G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Motorcycle Forum » Buell RACING & More » Racing - Bonneville, Land Speed Records » Bonneville 200 MPH Club update---action needed!! « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey everyone,I got this information from a friend who also races at Bonneville.He is seeking a record on a very nice, very built Hayabusa,wanting to get over 200 and get into the 200 mph Club.Well it seems the 200MPH Club directors in their infinite wisdom have set arbitrary minimums on a bunch of the motorcycle classes.I guess in fear that their good old boys club might be too easy to get into. A fear I think is misguided by all the hype around the top speed capabilities of some bikes ON THE STREET AT SEA LEVEL BY PROFESSIONAL TESTRIDERS!!!!!! I can attest to the fact that just because you have a fast streetbike,when you come to Bonneville,the altitude and the salt traction will set you straight in a hurry.Last year there was a large number of hotrod Hayabusas that showed up with the thought that 200mph was going to be a breeze.I know almost none made it even to 195.So in a misguided effort to keep the racing REAL,they have set some very tough standards,even a little unrealistic looking at the present records.So its possible to work your ass off,go over 200 mph,set a record,---and still NOT get in the 200 mph Club.I think a letter writing campaign is in order.It worked when the rules committee changed the "A" class rules and enough people complained.Appears that the 2003 rules are to be rescinded.So pass this on to your friends and lets let the racing set the standards,you know----competition!!!I had that 200mph Club in sight and now they have raised the bar to over 215 from a 135mph record. The following are some excerpts from John's e-mails and a website for the 200 MPH Club.
Thanks, Jim Higgins.
>I'm still on the Bonneville fence. As you know, my goal all along was the
>Bonneville 200 MPH Club. For 2003, they created minimum speeds INDEPENDENT
>of the records over 200 mph for various classes, including the 1650cc MPS-G
>class I ran in. Now, although the standing record is 208.77 MPH, and three
>guys entered the Club in the last year pushing up that record, the Club
>will
>only induct a racer who exceeds a two-way average of 225 MPH for that
>class.>
>The very reason I'm bringing it to your attention. Because, of course,
>you're quite right. Hayabusas and ZX-12s have been hurling themselves at
>those records, and the standing record is 208.77MPH. In fact, no less than
>a Muzzys-backed ZX-12 managed a 203.something in that class last year. If
>a
>factory-backed bike is struggling to get that speed, a 225 bogey is simply
>an exclusion device. And while the may force exclusivity, it also damages
>the Club's credibility and brand value. Can you imagine that someone could
>run 224.999 MPH at Bonneville - waaaay faster than the record and faster
>than ANY gas bike in ANY class EVER - and be excluded from the 200 MPH
>Club?! Stunning!
>
>Lemme see...Get in a club...and then change the rules until the new kids
>can't join too. I think the superhero club I wanted to join in the old
>neighbour might have been like that too - and after my mom knit me a cape
>and everything!

http://www.bonneville200mph.org/
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Josh_
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Per their website:
Over the years, new classes have been added by SCTA & USFRA. You will notice that all of the classes that are still open have minimum speeds.

It's a great accomplishment to break an existing record. To set a record in an open class is the same accomplishment because of the established minimum speeds.

If the Bonneville 200 MPH Club did not establish these minimums, it would lose much of its integrity and credibility. This would not be fair to all of the people who have worked so hard to break records or minimums to become a member.


Which is all fine and dandy - except that also per their website, only motorcycles have minimum speeds.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jeez,they set the minimum for MPS 1650 PG at a faster minimum than Team Elves ran with the nitrous!!!!!(PG means gasoline only!!!!)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aaron
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I agree with you guys, it doesn't make much sense. A lot of those numbers sure seem arbitrary and way the hell out there. It cheapens the whole deal, and detracts from the accomplishments of those who worked real hard to get in already. After all, there are now 2 classes of members, pre-minimums and post-minimums, and as Jim pointed out, multiple people who made it in 2002 and prior years would not get there with the same speed in 2003.

But what can you do, it's their "club".

On that 1650cc MPS-G thing, I'd check on that. Seems like on the other classes, they adopted the clasc record as the minimum if the existing record was over 200. But not on that one. Perhaps it's a mistake?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Peter
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe they should close the 200mph club, so that's it's membership remains those who had to work hard to get in there, and start a 250mph club to up the ante now that technology has made it easier to go faster.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Roc
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On the way to Colorado last year my Pop and I stopped by Big Twin MC, owned by Henry Louie the Bonneville bike guru. He told us all about the proposed changes he and the few other Bonneville motorcycle decision makers were going to propose and it pissed me off.

It wasted some efforts I had made, kind of a 1 - 2 punch with the weather, and seemed to make no sense for the organization. He told me that records were to easy and that efforts to produce bikes in the more fabrication intensive classes were jeopardized by loop holes in the current regulations, or something to that effect.

I told him that all that it would end up doing was limiting participation and enthusiasm for the organization. Differences in class should be allowances that provide for more specialization and greater speed, not a deterrent to potential participation.

FMJ - I guess in fear that their good old boys club might be too easy to get into. Perhaps the only explanation.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why not start our own club?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rocketman
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's a GREAT idea Blake.

