| Author | Message | ||
     Joesbuell |
G'day Chaps  Just curious if there would be anyone here that had a race licence that could order one of these for a fello Bueller? Y2152.06AH DDFI-2 Programmable ECM PM me if you are interested in helping  Cheers Jodie | ||
| Slaughter |
'Fraid it can't happen. With the rules being changed at the Federal level, Buell cannot risk a race ECM making it onto the street - even in OZ. Bummer... and the aftermarket is slow to respond after the successful multi-million $$$ lawsuit against Powercommander. In CA, the violations are $10K PER INCIDENT and they offer rewards!!! (turn in your buddies for MONEY) - Installation: $10K, Tuning another $10K, non-approved intake: $10K, non-approved exhaust $10K. (aint it wonderful?) If a licensed racer was able to lie for you, he'd still have to get his sponsoring dealer to lie for you too... don't hold your breath because it'd mean the dealer AND the racer would be cut-off at the knees. | ||
| Rhun |
on a related issue I have a license ECM, no I'm not selling it, I think Henry is trying to find the hardware and software and make sure it is all legit. In the mean time, has anyone been able to get EMCSPY working with it? PS I apparently have the windows version. | ||
| Slaughter |
I don't think ANYBODY has ever gotten ECMSpy to operate with the true programmable race ecm. Different manufacturer, different coding... and just no real demand since the legit programmable module wasn't really sold without software. | ||
| 46champ |
I've always wondered what constitutes a race license. If a rider was to join NHRA, AHDRA, AMA, IHRA, the AHRA or what ever they call it in Oz submitted and received a race number and ran a couple of bracket races is that enough for an ECM? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Probably whatever Buell recognizes as an official sanctioning body I would guess | ||
| Slaughter |
As long as it was a recognized organization and as long as the motorcycle was NOT available for use on the street... it might work. Your dealer still has to place the order so you'd have to talk to the dealer... and that might be easier to do there in OZ than it would be to try to get a racer AND a dealer here in the USA do it for you. (Message edited by slaughter on August 04, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>I've always wondered what constitutes a race license. No need to wonder . . . it's no secret. Call or write Buell Racing and ask. They have a recognized list. You're on it. Or You're not on it. Simple. | ||
| Slaughter |
What Court said. Don't try to make an end run around the system. You're asking BOTH a racer AND a dealer to fake it for you. The list of racing organizations is published on the Buell.com website. If not, write a letter to Buell Racing to ask if they will recognize your organization (I know one racer who did exactly that) If you're trying to get race only module for use on the street - it won't happen. There's some history there, individuals as well as Conrath. | ||
| Joesbuell |
Thanks Chaps I guess I wouldn't want to live in CA hey!  I spoke to the biggest HD dealer in Oz yesterday and the race parts numbers arn't recognized by there computer parts file search! Bugger!!! My only reason for wanting the kit is to tune the popping out of the can I made plus it would be nice to get her running sweet We have some pretty cluey blokes here trying to hack an 08 ECM, I'm just a little impatient! Another question? has anyone used the Daytona Twin Tec to tune there 08/09 Buell? http://www.daytona-twintec.com/Twin_Tuner.html Cheers Jodie | ||
| Joesbuell |
Sorry I didn't think it would be such a drama! | ||
| Slaughter |
Not so much the drama... but there have been so many people trying so many different ways to get a race module and the threads seem to start up again weekly. The aftermarket WILL step in (and already has - although the features may be limited and the user interfaces may not be quite the same) - but there ARE options - and certainly less expensive than the $800 US that the module, software and cable/key is going to cost you. If you go to Buell.com you can download the parts and accessories catalog - the part numbers are all there. http://www.buell.com/en_us/gear/catalog/ | ||
| Slaughter |
I'll also ask a buddy who has hooked up a Daytona system to an 1125R... you got me curious there. If Daytona is programmable on both ignition maps and fuel maps, it might be exactly what you're looking for - though you ought to shoot them a note and ask if it will allow reprogramming the DDFI3 system. I think he was using it for data acquisition, not programming. | ||
| Joesbuell |
Thanks Slaughter thats where I got the part numbers from in the first place | ||
| Jimidan |
Does this mean that if one puts an after-market free-flowing exhaust and air filter on an 1125R that it is going to screw with the fuel mixture. Is there no latitude built into this FI system to allow it to learn? I have two buddies that just bought this bike, one for street and one for the track. I can't wait to ride both of them. | ||
| Slaughter |
We saw HIgbee's bike and up at Glendale, saw Serge's bikes on the dyno with modified intake and exhausts - and using a tailpipe sniffer, they really showed pretty much perfect air/fuel. I really think there is a LOT MORE latitude in the new ECM to allow it to "learn" non-standard hardware. My "gut" tells me that if you are putting an intake and exhaust on it - you would do well to do a couple dyno pulls AFTER the ECM has "learned" the new configuration. If the Air/Fuel is OK - just ride! A few hours of dyno tuning is going to be pricey. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
tuning the 08 and 09 modules IS POSSIBLE if you already have ecmspy and the cable and excel 03 and newer on your pc. during those weeks I tuned a xb12(09 ecm) and a 1125 cr (sept.08 ecm) using xxxxxx softwares only a raccomandation "be sure" to purchase the right software version for your ecm...this system is not so easy to use ....well is easy but requires more time respect the normal use of ecmspy. just check "xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com". one note and a lot of excuses....last saturday i was working on a 1125cr 08 with racing air filter and aftermarket muffler , when i tested the bike the first time it was really out of set running too lean and popping evrywhere but i was equally impressed by his engine ( it was the first time i have ridden one) , his braking and his handling similar respect my old xb but more stable....well once tuned i was REALLY IMPRESSED , POSITIVE IMPRESSED by that bike great bike great engine and great evrythings ....when i saw the 1125 the first time a couple of years ago i was banned several times because of what i said . now i want to present all my excuses because i was WRONG . You know i love the idea of an harley engine in a sport frame but as i started