| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
OK . . .. after taking a pass on this years Team Elves event (I figured that, while spending my 20th Anniversary on the Salt might be MY idea of a good time, my long-suffering wife might not altogether share that feeling), I'm gearing up for next year (never too early to start). My question is, what's the approximate Horsepower I'll need to break into the 130s with my Y2K Ma Deuece, and, at what altitude? Forinstance, if 100 rwh at 400 feet above sea level will do the trick, cool . ... if I need 105 at Bonnie's altitude, what does that translate into for a flatlander? thanks for your help edited by bomber on November 04, 2003 | ||
| Aaron |
Around 80rwhp SAE sorrected. So long as you talk in corrected, you don't need to worry about the altitude difference, it's taken into account. Bluzm2's M2 was right in that range this year, and several people used my M2 to make the 130 club a few years ago when it was making 82rwhp. FMJ made it with his S2 with somewhat less than that, if memory serves. But it's faired. Stock 27/61 gearing should work. If you want that M2 to make the 150 club instead, let me know  | ||
| Bomber |
Aaron . . .thanks for the input . . .I was hoping you'd weigh in on this subject . . . .. . as for the 150 club, well, depending on my daughter's upcoming tests, you may just be hearing from me . . . .I havn't told her that great test scores = bull goose scholarship = Dad doing a buck fifty, cuz she doesn't need the pressure, but, believe me, when the need arises, you'll be the thrid to know (wife, daughter, Aaron) thank you sir | ||
| Firemanjim |
Bomber,regarding anniversaries,mine is the 19th of sept.Smack in the middle of the WOS every year.So, I just celebrate the week before.Worked for the last 5 years in a row.The best one was when we celebrated about 10 days before Bonneville cuz thats when my schedule allowed--and then my wife forgot on the real date.I had flowers sent to her and she was caught totally unprepared.She had to scramble like mad to find something in Wendover of all places for my gift.She lucked out,though,as Landspeed Louise was in our hotel signing copies of her book on Boneville.So that and a bucket of beer waiting in my room--- it was ammunition for years,as I have never forgotten an anniversary. Of course she has NO interest in celebrating in Wendover,though I can't figger why????? | ||
| Bomber |
Jim our wives went to the same school, I'm thinkin {grin} . . . glad to see you're ok with all the to-do out there, sir . . . . keep safe, please | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Bomber, My 00 M2 has over 21,000 miles on it. With expert tuning by Aaron and Brian I was just able to squeek into the 130 Club. Now if I was to dump about 20 or 30 lbs, it would have been much easier. I'm sitting at 230+ with all my gear on, ready to ride. Very small changes with riding position will dictate weather you make it or not. E.G. Not tucking your left elbow all the way will drop you about 3/4 mph. Not having your head all the way down on the tank will cost you over 2 mph. When you have your head on the tank, don't pinch the vent tube with your helmet. The bike doesn't like that. Don't ask how I know that for a fact..... Brad | ||
| Bomber |
Brad thanks for the tips . .. . . I ALWAYS grab the left fork leg on the straights at trackdays . .. anyone how never watched milers at springfield thinks it's wierd (but you and I know different, don't we) . . .. . good tip in the vent hose, though . . . .I'd not considered that . . .. if one may ask, without revealing income-generating secrets, what tuning to Aaron and Brian do to your bike? anything involving the sacrifice of small mammels? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Nope! Nothing radical, just a basic tuning. We rejetted for altitude, went from a 195 to a 180 if memory serves. Left the pilot alone. I'm not sure but I think Aaron may have turned in the low speed screw a bit. Aaron had it a bit lean for his area as Bonneville is about 1000' lower. It ran in the 12-12.5/1 A/F ratio on the dyno. It pulled REAL hard at Bonneville with 110 race gas on board. After a warmup and a initial pull, the timing was advanced about 5 degrees to compensate for the top end retard of the stock module. If I remember correctly, they pick up another 6 or 7 hp for me. It was real neat watching a couple of experts ply their craft. They make it look so easy. Dyno's are way cool.....  | ||
| Oconnor |
Exactly how hard is it to get to 130, I am assuming you are talking mph? now 150, I can assume talks a few dollars of tinkering, 175 a little more and 200 mortgage the house. but am I missing something. I am asking this truly to learn. ( I only mention this after reading questions from other people on this board who want to start pissing contests) Thanks | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Charles, When my M2 was on the dyno, at red line and into the rev limiter it was pulling about 135 MPH. Keep in mind that's with no wind resistance and perfect traction against the dyno roller (the drum is knurled). When I ran my 131 pass the bike was at red line. It wasn't going to go any faster. The difference was wheel slip on the salt. As one of my tutors said "think small", very small changes in riding position make a measureable difference in speed. When lifing my head to look where I was heading I could hear the rev's drop. I couldn't look where I was going, just look beside the bike betweek the fork and tank and watch the previous runs tire tracks. If I was parallel I was ok and kept my head down. If I was drifting, I lifted my head, corrected then got my head back down. I watched for the finish markers out of the corner of my eye. They were big and very orange and easy do see. As far as 150 on an M2, Aaron can speak to that much better than I but if I remember correctly the basics are.... A Nallin 1250 kit with reworked Bolt heads. A 42mm Mikuni, Force pipe, not sure about the ignition or which cams he was running. Also a smaller front pulley. Aaron, what other things did you have on that beast? It sure sounded mean. I even pulled my brake pucks back from the rotors to reduce drag. I sure was worth it though..... | ||
