| Author | Message | ||
     Ebear |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=30726 "Unusual Technical solutions such as the exhaust positioned under the bike" | ||
| Hexangler |
http://www.ktm-rc8.net/ Hex | ||
| Trojan |
They will be running two bikes in World Superstock next year and have a two year plan to get onto the podium. In 2009 they will run the bike in WSB as well. How is it that a young small company the size of KTM can be so proactive and compete so well in just about every world class level motorcycle sport? Other than MotoGP they have achieved every goal the have set themselves so far and continue to impress me greatly. When they entered 250GP a couple of years ago they were written off almost immediately by people who said that a parrallel twin couldn't compete with the V twins of Honda & Aprilia. Now the KTM is a regular front runner & GP winner. When you speak to the people involved with KTM they are incredibly laid back yet extremely competitive, most of whom would not seem out of place at the local skate park! I think they'll upset a few established teams over the next few seasons  | ||
| Jaimec |
Matt: They say a wise man learns from his mistakes. A WISER man learns from the mistakes of OTHERS... | ||
| Ebear |
So you think they are all kick back and cool?A certain Anonymous met with Myself and Don Sabatino a few years ago at a large So-Cal event and told us a VERY animated story concerning their Boss meeting with Harley and Buell about a possible purchase of KTM.The explanation of his Opinions and Attitudes about HD and Buell products has caused me to dislike that person and in part that company ever since.Granted you can't judge a company by one persons opinions but in this case,this person was in a position to have known better .Or at least not shown himself to be a MAJOR DICK!!!!!! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
KTM is not a small company. It is definately bigger than Buell. They are a major force in MX and Enduro bikes, and sell them by thousands. I have friends involved in dirt track and MX, they all dislike KTM, for not particular reason. Ah, if only Husaberg and Husqvarna had more reliable engines, they say.... I have given a go at 990 KTM superDuke, that "EXPERT" journalists really liked. I did not like that bike. Too light steering for me, no thanks. I would choose my XB12R ,anytime. Will the KTM do well in 4-stroke racing ?? Noone knows. Their 990cc motoGP engine was a disaster. KR team had a bad year, and when they switched to a Honda 990cc they were starting getting results in '06. Also Austrians seem to have a "Nazi" friendly goverment in Europe, so........I don't like KTM much | ||
| Blake |
Nice potential race bike. Looks like a total nut-cruncher for street use. 200-Kg wet and in the showroom by March 2008? On the podium in WSB in 2009? How long ago did KTM announce the LC8 Superbike anyway? Wasn't it like three years ago? I gave up holding my breath on that bike a LONG time ago. It's quite anti-climactic three years later. How cool would it be if a Buell beat them to the WSBK podium? | ||
| Blake |
"Form Follows Fiction" For the LC8, that is so appropriately true. Just what, six years, in the making? | ||
| Spike |
I dig the RC8 concept, but it's hard to argue with Blake on the timing. I remember Blake making the post back in '04 about it coming in '07, and the concept wasn't entirely new then. We've been looking at pictures of the SuperDuke and the RC8 since 2003 when the XB12s were new and available for purchase at your local dealer. We just got the SuperDuke in the U.S. this year and now it looks like we'll get the RC8 next year. Bumping the RC8 to 1150cc helps, but it's hard to stay about a "new" product for ~5 years. It's about like Honda telling us the NAS will be available for '08. | ||
| Rainman |
I don't know about all that. I do know that I enjoyed riding the Super Duke and a left-over 950 Adventure around town for a couple of days. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Also Austrians seem to have a "Nazi" friendly goverment in Europe, so........I don't like KTM much" Ah, isn't Rotax located in Austria? | ||
| Trojan |
How long ago did KTM announce the LC8 Superbike anyway? Wasn't it like three years ago? I gave up holding my breath on that bike a LONG time ago. It's quite anti-climactic three years later. The RC8 has been a long time coming. Partly because of the change in WSb rules to allow 1200cc bikes to compete, and partly because they did not want to release it until it was absolutely ready. Maybe a few other companies could learn from that. KTM is not a small company. It is definately bigger than Buell. They are a major force in MX and Enduro bikes, and sell them by thousands. KTM may have been going since 1953, but they basically started again from scratch in 1992 following bankrupcy. Everything they have done to date has been developed since then. They are a tiny company compared to the Big 4, or even to H-D (who at one time thought to gobble up KTM). To have grown to the size they have in such a short time is a great testament to KTM's products and attitude. Theyhave a goal to become Europes bigest bike brand adn I believe they will accomplish just that. I have friends involved in dirt track and MX, they all dislike KTM, for not particular reason. Ah, if only Husaberg and Husqvarna had more reliable engines, they say.... Like them or dislike them, KTM's bikes are at the top of every off-road discipline except trials, and they are doing teh same for their road bike & road racing range too. By the way, KTM owns Husaberg (and White Power suspension) and has been steadily improving their products since they bought them out. Before KTM bought them Husaberg were a joke in dirt riding circles, with an awful reliability record. How cool would it be if a Buell beat them to the WSBK podium? Hardly likely though is it? | ||