Rocket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blasterd
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a friend that ran 218 on his Hyabusa a short while ago, we had a cam mounted to his tank and recorded the speed.
Ken
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tripper
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Recorded the speed as shown on the speedo? hahahahahha......
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blasterd
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just something neat to do Triper, he wasn't setting any records or anything.......
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dynarider
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ken most speedos are hopelessly optomistic at higher speeds. I have heard figures of 10-15% faster than actual speed. That would make your buddies speed anywhere from 185-197. Still impressive but not going to come close to any records.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blasterd:

Not only was he not setting any records, he was no where NEAR 218. If he tells you he was, dig out your 8th grade math books and show him what it would take to propel a 'Busa 218.

One of the interesting quirks of the 1300cc engine is it's ability to induce fog like fantasy on the owner.

The 'Busa is a seriously fast bike, in addition to being superbly made. But it's legend and lore are making too many people parts of highway guard rails at a young age.

Going 218 anywhere but a "closed course" (and please share this with your buddy) is LUDANE! It's not his life that worries me, it's the other innocent potential victims on the road.

Court
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blasterd
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Again, I wasn't referring to going 218 as something neat to do, I meant mounting a camera. And I was just stating what the speedo said, it is something you don't see much- (that is a speedo register 218). Court, this was done at an airstrip, not on Route 66. Have a nice day everyone
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tripper
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blasterd, I have a video clip of a Busa going 320 (kph). Do you have broadband email? I'll send it to ya. It's great, half the video is blue sky!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blasterd
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tripper, I'd love to see it. Send it to keno@barneshc.com I'll catch it at work with DSL.
Ken
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check out the similar thread on Suzukihayabusa.org.
One of the 200 MPH board members is trying to defend his position.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=000190 #000034
Here is the link,tell him what you think.Thanks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You guys really need to check out the thread over on the Hayabusa site.Aaron has come over and has jumped right in.I am going to continue to throw their own facts and figures gleaned from SCTA records at them and hope we can effect some changes based on real world.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim_witt
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yow'za,

Larry Forstall (LandspeedLarry Bonneville bike) ......









-JW:>);

edited by jim_witt on July 14, 2003
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aaron
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Awhile back I sent a note to the appropriate person regarding PG classes and 200mph, basically just showed the math and why I thought their above 200 minimums were unreasonable. Got this e-mail today:

Aaron,

Thank you for the information both opinion and technical for the review.

All of the pushrod gas classes with exception of blown classes have been moved back to the 200 minimum for the two club. This includes the m, a, aps, mps classes from 750cc - 3000cc. No sense in moving the 1650 class down and not the others below it.

So it is done, and updates are being done on the two club website and will be adjusted accordingly in the two club book for speedweek.


So, y'see, they listen ;)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jprovo
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 07:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron,

That's great! I lurked throught the conversation on the Busa board, but really couldn't add to the conversation, so I kept quiet. I'm glad that you got them to think analytically, and change their decision.

James
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim_witt
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 07:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good news and good work Aaron,

Just goes to show what constructive input and effort accomplishes ... but you already know that anyway.

-JW:>;)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 08:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aaron,great work!!!I certainly appreciate your taking the time to do the math and send it off to the Board.Its nice to know they were actually willing to listen.Gives me a nice goal to shoot for.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Congratulations!

A 200MPH club with a 200MPH threshold...

Good work,
Court
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But the OHC bikes are still boofed? Those guys are being real jerks and awefully petty about something that is purely 100% for fun.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes that's still the case,Blake.But the reality of it is in the classes they were most worried about--ie MPS/APS 1350/MPS/APS 1650 --where the Hayabusa,Blackbird etc. fall, the records are all well above the 200 mph level,anyway.They did not really go after the smaller displacement classes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Anonymous
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting discussion. In regards to the 'busa "state of the art" aerodynamics, I ask all to check out how many records are held by a Scott Guthrie. He ran RW-750 bodywork on his Yamahas, and another guy who ran Kawasakis to some records did as well. Betcha that bodywork and Aaron's RR-1000 (which was a derivative) are better than the 'busa, and the RR1000 design dates to 1985...

Oh the agony of having to build naked bikes because that's what people want...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firemanjim
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In case you haven't noticed,there are an AWFUL lot us here that do not want naked bikes.(Kinda why I still have 2 S-2"s.)We want more coverage!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Crusty
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just want hard bags.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aaron
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just comparing speed vs. hp required data points that I have, the 'busa and the RR are close. I may have an edge but it's not huge by any means. As much as I like the RR and all, the 'busa seems to do a better job of keeping the front end down at speed. Take a look under the 'busa's fairing nose sometime.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aaron
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 01:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jim, the S2 is still naked in my book. You can see the engine! Hell, it's way more naked than the XB's. There's something very aesthetically pleasing to me about being able to see the engine. I guess they just fascinate me.

Tell you what though, I have a few bikes to choose from and I ride damn near every day, and for some reason almost every morning I find myself gravitating toward that S2. I don't know exactly why, either. It's not the fastest bike I own by a mile, doesn't have the best brakes, doesn't wheelie or stoppie all that well, not much lean angle, etc etc. But somehow when I ride it I just feel like the bike is a part of me, like it can read my mind and I can read it's mind and we're just made for each other. I just really enjoy riding that bike. I can't imagine being without an S2.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 06:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>I guess they just fascinate me.

You don't say ? ? ?

Get back out to that garage.

:)

after you register

Court
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration