a great guy. You have a great thing here, why muddy the waters unnecessarily? (Message edited by 12x9sl on October 29, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Muddy the waters? I'm interested in what specifically caused Marco's death. I don't agree with the speculations some have asserted. I don't care for the personal commentary. It is bewildering how some are unable to stick to friendly topical discussion. You're barking up the wrong tree on this one. | ||
| Blake |
HMP, >>> No, its not just me. Its bad when you're at a Buell event and people are talking about the owner of BadWeb. You've joined a dismal cabal of trolls in such assertions. I suppose you have emails too. I like what Eleanor Roosevelt once said: Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. I'm not trying to place in a popularity contest. Frankly I don't like most people, you included, based on your behavior here, butting in and pontificating, stalking me from one thread to another. Given that, I figure it is being incredibly gracious allowing such a one to continue using my web site. How do you figure otherwise? After misrepresenting what I stated, such behavior is beyond arrogant, disrespectful, and inconsiderate. It's just plain dishonest. Why do you figure I ought to put up with that miserableness Mr. Owens? I just want to enjoy discussion with thoughtful people. Grandstanding critics and arrogant pontificators interjecting misleading personal commentary are unwelcome here. You agreed to honor the requests of custodians here. Either do so, or lose posting privileges. Simple. (Message edited by Blake on October 29, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Gaesati, Sorry to offend you. Not our intent. This is the general MotoGP thread though, not one dedicated to Marco or his tragic accident. |