to ride it in a circuit and as i began to have better lap-times i found all the limits of that combination. even pushing that motor to the limit of displacement and tuning you cannot compete with modern 600's and it is a little bit frustrating considering all the money you need to pump up the xb even if you do it yourself like i did . to be honest my big surprise was not only the engine but the ZTL2 as well...IT WORKS not like on xb's 04/05 like mine it works great , front forks also are better and gives you a good feeling (nothing comparable respect the old xb's forks). it looks to me like a real sportbike/circuitbike ready to go ....95% ready to go because engine tuning is mandatory, chain conversion , forks internals and rear shock are options ... to Jimidan you don't need a race module just little adjustaments and those softwares and don't waste your moneys with by-pass modules . hope this help if not give me a private note to Blake i see i cannot write "free" about this (tuning) i understand laws and all things around it and i understand that is NOT a BUELL fault if their bike runs bad sometimes because of the EPA , EURO , CHRIST AND ALL THE SAINTS...BUT... to those people that worked hard and sometimes for free to make our bikes running good , to make our improvements like free air-filters or exhausts an advantage and not a problem the only thing that we can say is THANK YOU, and you know this...once you told me " thank you to maintain things honest here..."is for you HONEST when some sponsor sells by pass modules like tfi or similar ( i'm referring to the early models of tfi's) for a bike with closed loop-open loop operating systems ??? hope you understand is not my intention to be rude or looking for a fight bye Alessio | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
wrong again NOT TO JIMIDAN BUT TO JOESBUELL Sorry too much heat | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
At the shop, we have had a few issues retro fitting the new PC-V to pre 09 metric bikes. So today I called Dyno Jet to discuss this and a few other issues. The shop has done some testing for them so I also had a follow-up discussion about a Power Commander for the 1125. We have had discussions on the subject before and I knew they they have worked on a prototype CARB compliant EX model for the 1125. It was some things they understood about Buells and their closed loop that helped solve their CARB issues. So they understood when I told them that on the Henry Duga Buell Racing 1125 ECM we keep the closed loop enabled. A PC would work just the same, and if all the other PC-V's bells & whistles are there it should work well for a street and or a track bike. But then: I have now tested the 08-09 beta version of Direct Link so as soon as they add the other AFV for the front cylinder, I am ready to tune 1125's and the 2010 XB's. The shop has tuned early 08 with ECM Spy and now late 08 and one 09 using two different versions of Direct Link. The guys at Techno Reasearch are interested is getting this software sorted out, and so am I. ... Terry - www.jtsperformance.com (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on August 08, 2009) | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
"...Henry duga race ecm....closed loop enabled" there is something I don't understand if I'm not wrong the race ecm from Buell is only for race bikes so why the need of a "closed loop" area ? and most of all WHEN a race bike on a circuit gets the "closed loop" operating. hope you understand what i mean thanks in advance | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
When we received ours and I was getting ready to start the basic down loads, I contacted the racing department for a few guidelines. I was amazed to find out that it's your choice to turn the 02 sensors off or keep them on. They suggested that I keep them on and closed loop enabled. It makes sense that if on a trailing or maintenance throttle, with mid to upper rpm and light load, you want it lean and mean. Then at the apex when you roll it on it goes to the acceleration table and open loop fuel table you mapped without needing to clear it's self before making power. Sometimes the fuel table from decell to power is hard to get right when mapping, so being able to use the assistance of close loop would help. Terry - www.jtsperformance.com | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
CLEAR. I suppose in those ecms there is not any "learn mode" affecting all the fuel tables like in stock ecms happens (this is what confused me). bye Alessio | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
The key to tuning the Buell ECM's is to modify the closed loop learn cells so it never needs to skew the AFV. Buell tells you 100 +- 10 is within limits, we keep it tighter, correcting any cells that skew it less than 95 or greater than 105. There are a few tricks we use to tune to 100% AFV but it can be done. Terry | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
yeah what TerrY said do the center loop to keep the afv 95 to 105. thats the same target I use and have for 3 years now. works great. even if you set the fuel spot on then scale the map to be perfect at 100afv. you can make your own table. that locks the afv where ever you want it. with this i have my map at no correction anywhere but if you look at my fuel cell values you would think i have gone mad. the values are way low everwhere. but i set my afv to 125 on purpose. on my dyno may. its set this way to show afv and afr . with this map set at 125 afv i get a 13.4 afr 98% of the time. but lower the afv to a 100 and it goes off the chart lean everywhere. bottom line is if the map is correctly mapped in all the cells the afv doesnt matter as much as you think. i have 4 years on the buell ecm on the dyno. so dont get all jacked up on the afv only. there is more than one area of adjustment. see what the actual road afr is. or a dyno set to simulate a road condition. not just free reving the dyno no load. that afr will be off. remember you can change the fuel map afr in other areas beside the direct map itself. as closed loop , wot area, the accell, the decel, the decel fuel %, where each of these zones are on the map can be moved, open loop,andect. all are abel to be done with excell data pages. once made to let you know where to apply these in eeprom code directly in the eeprom. dyno shops do it so the customer cant figure out what he did. I'm not the only one hiding what i did. like terry we both do the same thing. there is just more than one way to do it. the afv, back on that. even if you set your map to a high or low afv vale you dont want it moving more than 10+- points. thats a constant value number you should use. 5 up or 5 down from the mean value. I am sure more than the two of us will agree on this value. ecmspy and a buell stock ecm can be a powerful tool once you have the ecm directory files. mike |
