| Author | Message | ||
     Truckstop |
Hey, I've lurked on this board for a while, but today it struck me to finally post. This past season was my first year racing with CCS Midwest region in ULWSB (which ran with LWSS, I also entered GT Lights and the other LW classes a few times), and also worked as a novice track coach with a track day org so some of you may recognize me. I'm currently running an old Honda Hawk, and will continue with it in '08, but the eventual plan has always been to move on to either a 125 GP bike or a Buell, most likely an XB12 since I have no interest in Middleweight to Unlimited classes. I'm a slow and cautious rider - so the Lightweight classes are where I'll stay, besides I've always ridden sport twins or v4s, and have never spent much time on inline bikes. I've tried my husband's gixxer and hated it - just felt and sounded all wrong. Having never been on an XB12R, I'm not 100% sure. Anyone know what the difference would be like besides physical size? I've only ever ridden my friend's Blast, and demoed an 1125R at Road America. I know the best thing would be to actually get on one and try it, but those opportunities aren't all that common. The other issue that I've found, is that used race/track bikes seem to be hard to come by as far as Buells go, and converting someone's babied high dollar street bike is financially impossible for me. With both my husband and I racing, we're definitely on a budget. Is my best bet to look for something crash damaged? Is there a secret underground network of used Buell track bikes that I don't know about? Or should I resolve myself to spending a lot of cash to build one? I'd likely end up wanting a chain and GP Shift (is that even possible?) and so with the added expense of that, converting a used street bike seems less likely. Thoughts, insight? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! | ||
| Slaughter |
I was an IDIOT who decided to take the streetbike out on track days and then started racing it. Couldn't have taken a more expensive route! It's a toss-up between buying a used racebike and buying a used-up streetbike or an insurance salvage bike and then overhauling the engine, re-doing suspension Any way you do it, it's a fair amount of work. If you check the BBS's for the various race organizations, sometimes you come up with used racebikes and actually IF you find one with a good suspension and components, it is worth it but it's pretty rare to find one that is within a couple hundred miles driving range. Check WERA, MotoST, CCS, ASRA, AFM bulletin boards Classified sections. You might have some luck. Insurance salvage is a great way to go since it doesn't take much damage on a couple year old bike to have it "totalled" - if a salvage bid is high enough and your timing is right. Switching to GP shift takes 5 minutes and an allen wrench - just reverse the arm on the primary. The chain conversion is sweet now that the RR parts are available. Engine mods need to be looked at on the basis of which classes you plan to race. Having raced a Suzuki AND the XB - I've had more fun on the XB and the crowd racing these bikes is really a much better bunch of folks if I do say so myself! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Hey Jen. I race with you. I run a XB9. Not much needed as far as engine mods. Big thing is to take a 9 and install a 12 crank, or a 12 and install 9 pistons. Buells crash very well. I purchased my bike and converted it over to a track bike which consisted of removing the street gear and purchasing a number plate, $50 and a belly pan, which was around $100 if I remember. Buells are, believe it or not, sometimes hard to come by. 9's are cheaper to purchase usually. I believe with the 1125R coming out, you may be able to find a good deal on a XB. Mine is undergoing some major mods over the winter such as suspension upgrades and minor motor work. Ya just have to keep your eyes open for a deal. One major bonus to the Buell is the support. Both dealer and Factory. They pay great down to 5th in AM Thunderbike and I believe they are adding even more payout. (which reminds me they still owe me $100 from Sept.!) You can get great discounts on race items through the dealers. Henry Duga is the Factory Race Rep. and he's usually at the bigger race events with a truck load of spares and some great advice. Lastly there is "Buell Alley" right after the entrance across the track at Blackhawk. Swing by next year. Paul James, Mike (coolice here on the badweb), me, Mark, Joel, Ben, Tom....crap, there's a ton of us. All willing to talk and help out the best we can. | ||
| Schmitty |
Hey Jen, I might have what you're looking for. I have a used XB9R that I raced for half a season last year in CCS. Rocket's right there isn't much that you need to do to race it. I have a lot of the race parts already installed. The GP shift is already taken care of. It's very easy on a Buell, you just flip the shift linkage over. Here's a link to my ad in the classifieds. If you're interested let me know and we can negotiate. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/ 315750.html?1196275772 Let me know and I can get you some pictures if you like. Schmitty P.S. The best thing about racing a Buell is the PEOPLE!!! I wouldn't even dream of racing another brand! The hospitality and the help that I was given last year as a total stranger was amazing!! My wife was absolutely floored! Thanks again to everybody involved. You all know who you are!! | ||