| Oconnor |
What kind of power are you putting out at the flywheel. What about at the wheel. I have a xb9r and can't imagine 135 is that far off. I would love to come and check you guys out making these runs | ||
| Firemanjim |
O'Connor,I went 133 with my near stock S-2 putting out 77hp.Next year came back with more body work and 121 hp--went 165.This year same bodywork,170 hp and went 177,but probably was on track to hit 185. 200 mph is gonna take at least 200hp and some slippery bodywork--and some decent conditions with an experienced rider. Start small and work up--great fun. | ||
| Paulinoz |
As far as 150 on an M2. Aarons M2 was putting out 121hp at the rear from memory. Peter managed to get it above 150MPH twice. the best I got on it was 146.7, I would like to say it was the salt going off that made me come up short but I think it is down to skill and how well I could'nt roll a large lump into a small ball behind the instruments. As to small amounts of body movment making a difference, on the RR I just held the throtle at a constant position and moved my head up and down 20mm (3/4 inch) to keep it between 150 and 160 mph Worked a lot easier than trying to control the light switch that passes for a throtle on the RR. I still get a thrill when I think about that bike what a way to end 5 days at the Salt. The XB12R arrived at my dealers today swap the M2 for it tommorow. Then start to prep it for The salt down here in march. Just found out that to get to the salt lake is via a 132 km dirt road with cattle grids etc. That aint going to be easy in a car that has 3 inchs of ground clearance towing a trailer. I need somthing like Aarons or FMJ's truck. | ||
| Oconnor |
well, I am planning, hopefully to be doing a race school in march, but, if it doesn't conflict with some runs you guys do out there on the lake, Keep me posted I love to buy a couple rounds at night and watch you do that vodoo during the day!!! | ||
| Phillyblast |
>>regarding anniversaries,mine is the 19th of sept hehe I'm getting married next Oct. 2 - sitting at dinner one night in Wendover Aaron looks at me and asks "So are you building a bike for next year?" Jenn looked at me and said "go ahead, I already know what the answer is." That's one of the reasons I'm marrying her So let's see 3 days driving either way from Philly, plus racing time hmmm. Still think I can pull it off, just need to figure out what to build. Oh, and like Paul I need a truck. Selling the Mustang this week, I'll see what the job situation is by the end of the month and start looking for a decent truck that will make the trip. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Oconner, My M2 was putting down 79-80 Hp at the rear wheel. Not bad for a bone stock motor (intake and exhaust only) with over 21,000 miles. | ||
| Bomber |
All -- thanks for the tips . . . . it sounds like my 25K mile Ma Deuece will be up to the challenge (with some dyno time, natch) . . .. I've got early M2 body work on it, which should offer less drag . . .. now it's time to tune ME . . . . Brad, we're about the same size/weight, so I figure if I drop 10/20 pounds over the winter (yeah, right), I should be able to pull it off . . .. think I'll bring my Euro read pulley, just in case, though . . . . this ain't about records, for me, anyways . .. . just want to be another middle-aged gray-haired guy to break into the 130s . . .. . . Brad -- I'm located Chicagoish . .. if ya make the trip again next year, perhaps we can convey or some such . .. . . . | ||
| Court |
G'day, more info please Mate. Sounds like a road trip. | ||
| Bomber |
Court . . . .you are, of course, welcome to come along and play! you can sit on the Ma Deuece and make vroom vroom noises as it rolls down the highway on the trailer! | ||
| Rattler |
<<Oconner, My M2 was putting down 79-80 Hp at the rear wheel. Not bad for a bone stock motor (intake and exhaust only) with over 21,000 miles. >> MY wife's lil nekkid Hugger under 1000 cc's went 139 & some change on the qualifying run with right around 78 HP back in 01. She went 146 MPH on the return run with a little wind help! The salt slippage was minimal then also....it has a lot do with speeds obtained with what HP. So, you can also see what difference the front profile of a bike can make in HP required. Sportsters are thin & Huggers sit real low. Of course I made it lower slipping the forks some in the trees. Some of the Buell's if they are squatted down some & go on a diet as in thin looking from the front would get better speeds...not that they are not doing quite well, as Team Elves bikes have all ran good speeds...just something to think about for you folks looking to catch the Salt bug. In my experience in LSR type racing..jockey sized fella's do better also...this is debatable with some people as far as weight...some say a heavier person may help traction...I haven't ever seen that myself. Dale A. | ||
