| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
I'll believe that when I see Rossi or Lorenzo trash talking the competition in the pre-race interviews... | ||
| Trojan |
There is certainly an element of the press that enjoys trying to turn natural rivalry into aggressive confrontation. The relationship between Lorenzo and Rossi was businesslike but not ffriendly, yet the press would try to have us believe they never spoke and were fighting like cat and dog behind the garage doors. juts journalistic licence and dramatic flavouring unfortunately and it has been going on for as long as I can remember in racing (Bill Ivy vs Phil Read for instance!) | ||
| Lightstick |
Hmmm. Nobody has commented on the fact that Spies was faster than Lorenzo in Sepang. I think Horhie Boy is going to have his hands full staying Top Dog on the Yamaha team. | ||
| Trojan |
Hmmm. Nobody has commented on the fact that Spies was faster than Lorenzo in Sepang. I think Horhie Boy is going to have his hands full staying Top Dog on the Yamaha team. testing is testing, so you never know who is testing what or who is really faster in a race situation until the season starts and the flag drops at the first race. I think it will be close at Yamaha but I reckon that the friendly terms between Lorenzo and Spies will eveporate pretty quick if he is faster than Jorge. I think he would even get Yamaha to make sure he is number one as reigning champion and team number one. Colin Edwards is also always fast in testing year in year out (he has often been called the 'winter world champion!), but never seems able to make that translate into race results for whatever reason. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Spies also had a better race simulation than Lorenzo. | ||
| Jaimec |
And I think both "Brand Y" boys are leaning HEAVILY on the factory for SOME kind of response to Honda... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Actually it is Lorenzo that is *complaining*. Spies sounds happy and confident. Lorenzo might have started to get worried about Spies. For some reason I think that Spies will go for many wins and he will surprise people this year. If there was a 3rd factory M1 with Stoner on board, Yamaha would have been 1-2-3 in this year's tests. It is pretty obvious now. Stoner was the reason Honda has improved in lap times, in the tests. He sets the limit for the other Honda riders. They have Stoner's telemetry and other data , so they know what their package is capable for, and they go for it. It also seems that Stoner's work with electronics and clutch set up in Valencia and Sepang, gave good solutions for them. What happened to the *experts* that were saying that Stoner is terrible in bike development ??? So far Honda has made a big step forward , and no Honda rider is complaining, as they did last year. They put their head down and try to match Stoner. HRC are happy with their investment. Stoner is happy with his choice. He also started enjoying riding again , he completes many laps. What happened to the experts that were saying that Rossi is the bike development *god* and that Stoner had destroyed Ducati ?? Last year Stoner and Hayden were 2nd and 3rd in Sepang test 2. This year Rossi and Hayden were 11th and 12th. So what happened ??? Rossi made the Ducati bike even more difficult to ride, judging by Hayden's performance ??? Has the so much anticipated Rossi's development have gone Ducati backwards ???? | ||
| Blake |
Interesting comment in the April RRW: For what it’s worth, one of Rossi’s inner-circle says he would happily bet his house on VR winning the very first race in Qatar on March 20. So maybe the shoulder’s not quite as bad as he’s having us believe. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Anything is possible , but it doesn't look possible at this point. Hayden have gone backwards this year.........this indicates that Ducati is struggling. | ||
| Trojan |
If there was a 3rd factory M1 with Stoner on board, Yamaha would have been 1-2-3 in this year's tests. It is pretty obvious now. Aren't you forgetting the other Hondas that happened to be very fast at Sepang too? I'm sure Dovizioso, Pedrosa and Simoncelli would be aggrieved to hear that you think their times were somehow unimportant? Yamaha were the 'best of the rest' in testing this year and Ducati look worse than last year simply because Honda have got their game together at last. ALL of the Hondas struggled last year in testing which flattered the results of the others somewhat. Ducati have also had to throw away the 'Stoner' bike that nobody could ride in 2010(including Stoner on many occasions) and start again from scratch, unlike Yamaha and Honda who will basically roll out an update of the 2010 bike for this year. Stoner's 'test' times are really strange too, because he really doesn't test things very well and aas a development rider is poor. He rides as fast as he can whatever he is given to ride, which is great for rider but a disaster for a factory trying to develop a bike, because he cannot distinguish the faults and explain to the technicians in enough detail for them to fix them like other riders can. Stomer will go fast on the Honda but I guarantee