| Author | Message | ||
     Duggram |
If you were me what would you do? Today I was talking to Henry Duga about getting a race ECM. Last weekend I got my race license from ASMA, here in New Mexico. Henry said he didn't think it would be enough to buy the ECM. I have a chance to test a new exhaust system that has been developed for the 1125. The developer would like me to have a race ECM so that I can try their maps. I need that ECM for my race bike. Here's my beef. I bought my 1125R to ride on the track. Once it was broke in it was stripped of all street gear and has not been back on the street. In fact most of the street gear is now in storage. I just spent about $1200 on race fiberglass body parts. I only ride on DOT race tires. I'm setup with stands front and back so that I can use tire warmers. The jiffy stand (HD's term) comes off when I install the belly pan. My 1125 is no longer a street bike. I spend about $800 a weekend to ride. The bike is transported in my fifthwheel toyhauler. I may be a little guy here in New Mexico, but I am serious about my track bike. And, BTW I'm the only Buell racer in southern New Mexico (for sure I'm the only 1125 racer in the entire state). Why should I ride a bike that the manufacturer won't support me on? Two weeks ago I road a race Kawasaki liter bike at my home track, Arroyo Seco (BTW Chris Peris, AMA #8, set a new track record last weekend). I was impressed with the power and handling. So now I'm thinking that if BMC won't allow me to buy race parts, then why should I race a Buell? Why not get a good liter bike? So now I'm thinking of finishing this year (I have 4 more track days till the middle of December) on the 1125 and trading it in on a new '09 R1. There's parts for these bikes everywhere, and there will be more over time (besides I like the idea behind the new R1 motor). I realize that most of you have the opportunity to get a race license from a larger organization (i.e. AMA, WERA, CCS, etc.). So you're going to be supportive of BMC. But if you were me what would you do? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I'd pester them. Give them the reasons you posted here, minus the Kawi thing. Some people do not respond well to threats (not that you're threatening them) Then go from there. I don't see you getting more if any support from Yamaha either. Buell trumps them all in the department of grass roots racing. Put a little pressure on them. They may come around. I race CCS and see Henry a few time a year. He's a nice guy, but he also has to follow the rules set forth by Buell. | ||
| Slaughter |
I'd get back in touch with Duga... seriously. The race parts sales thing MIGHT be tied to "recognized" sanctioning agencies/clubs that are listed and which they offer contingencies. I know they're trying to keep the hardware OFF of the street that can be in violation of EPA and DOT rules - look at Powercommander having lost nearly a $3million lawsuit here in CA... remember, it's a $10K PER violation. I think they're trying to avoid a group of a half dozen street racers deciding that they're going to be a "race club" and using that to buy the race goodies... and then Buell/HD gets sued by the GOVERNMENT. Seriously, I think you are standing on solid ground. I'd send a well-worded letter to BOTH Duga and Erik Buell with results from your last race (belive me, you don't have to be FAST or I could never get race stuff!!!) - and also show the calendar from the past season - showing a REGULAR race series. Buell Racing allows Willow Springs Motorcycle Club to use membership as justification - and WSMC is a one-track racing club... just a suggestion. I think they SHOULD let you have "race only" stuff but you might have to "educate" them on the legitimacy of the Sandia group AND the fact that you're actually RACING - not faking it to get parts onto your streetbike or onto somebody elses. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
if it is a license problem MAYBE you can ask to some Badwebber Racer to make the deal for you | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
NOT possible | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
watching tv i missed your posting Slaughter ...sorry | ||
| Duggram |
Steve and Rocket, Thanks for the comments. Actually I don't have anything to do with Sandia here in Albuquerque. Their track is too dangerous and the surface is too rough for me. I travel 280 miles to Arroyo Seco Raceway in Akela Flats, just 17 miles east of Deming on Hwy 10. It's worth it because it is described as the safest track in America. When Doug Chandler wanted to teach his son to road race he would travel from Salinas, CA to Arryo Seco because it is such a safe track. Back on topic. I got an email from Roger Heemsbergen the track owner at Arroyo. He wanted Henry's phone number. He wants to tell him that ASMA is registered with the AMA and our riders compete in AMA events without hassle. I understand the protection thing and will work with as much as possible. Woops! I gotta go run errands right now with my sponsor. More later.  | ||
| Schmitty |
I race the CCS Midwest Cup and I see Henry at the track from time to time. He is a reasonable man. If you can prove to him the legitimacy of you organization, I'm sure it won't be a problem. You have to see things from BMC's point of view. If they just start selling the track only ECM to anybody they're gonna have the government and the EPA so far up their a** you won't know where one ends and the other begins. Look what happened to Powercommander in California. They have to be somewhat skeptical when someone says "I need this for the track," and they're only running track days. I know you have a legit race only bike, but most of those bikes are street bikes with taped up lights. How many of these guys are gonna take that ECM out on Monday before they ride the bike to work? Just be patient and reasonable! Buell Racing is the ONLY major manufacturer to give this kind of support to club level racers. Try calling the Racing Director at HRC in Japan! Let me know how that goes. Don't worry I'll sit here and wait......Nothing, that's what I thought! Buell is only trying to cover their ass. Give it time, you'll get the help you need. Schmitty | ||
| Goldrush |