| Anonymous |
Trojan, Before KTM bought Husaberg, that little company (Husaberg) had won two world MX titles with a company making 600 motorcycles per year. They invented the modern 4-stroke MX engine, no one else. And KTM bought them, took their latest designs and put them onto KTM's. Don't you dare say Husaberg was a joke. That is sheer ignorance. | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm not getting into any fist fights that lead to me dissing Buell, but I'll border on me saying that every time KTM seem to do something there are those here who are quick to point out something disappointing about KTM. The RC8 is remarkable. It's taken 5 years since sketch to production, but more than that, after 2 years it was all but ready for production using the 990cc Adventure engine, then WSB rule changes were announced, and KTM started again. Since then KTM have designed and built an all new 1190cc engine, to allow for them going racing in WSB. Such has meant a complete redesign of the original RC8 concept, including new chassis and bodywork, yet KTM have managed to retain the looks of the original concept along the way. We should be cheering the efforts of such bold designs. Such designs are what keeps the public's imagination and interests alive, and they offer choice. Without choice some would never buy a KTM, and some would never buy a Buell. Horses for courses. KTM's course is very different from Buells. Unfortunately for Buell, I fear KTM will steal some of Buells thunder in the salesroom. At least in Europe anyway. Rocket | ||
| Anonymous |
KTM's new engine is not a 1190, but a 1148cc. They only call it a 1190. | ||
| Rocketman |
But it will be at 1190 in WSB race trim. Rocket | ||
| Jima4media |
The same is likely to be true about the Ducati 1098. It will probably be something like 1198 when it starts racing in WSBK, next year. I would like to see a three-way battle between big-bore V-Twins for a change. Jim (Message edited by jima4media on November 11, 2007) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
KTM said that they will enter world Superstock next year. Is this possible with a +1100cc twin? So Will Ducati enter he Superstock next year with the 1098R or with 1098S? | ||
| Trojan |
Before KTM bought Husaberg, that little company (Husaberg) had won two world MX titles with a company making 600 motorcycles per year. They invented the modern 4-stroke MX engine, no one else. And KTM bought them, took their latest designs and put them onto KTM's. Don't you dare say Husaberg was a joke. That is sheer ignorance. Then I can only speculate that you have never owned an early Husaberg! Their reliability record was appalling, with engine life measured in tens of hours rather than hundreds. They may have won 2 MX titles but the customer bikes were terrible and build quality really was a standing joke in off road circles. Also to suggest that they 'invented' the MX 4 stroke motor is wrong. What do you think CCM and BSA were using many years before, elastic band motors? What Husaberg did was to mate a 4 stroke top end to a 2 stroke bottom end, and it took many years to get it to work as intended and reach its full potential. The thing that led the development and has made the engine reach its potential was KTM money, so of course they have the right to use the fruits of their labours in other KTM bikes if they so wish. I'm sure if H-D wanted to use Buell motors after paying the development costs they would do so. If you were as informed as you make out, you would know that the next generation Husaberg 450 motor (launched next year) is actually nothing like the current KTM and is more like a Cannondale/ATK motor with a reversed cylinder head and forward facing throttle bodies. The motor makes more power than the curent KTM 450 but is unlikely to find its way into the KTM range for some time. The KTM RC8 will be available in two versions. The 1148 has been specifically designed with road riders in mind & will be used for Superstock racing. The 1190 is designed specifically for WSB and other high level competition use. KTM have launched this bike into the full glare and white hot competition of World Supersport competition in 2008 and WSB in 2009, with very high goals and aspirations. This is a company that has only built one other pure road bike in its short history (the much acclaimed 990 Superduke), so is setting itself some very high standards and I for one congratulate them and hope they achieve them. Why is it that Buell are so keen to flame KTM for anything they do? Feeling threatened? | ||
| Court |