his development of it will not be as effective as Pedrosa or Dovi, and by mid season they will be at each others throats! Stoner was the reason Honda has improved in lap times, in the tests. He sets the limit for the other Honda riders. They have Stoner's telemetry and other data , so they know what their package is capable for, and they go for it. It also seems that Stoner's work with electronics and clutch set up in Valencia and Sepang, gave good solutions for them. Rubbish. Stoner just rode around on last years bike for the majority of the tests. Dovi and Pedrosa were the ones testing different frames, engines etc while Stoner just did his usual trick of short bursts and no development. If Honda rely on Stoner to ddevelop their bike they will be in the same situation as Ducati found themselves in...with a bike nobody else can ride and a dead end for development. Honda already had this bike developed pretty well by the end of last season, so Stoner's input into development has been minimal at best. I for one hope that Stoner gets a good beating this year (not just by VR) and that Simoncelli shows him what 'aggressive' riding really is  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
You keep on twisting the facts, and you speak unproved theories and make things up about Stoner's testing with Honda. You are a hardcore Rossi fan that cannot see things very clearly. Everything you say is completely the opposite of what really happened in the tests. The best race simulations and the most consistent lap times were done by Stoner and Spies. The only logical explanation for hating Stoner so much , is that he is a great rider that managed to be faster than Rossi in many occasions and so far he did it on a far inferior and badly designed bike, as proven in the last months . It seems that people just cannot accept it no matter what. So far Rossi's carrer on the Duc is not going according to plan and to people expectations. On the other hand Stoner and Spies continue to perform really well on their new teams. But of course , as the *experts* have said , Yamaha will struggle without Rossi. Who is going to leave Ducati's motoGP programme first, Preziossi or Rossi ??? | ||
| Trojan |
I don't need to twist the facts. Maybe if you actually spoke to people concerned with and involved in MotoGP rather than read some of the rubbish printed by the press then you would also know exactly what goes on. Stoner did lots of laps in Speang but used the 2010 bike with very few changes for most of them. His actual 'testing' was done only after Pedrosa and Dovi had tested the different chassis and basically decided which to use anyway! I dislike Stoner because he is ignorant and rude to a lot of people around him and in the sport. In addition he must be one of the most 'unsporting sportsmen' I have ever had the misfortune to watch. he has been like this since 125 days in England and he doesn't seem to be changing too quickly to me. A little bit of humility and the ability hold his hands up and admit it when he gets it wrong would go a long way to being liked by more people. Until then I hope he gets his arse handed to him on a plate | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So , who are these people that are involved in motoGP that you actually talk to ??? You now claim that you have inside information from top motoGP teams, to justify your opinions. Get real !! After the Sepang 2 test, Stoner made a statement in the press that he chose the 2011 chassis, the stiffer one. The same day Pedrosa made a statement in the press that he has not made his choice yet. You say that the exact opposite happened, you are busted !! All of us have favourites riders, it is understantable. But to make up stories and facts just to justify our opinions and hate, it is rediculous..... | ||
| Trojan |
So , who are these people that are involved in motoGP that you actually talk to ??? You now claim that you have inside information from top motoGP teams, to justify your opinions. Get real !! That would be telling  if I start telling you who tells me things then I won't ever hear aything again! However I speak to people who are very technically astute and travel to every race You forget that Pedrosa, Dovi and the Honda test team did ALL the development work on both chassis so that Stoner could choose which to use in the first place. Stoner hasn't developed squat since joining Honda and never made a great job of developing anything at Ducati, preferring to ride around problems than to fix them. All of us have favourites riders, it is understantable. But to make up stories and facts just to justify our opinions and hate, it is rediculous..... Touche! I think you need to re-read some of your own posts on that score I have nothing against any MotoGP rider except Stoner. There are very very few people on this planet that I can actually say I hate, but he is right at the top of my list I'm afraid so I wish him no good at all this year I may be therefore biased in my opinion, but history shows this: Stoner is a very fast and comitted rider, but he couldn't develop a cold let alone a MotoGP bike on his own. His career so far has backed that up 100%. He has never developed a GP bike from scratch before and has been lucky at Ducati with the 800 bike and again this year in landing at Honda just as they have got their bike competitive again (nothing to do with his technical input !) There will be trouble between riders at Honda by mid season...mark my words (Message edited by trojan on March 01, 2011) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