I understand your frustration, but Henry is one of the coolest guys I have met. I did not get how much track time you have on the 1125r. If you just got the bike and have very limited time on it, maybe you should focus on other things like suspension and your ability. I know every time someone gets a bike they want to make it go as fast as possible when in all reality you can't ride the bike to its limits as it stands. Please don't be offended by my statements I am guilty of this also. | ||
| Sd26 |
I'll preface this as that I'm not a very experienced Buell racer. As a very regular racer of other Japanese motorcycles over a long career of club racing and AMA Pro racing, getting special manufacturer parts was close to impossible. Generally, they were never acknowledged. Harley-Davidson's racing program has generally used the dealer as its arm for R&D. That's manufacturer direct to the dealer. Yamaha, as an example, is a manufacturer. To get parts from Yamaha USA, which is really a distributor, it takes almost an act of God. Yamaha USA might order those special parts, and they may severely limit the opportunity to get those because of availability, etc. They also do it in the interest of the competitiviness of their own team in the previous AMA series also. Some Yamaha race parts have to even be sourced through overseas dealers as Yamaha USA won't bring them in. Henry's a class act, and race parts are still supposed to flow through a dealer under Buell/H-D race operations. If I were going to make a recommendation, I would go back to your original relationship with your Buell dealer or with one that you should be establishing a relationship with. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Good point Dave. I need to get over to Uke's myself to get the Buell dealer/Henry thing set up. I was using another dealer, but for what it is, the distance doesn't justify it. How's the nose doing? | ||
| Skinstains |
I race along with my son in CCS amateur classes on our Bolts. I have met Henry a couple of times and he is a nice guy from what I can tell. He also seems to love his work and take it seriously. The first time I met him was at a race where my son blew out the cases on his 9R. Henry was ready and willing to get me new cases as soon as physically possible. If your club is actually recognized by the AMA I can't see Buell or Henry not opening up the parts store for you. I would not suggest trying to go above or around Henry as going above is impossible and around may only irritate him (I doubt it though). I'm not sure how long you have been a Bueller, but you will soon see that Buell really is different in every sense. Buell is the only manufacturer that will sell any and all of their race parts to non-factory riders. Other manufactures wouldn't even think about doing that, just ask MJ. You will soon see that Buells grass-roots racing support is out of this world. Give it a chance and I'm sure you will like being a Bueller. Welcome to the family (insanity). | ||
| Sd26 |
Uke's! Nice folks there! Nose is good. Well, it sucks right now...no, actually, I can't do that...LOL! It's kind of like having the worst cold ever. Can't smell, can't breath through it. Splints come out on Wednesday, so I'm looking forward to that day. | ||
| Court |
Henry Duga, rivaled only by Kim Tordik, is about the classiest and nicest person I've met in the world of Buell since 1987. Henry is not only one of the savviest in the USA with regard to racing, he's a very intelligent, dedicated guy with a job to do. Henry, like anyone regulated by the feds, has a job to do and strict guidelines within which he must act. While some of us, as I have on 3 occasions the last week, can break internal Harley-Davidson rules with little more than admonishment, there are stiff fines and consequences if Henry steps afoul of legal guidelines. Henry Duga has never said an unkind word about anyone in the nearly quarter decade I've known him and it's a major disappointment to see his name in a thread with this tone. The dealer, under the Harley-Davidson dealer contract, is your first point of contact. ALL, that's ALL, sales are required to go through the dealer. There has been a special procedure implemented to allow adherence to the rules (actually legal covenants of the contract) while allowing Henry to act as a de facto "agent at the race track" to provide top notch support to Buell racers. If you need a contrast, call Hondo of America tomorrow in Torrance, CA and tell them you want to buy a set of HRC pistons. Buell, Buell owners and Buell racers are blessed to have Henry Duga. Court | ||
| Buell2001b |
court I can see why you might be upset, but if you are a true Bueller then you shold take that kawi and make the best of your career. Personally I dont think much of japanese technology nor the riders that ride them. there are bikes without soul, they are just machines and sounds like you fit them perfectly. to be a bueller is to be like a ducati rider. you love the bike and you wont ride anyhting else becuase that bike is part of you. the provlem with a lot of american riders is that they are not passionate. maybe this is why it took a Frech to win the first major motorcycle race for Buell. To bad there is no Buell in south America cause south Americans have passion for what they do and they never sell out. with so many twisties down there I dont know why companies are not building race tracks down there and for pennys on the dollar could develop greta factory teams. | ||
| Court |
I'm not the least bit upset. I simply set the record straight on some inaccurate statements. There are MANY Buells in South America, | ||
| Duggram |
Why does everyone think I have something against Henry Duga? I don't. If you read all of my posts http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=290431&post=1308938#POST1308938 you would understand that I see the problem is the system, not Henry. I also understand about BMC's liablitiy (did you graduate from law school too Court? BTW I'm not an attorney, I work in surgery). I sense a little too much crowd mentality going on in these forums. I also understand it's difficult to not pile on when you see the crowd's reaction. But I would a appreciate a little restraint. Thanks, Doug | ||
| Sd26 |