| Truckstop |
Hey guys - thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I'm not in the market for a bike *right now*. We're trying to buy a house, etc. So next season I'm still on the Hawk, and still figuring out what I'm doing out there. So, sorry about that. When I originally bought that bike, I'd been looking around and toying with the idea of a Buell right off the bat. Looked through all the forums, tried finding a used streetbike, etc. but didn't come up with much. Of course now that I'm just culling information, and doing some cold weather day-dreaming, something is available. :P I should have paid better attention to the shift lever, and that there actually is a linkage. (All I had to do was walk over to one of the bikes parked in the office) For some reason I think the 1125R doesn't? I'm not sure why I was thinking they didn't. Does modding the 9 make it competitive with the 12's? Hadn't given it much thought since I was under the impression that one was better off with a 12? Not that I'm competitive in the first place, but I want to make sure it can be grown into if I somehow, suddenly get over my fear of crashing. (Message edited by truckstop on November 28, 2007) | ||
| Slaughter |
"Competitive" depends on what the rules are in the organization you are racing. GENERALLY, 1200cc is a limit for many racing clubs for some variation of middleweight Twins classes. The XB9 motor can be punched out to make a 1169cc motor with the 3.125 inch stroke. That engine (in my own opinion) is a more reliable engine when raced than the longer stroke engine - assuming you've used lighter pistons in both cases and balanced the engines. High revs and hitting the rev limit just seems to hurt the longer stroke motors worse than the short strokers. I'm NO EXPERT!!! (despite what it says on my race license) - but while the XB-12 engine sells better for streetbikes, in my opinion, the big bore/short stroke motor makes a better race engine. Unfortunately, the only "stock" short stroke/big-bore is the XBRR. We have to make our own. | ||
| Eboos |
Just for a heads up, I just got off the phone with Buell Racing, and they will continue to support all year XB models with contingency. The contingency program will be announced by the end of the month (not sure if he was talking about this month since it is pretty much over as it is). | ||
| Gearhead |
Jen, I'd like to throw my two cents into this thread, too. Last year was my rookie year racing an XB12R in the Great Plains and Midwest regions and I will agree with all above that you cannot find a more supportive or enthusiast group to race with in this part of the country! As far as the bike, I bought a light wreck, got it licensed, then stripped it into a race bike. I looked hard for 4 months before I found one and paid a little more than I should have but I got what I wanted with no regrets. I agree that the 1125R may shake loose more XB's this coming year, I know my XB12R streetbike is getting traded in for one as soon as it arrives! My bike is stock with the belt except for upgraded suspension and the standard mods, ECM, filter and pipe. I really believe the bike in this configuation is fairly competitive right out of the box if you're a rider! My experience has been the bike is ready and willing as your confidence improves but I have a LONG way to go myself! I hope it works out for you to get on a Buell, you won't be disappointed!!!! | ||
| Slaughter |
As I understand the contingency - we will be seeing an announcement shortly about next year's contingency money. Remember, it doesn't start in January (so those of us who have 12 months of racing don't get too excited) - I think it will start again in March with Daytona. | ||
| Trojan |
As a complete wild card idea, have you thought about the proposed WERA 450 Moto series that is being run next year? Basically take a 2006 or newer 450 dirt bike, buy the spec class bodywork and controls and go race! Tuning is strictly limited so is a true riders class. www.450moto.com has most of the details at present, although if you can be bothered to trawl through the Wera forums there is more info on there too. If you are looking to stay in a lightweight class this seems to be a great way to race competitively on a budget. (Message edited by trojan on November 30, 2007) | ||
| Truckstop |
I've heard about that, and it's a cool idea. I think CCS proposed to allow 250cc four stroke singles in the 125GP races next year which is another thought. Since we live nearly exactly between Road America and Blackhawk Farms, and BHF has its own track Championship, racing with WERA just isn't as convenient. | ||
| Slaughter |
Not to take away from the Buell-themed racing questions but EVERY race organization has a lightweight twins class which is well-suited for bikes like the EX500 Kawi or even the GS500 (maybe) They're dirt cheap unless you start tweaking the motors too much. Some orgs are starting out with 250 classes based on the littlest Ninja - but I'm betting the 250-class motors don't last too long. (Message edited by slaughter on November 30, 2007) | ||
| Truckstop |