There will be trouble between riders at Honda by mid season...mark my words You have been wrong many times in the past , and you will be wrong again on this one. The riders having problems in 2011 will be the Ducati riders. Preziosi has been insisting on the framless GP bike for too long. So far he found his design fantastic and he blamed the riders for not performing. So Ducati signed Rossi to fix things. But so far they go backward...... For 2011 Ducati is finished. Unless Ducati redesigns their entire bike for the 2012 they will be in trouble for the 1000cc as well. | ||
| Crusty |
I don't know anybody directly involved in Moto GP, nor am I as devout a follower of the series ans some here, but... Let me see if I've got this right. Rossi dominated on a Honda with Jeremy Burgess as his Crew Chief. He then mover to Yamaha, which to that point, hadn't been able to do squat and started winning. Now, Rossi (with Burgess) has moved to Ducati; which hasn't been able to do squat. Supposedly, the Ducks haven't got their frame and suspension upgrades, yet History has a habit of repeating itself. Personally, I like Rossi, but I don't consider myself a "Fanboy". I also like Spies, Stoner, and many others. I'd like to see Nicky Hayden have a season that rewards all the work he's put into racing. The only rider out there that I don't care for is that little rat weasel, Pedrosa. I hope he has a year full of DNFs and crashes (though I don't want to see him hurt. Nice easy lowsides caused by making stupid mistakes). I wouldn't bet against Rossi, however. | ||
| Trojan |
time will tell.......... 3 top riders in a factory team (all with different riding styles and wishes from their crew) is never smooth running. Having two (or even 3) possible championship contenders in the same garage has NEVER been without trouble in the history of racing I don't think. Pedrosa will certainly want a completely different bike than Stoner and this will manifest itself mid season rather than in testing when pretty much everything is either new or updated from last year. When it comes to mid season upgrades the battle will be between Pedrosa and Stoner (and their respective managers!) as to who gets number one status and therefore the lions share of the input into the upgrades. Dovi is in the unfortunate position of being unwanted by Honda but is there only because they couldn't wriggle out of their contract with him. I don't expect him to have much say in upgrades even in the remote possibility that he is leading teh championship. Likewise Simoncelli is still the very junior team member and although he has factory equipment I doubt he will be allowed to have the last word in terms of equipment. Honda have never been very good at managing riders and I think they will be stretched this year to keep the lid on the Repsol garage To a lesser extent I can see similar things happening atYamaha if Lorenzo starts getting beaten by Spies on a regular basis. It may be all smiles and back slapping now but it won't take much to change that! | ||
| Blake |
Been scanning back issues of RRW. Noticed the following:  The 250GP machines beat both FIM Supersport and Moto2. Highly recommend subscribing to RRW; a great magazine. Three years online with portable format for just $15. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I thought that you did not like the 2stroke racing bikes. Propably, 500cc 2strokes with current tires and electronics, would be faster than 800cc 4strokes. And more teams would have been on the grid. | ||
| Blake |
I don't! I'd not argue to bring them back, ever! I'd just like to see more potent Moto2 machines is all. I hate the socialist style, all machines are equal approach. I wish someone would create a no holds barred, run whatever you want racing series. I don't understand the continual meddling trying to limit performance in MotoGP. It would be so much more exciting if they just let the folks race whatever two wheeled contrivance they wanted. | ||
| Blake |
"Moto-Extreme"? | ||
| Jaimec |
Formula USA tried that when they first started. Only rule was "motorcycles have two wheels." Supercharged, nitrous-burning 1300cc GSXR customs ran against two-stroke 500cc GP bikes. I saw one race in this series at Pocono. The Yamaha YZR500 finished TWO LAPS ahead of the rest of the field. You think MotoGP is boring now??? In fact, there would've been TWO YZR500s that finished two laps ahead of the rest of the field, but the one that was leading crashed out just before the end. People won't come to the races if they find it boring. I can understand the promoters trying to do what they can to maintain fan interest. I understand that after 2012, the Moto2 class will no longer rely on a single engine supplier. | ||
| Slaughter |
All machines EQUAL?? It is NOT ALL ENGINE. Higbee's testing the Taylor Made Moto2 prototype machine:    | ||