I don't see where anyone is getting a crowd mentality. But have you actually talked to your dealer? This IS the route that the parts would be made available to you as a racer. If this is a developer issue, perhaps the exhaust developer should contact Buell and a dealer directly too. Those are potentially real options for you to accomplish what you're looking to do. | ||
| Duggram |
My dealer is ready and helpful. Not sure why my lack of race ECM is the developer's problem. Seems like mine. If you checkout the 1125 forum you'll see what I mean by crowd mentality. I made the big mistake of double posting. Won't do that again. | ||
| Court |
>>>did you graduate from law school too Court? No (Message edited by court on November 16, 2008) | ||
| Court |
- (Message edited by court on November 16, 2008) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Duggram, If I understand it correctly, race parts must be ordered through your supporting dealer. The only time you get them directly from Buell or Henry would be at the track where they show up with the race parts van. In order to get the parts from the race van you must have completed the proper paperwork before hand. Check out the racing section on Buell.com for better info. As for the reply's to your post, it's not a crowd thing. Most of the people replying to your post are Buell racers. They know the system and how it works. To answer you original question; Be patient, find a dealer who will support you and go from there. I am sure you will get the results you are looking for. (Message edited by Paint shaker on November 16, 2008) | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I do see Doug's point. Could he have picked a better thread title? Who are you to judge that? This forum is getting worse every year. My God. Don't have an opinion unless it falls in line with everyone else. Court, you seem a little condescending....and very self promoting. I doubt your question about his profession is little more than an insult. And for the record, if you don't think Buell plays favorites with the racers, expert or amateur, you're dead wrong. I've seen it first hand. But that's their choice. I think Doug has a reason for his post, and who the hell are any of you to put him down for it? No wonder why I visit this site less and less every day. Good luck Doug, in whatever path you choose to take. | ||
| Court |
I doubt your question about his profession is little more than an insult. Like his asking me if I were an Attorney for citing product liability as one of the reasons for the rules? You are right, Buell does, just like Honda, Ford, Porsche and Head tennis, play favorites. Folks who jump on the Internet, call them names and opine that they'll "just go buy an R1" are unlikely to get the best servicer. It's a fact of life dude. He did not ask how to get help but rather came here whining, complaining and threatening. It was a stupid move. That's my opinion, Yours may differ. That's just fine with me. . . really, it is. | ||
| Duggram |
Court I missed your posts. My point was to impress upon you that I do understand the situation. I apologize for upsetting you if I did. BTW I was only in a law practice for one year 20 years ago. I hated it and went back to OR nursing (i'm also an RN) and also spent 10 years in IT/software engineering. I'm really not a bad guy. Rocket, thanks for the comments. You can't imagine how much I wish I hadn't started these threads. Then again I can just walk away from the forum but that would be a mistake. There's too much good info and support here. As for the path I'll take, that's pretty easy. I like the 1125. The power and handling are good for me. I've already spent a lot of money on parts that I don't want to send back. I've also seen a post from someone that is developing an ECM controller which would be good if I can't get the race ECM. I am setup with my dealer for buying parts through Henry, in fact my first set of race brake pads will be in this week. Henry confirmed that Friday. One last point, I have two street bikes (sportster & Yamaha FJR). I don't need the Buell on the street. We need someway to prove our bikes are not street bikes. I've thought of surrendering my license plates and registration, but you need that to prove ownership. I don't have the answers but I will do whatever it takes to get along. Hopefully by Monday night this will all be over with and we can go back to being a happy family again. | ||
| Duggram |
Court you posted will I was composing. Thank you for responding which is a good example of the crowd mentality I was referring too. I have not called anyone a name. I posted my position and asked what would you do. Maybe this is an inherent problem with long threads. Facts get distorted and feelings get hurt. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Exactly Court. But his was a question about your understanding of the law. What does Surgery have to do with the law? You proved your understanding. I think he was questioning the reason as to why Buell didn't accept his race license. Looks like they may have now. That being said, I have no issues with anyone here, I hope. Later. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Duggram... Welcome and please stay. If this thread is the stupidist thing you have ever done, you are a rocket scientist relative to people like Court and I.  Flr starters, you should see what I did to some poor, innocent, KLR-250... | ||
| Court |
>>>you should see what I did to some poor, innocent, KLR-250... I assure you that Henry Duga would NEVER condone that. | ||
| Trojan |
We have always found Henry Duga to a be very pleasanty and extremely helpful guy, especially as over here there is no Buell support for the racer like there is in the US. However, the difficulty is often getting a dealer to even know about race parts and their part numbers, and the route they need to take in ordering said parts from Henry. Buell UK have even told me that some parts are non existent even though I know they are readily available in the US. The big difference between Buell race parts and other brands such as Yamaha and Kawasaki, is that if parts are not available through the official channels (over here you can order Yamaha race kit parts through any franchised dealer) there are usually a whole host of aftermarket race parts available from th elikes of Moriwaki, Harris, Motec etc. |