| Fssnoc2501 |
Just some thoughts from a recently deflowered salt virgin, After returning from the salt flats in September and taking some time to reflect on the events there, I found several things that really stood out that I would like to share. The first is the most obvious which is the pride and exhileration of setting two records on my first attempt. Now this sound easy especially if you know that both of these records were open and thus ripe for the picking. The problem was I went to the salt with two goals to set these records and to set them with a high enough speed that someone would have to work to break them. Now do I have the fantasy that I set them high enough that no one can or will try to break them. I certainly hope not as that would deminish the spirit of the salt flats, in fact I look forward to the competition. I do feel that I did achieve both goals though, and I owe that success to many poeple and to myself for accepting the advice, help and assistance of these folks. I agree with Dale about most of the things he stated in his post, except for the narrow (thin) front aspect to the bike. As you all can see from the pics that have been posted of my bike the fairing I chose for my bike was somewhat blunt in front. I feel that this fairing was responsible for several mph during my runs. I first started to research what fairing to use after a suggestion from Aaron to look at the XRTT fairing. This fairing has alot of history and wind tunnel testing that was done to create its ability to cut through the wind, in fact it has much shared history with the RR Buell fairing. Once tucked in behind this fairing I felt absolutely no wind, no buffet, no nothing. What I did find though was just minut movements of no more than 1/4" would cause major changes on the tachometer. This was with any part of the body an elbow, knee, or helmet. In fact, on one of my runs that turned out to be one the the best, I learned a valuable lessen as to what not to do at the end of the run especially if you have a sidecar attached. This was the run in which I broke 100 mph in the quarter, I knew it was a good run and in my excitement I chopped the throttle and sat up at the same time. For those that don't know side car rigs have a tendency to turn away from the side car when upset. So when I sat up the bike went suddenly from 100mph to around 40mph and suddenly turned sharply left. Although this was a thrilling manuever it not one that I would like to repeat again. The only saving grace was the width of the course at the salt flats. I also found that it is important to take note of the things that go right and repeat them. The slowest run that I made was due to a simple mistake of my own creation. On all of the other runs I had been wearing my ear plugs, and on this particular run I forgot them back in my pit area. This completely changed the sound of the bike. Coming off the line I thought by the sound that I had the bike wound up enough when in fact I left the line with the rpm's in the reversion range loading up the bike. It took nearly 3/4 of a mile to clean out the bike and to get up to speed. With this I lost much of the precious momentum needed for top speed. I am in no way an authority, but the moral to this tale is to ask alot of question, actually listen to the answers, and to take note of the successes so that you can repeat those things that went well. I found this to be a major part of my success. The other part is to prepare, as Court likes to tell folks get out the milk crate and become one with your Buell. I lost track after 100 or so hours how much time I spent in preparation. None of the time was wasted as it turned out, and in fact I found several things that we never considered that are currently in the works. In talking to several folks I found that you are never completely prepared as each time out there is another learning experience. The most important thing I learned was it is a hoot, the fun and experience is unique and contagious. An experience that I strongly recommend, Ray | ||
| Rattler |
Hey sorry Ray...I was mostly referring to non faired type bikes, S-1's etc..most Buell's use some type of fairing....yes, streamlining like this does help...I still think if guys squatted down those Buell's they would get even better speeds...just one mans opinion though. Remember what Aaron did with the front end of the S-1 My Salt view is from a non faired aspect..never ran one out their on a Sporty. Dale A. | ||
| Bomber |
wow . . .. .all this great information, coaching, and cheerleading . . . . what a great thing this board is . . .thanks, all, for the tips | ||
| Fssnoc2501 |
Dale, Meant no disrespect to you at all, in fact I appreciated the advice, help and kindness of all of the Sporster List team. You folks rock, very personable. I enjoy each and every time we get together. My experience with the fairing was looking for every advantage I could get. You know with this highly aerodynamic body of mine, I really needed all the help that I could find. Damn, I had alot of fun out there, look forward to going out agian in the future. Ray | ||
| Firemanjim |
Ray,can you give me specifics on your fairing??Maybe some quick measurements,width across top and bottom,length,etc.Thanks. | ||
| Rattler |
Ray posts: <<You know with this highly aerodynamic body of mine, I really needed all the help that I could find. Damn, I had alot of fun out there, >> That one had me on the floor Ray! hehe, btw, hows things with your Dad..he really was proud of you at Bonny! Dale |