| Trojan |
I don't! I'd not argue to bring them back, ever! I'd just like to see more potent Moto2 machines is all. I hate the socialist style, all machines are equal approach. Moto2 was 'supposed' to have been given engines producing in excess fo 150bhp by the engine builders contracted by Honda (can't remember the name of the company right now). However because of reliability concerns (engines have to last more than one race remember, unlike both WSS and 250GP) they ended up last year with around 120bhp instead. This affected not only lap times but also chassis manufacturers, who built chassis tocope with higher output engines and ended up with frames too stiff and plagued with chatter all year. This year the front running bikes will undoubtedly be faster and testing times are already far quicker than last years race times at most tracks. Once the Series gets established I think we'll start to see more innovation from chassis manufacturers such as Taylor Made, Lotus technology and Vyrus that will move away from the ultra conservative 'CBR600 lookalike' chassis we have seen so far in Moto2. There is also the liklihood that the one make engine rule may be relaxed in 2013 although I for one would rather it continue as it is for close and affordable (relatively speaking)racing. Now that we have Moto2 series running not only at World level but also in various national championships (with the UK/USA lagging behind as usual!) I think we will see significant developments in chassis design over the next couple of years in this class.  Lastly, the 250GP times were set at the pinnacle of the 2 stroke 250 development, and it is unlikely that they would have got much faster without a lot more development and expense. Moto2 is on its second year only so far, so has a long way to go before they are at the same level of development | ||
| Crusty |
What is this fascination with alternative front suspensions? For decades, I've been hearing about the "advantages" of various different designs, but I have yet to see any. The Elf racers never had any advantage in handling or corner speed, and the other examples that I've seen (Bimota Tesi, Yamaha GTS) haven't set the world on its ear, either. Even BMW abandoned their Telelever front end on their 1000 in favor of a telescopic fork. The only advantage that I see is for the chassis manufacturers. They get to make a lot of moving parts that will wear out quicker and charge more money for it. But it sure looks "High Tech"! | ||
| Trojan |
In theory the 'funny front ends' separate braking forces from steering forces, so should be far more efficient than conventional old fashioned telescopic forks that do have considerable theoretical downfalls. The problem is that forks have had almost 100 years of development so are now pretty good and reasonably cheap to make (so most manufacturers have an inherent interest in keeping them!), and the hub centre designs have been just too complicated and heavy so far. On top of that, motorcyclists in general are a very conservative breed, so it takes a lot to convince them of new technology that is strikingly different to what they are used to (disc brakes took a long time to be accepted too, as did cast alloy wheels!) However in Moto2, where engines are identical, any advantage you can grab with the chassis is very important and this is where the new chassis designs should work well. No dive,less tyre wear, better aerodynamics, better engine cooling are just some of the benefits if they can get it to work properly. Vyrus have gone further by introducing hydraulic steering too, which may be a step too far for some Funnily enough, it is one of the cheaper Moto2 chassis to buy from the factory, and it will be very interesting to see how it performs in the Italian Moto2 series this year. There is a road version planned and that is my dream bike! | ||
| Slaughter |
There are a couple things that work well with a Telelever-style front end such as the Taylor - but another side benefit is that the radiator air intake can be channeled THROUGH where the triple tree USED TO BE - and ducted through the chassis back to the radiator under the rider. This has dramatically reduced the frontal area of the machine. (Message edited by slaughter on March 02, 2011) | ||
| Trojan |
The Vyrus has a similar advantage - no headstock no obstruction. The new 2011 FTR and Harris Moto2 chassis are more traditional, but both have reduced the size of the headstock to almost nothing in an effort to get the airflow through into the airbox and to cool the motor. Both now use beam frames but with tubular structures to support the steering head so that more air can flow through and to adjust chassis flex better. This is the new Harris chassis, which we sadly won't be seeing in World Moto2 but is being used in Spanish competition in 2011.  | ||
| Blake |
Structurally speaking, that Harris chassis is frightening. Looks to me like it is at extreme risk of some serious fatigue cracking. Hope not for the racer's sake. | ||
| Blake |
Steve, My bad, should have clarified that I meant the engine and drivetrain. It will be interesting to see the battle of the chassis. |