Unfortunately there's a proposed rule change with CCS that will basically ruin the class for bikes like the EX and GS 500's, Hawks, CB-1's etc that we currently have by allowing SV's and EX650s to run in it. The Hawk, including spare wheels and some other bits like a new brake set up and some newer bodywork and paint I think cost me around $3K - it was already set up as a race bike with a mildly built motor. I went through two sets of tires the whole season. It doesn't get much cheaper than that, but my bike's days of viability in CCS are pretty numbered depending on that rule change. | ||
| Slaughter |
Allowing the SV and Ninja 650 twins in the same classes as those others is just WRONG - but sheesh, I'm not writing up the rules. Tim Hurley out here ran 500 Singles on his nearly stock Blast and in a WHOLE year of 12 racing weekends spent less than what I spend in 2 days on tires. | ||
| Blake |
Good grief, like the SV's don't have enough classes to run already?! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Stupid part is they kicked the 9 out of that class saying it should be in a LW class were it will be more competition to the SV. Now they want to let the SV in the ULSB, but the answer to my email from the powers that be at CCS is "not the 9. It makes 90hp, and Dave Estok won the ASRA National Thunderbike title on a 9. It's too powerful" Estoks bike may have started life as a 9, but it ain't even close now! | ||
| Diablobrian |
calling Estok's bike a nine is just plain silly. It may be titled as a nine but that's about it. And I'm certain that his bike makes considerably more than 90hp in full race trim. | ||
| Babyhuey |
what engine mods are allowed in amatuer thunderbike? i'm going to be racing in that class but am unsure about the class rules in the ccs rule book.-andrew | ||
| Rocketsprink |
As far as engine. 2007 riles were.... Cylinder heads and engine cases must be from production model motorcycle. Original type induction system must be retained. Twin cylinder, air cooled=Unlimited displacement. Basically, you can build the crap out of the motor. But that would make it illegal in other classes. | ||
| Diablobrian |
remember the 4lbs : hp rule in thunderbike too, but that doesn't come into play until you spend a lot of time and money lightening and building the bike. | ||
| Babyhuey |
while my motor is getting torn down for a rebuild and i'm contemplating doing some upgrades.thinking about either a 9 flywheel with big big bore or just 9 pistons in the 1200.either way considering head work.does the hp to weight still apply to amateur classes or is it just the expert ones? | ||
| Truckstop |
All the class rules are the same for Amateur and Expert. | ||
| Babyhuey |
so i guess i need to decide on whether to run one class or build to suit one. anyone have ian idea of race weight on an xb12 with full fairings and a chain conversion? | ||
| Gearhead |
I cannot answer your question on race bike weight, I never got mine checked last season, but... Are you sure you want to spend all those dollars to only race one class? We're lucky in the lightweight class that there are seven different classes we can race in. 1210 cc max.- LW SuperSport, LW Superbike, LW Grand Prix and GT Lights Unlimited cc - Thunderbike, SuperTwins and LW Formula Forty. Unfortunately, Buell only pays in Thunderbike but there are several contengencies in the other classes though tire, brake pad and bike support companies. I haven't finished high enough to take advantage of them, yet, but I do like racing in multiple classes throughout the day. That's just my .02. | ||
| Gearhead |
Sorry, guys, I forgot to mention that these classes are in CCS MidWest region. I'm licensed and race mostly in the CCS Great Plains region which doesn't run Thunderbike. | ||
| Trojan |
anyone have ian idea of race weight on an xb12 with full fairings and a chain conversion? Our 2006 bike weighed 185kg (407 lb) with 1/2 tank of fuel, chain conversion and full fairings, although this was based on a Ulysses so had the longer swingarm and larger frame. An XB12R may be slightly lighter. We retained the stock battery, starter motor & alternator in order to stay within the Thunderbike power/weight rules, so if you race in other classes there is still a lot of flab to come off if you wanted to. The bike put out 103bhp at the rear wheel, so was right on the Thunderbike limit with a full tank. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Ralph. Buell also pays in AM Supertwins now. | ||
| Gearhead |
Thanks, Rocco, I missed that. That's another reason to build a bike to race in multiple classes. Andrew, I certainly understand that if you're going after a particular class title that it takes a weapon built to the rules. I think it's great that you're considering joining the racing ranks!! | ||
| Blake |
When I am ready to get back into racing, I'm going to look real hard at running a Blast. Steve, what did you find about the rules for running a Blast engined X-Frame machine? I recall you working on such a beast. Does the unlimited engine mod rule for air-cooled twins in CCS permit turbo-charging, or maybe supercharging for air-cooled pushrod singles? The X-Blast might be even more fun with a turbo or supercharger. | ||
| Babyhuey |
if i understand the rule book correctly,i have to keep the stock compression and only 1 mm overbore. so by that if i just change pistons i'm stuck only in t-bike. hey trojan, where in england are you? i'm from southport originally. i'd love to get back there.its been about 27 years for me. |