>>>If you were as informed as you make out, Uhh......if it's the Anonymous I think it is he has a Husaberg sitting in his garage and, having spent some time working as a motorcycle mechanic, I suspect is pretty fluent with the bike inside and out. The internet gives little merit to facts however and simply knowing is subrogated to SAYING you know. I, as a BMW owner, always get a bit of a giggle when someone tells me how a BMW runs/rides. Ya gotta love the internet. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Why is it that Buell are so keen to flame KTM for anything they do? Feeling threatened?" Maybe yes, Buell feels threatened. KTM has also reliability issues, with their early models. I found their Superduke too flighty for my taste, and for me a tall street bike with a high CG is not a very clever idea. I definately prefer the rock solid feel of the XB or a Ducati, and the low center of gravity of the XB. But I also prefer the KTM's 990cc engine performance over the XB. Fortunately the 1125R fixed that. I am not flaming KTM, it is just my opinion. The same goes Aprilia. I would choose Ducati or Buell, than KTM or Aprilia, any time. | ||
| Spike |
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I usually only speak out against them following some excessive hype. I really love KTM products, I even have one in my garage right now. They really have the dirt market covered, and as I've said elsewhere when they get serious with the street market they will quickly become a major player. However, they've yet to actually give us anything serious for the street market except the over-hyped Superduke (which took 4 years to release) and the yet to be released RC8, which has been shown to us as a teaser for some 5 years now. I'm excited about what KTM has to offer and the things they will achieve in the upcoming years, but to act as if they have achieved those things already and praise them for doing so is akin to praising the MotoCzysz for being such a great MotoGP bike. | ||
| Trojan |
they've yet to actually give us anything serious for the street market except the over-hyped Superduke (which took 4 years to release) and the yet to be released RC8, which has been shown to us as a teaser for some 5 years now. We've had the Superduke here since 2005, so it didn't take 4 years to release, just 4 years to release in the USA. My praise for KTM is not that they have built a world beating bike, as this has yet to be proved, but they are willing to pitch it straight into world class competition in order to prove how good it is. What I cannot understand is that Anony seems to think that praise for another product should be automatically construed as criticism of Buell, and that he feels the need to denigrate another manufacturers product whenever somebody says something good about them, be it KTM, Honda or whatever. If he is that sensitive he is probably in the wrong business. If anony has a Husaberg sitting in his garage then so what. That does not alter or diminish what I said about their build qualilty or their reliability record. I had one in my garage for a while too, and could hardly give the thing away because their reputation was so bad. The internet gives little merit to facts however and simply knowing is subrogated to SAYING you know. So just because this is the internet I and other posters who don't necessarily agree with the Buell party line don't know what we're talking about? If that is true for me (which it isn't) then it follows that it is true for everyone on here including you and anony, although it seems that we have to accept what you and Anony say is fact without question. You and anony (whoever he/she may be) do not have a monopoly on fact and truth. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"My praise for KTM is not that they have built a world beating bike, as this has yet to be proved, but they are willing to pitch it straight into world class competition in order to prove how good it is." Very good point. Is Buell listening ???? | ||
| Ebear |
Sooo what DID happen to the Superduke? I have seen only ONE on the street here in SoCal.Saw the first couple imported here(illegally as grey market) years ago and they were incredibly expensive and the body work was ghastly.If they are that good,how come there not around?I know the people whom rode them for magazines like them but they need to sell more than a few and allow test rides to become popular.I,for one, will NEVER buy a bike I can't ride first no matter who makes it.Some of my friends ride KTM dirt bikes and they perform well,but so do Alot of other Japanese bikes and they are half the price.And on the note of WSB,I believe the AMA said when they allow V-twins in at up to 1200cc that means only if they are sold to the public in that size.If you build as a,say,1125 you have to race it as an 1125,not up to a 1200. This isn't so for WSB?Perhaps here we will have to homologate an 1199R to race and maybe as a limited release for public consumption...(YaaaHooo?) (I know,I know....we can't talk about future models...) | ||
| Trojan |
KTM are building an 1190cc bike for WSB and it will also be available to race in other domestic Superbike championships who apply the same rules. They will have to build enough of the 1190 bikes to homologate it, and these will be available as the RC8R model to those who can afford it and want to run one on the road in the same way that Ducati will produce the 1098R. Unfortunately 2008 sees WSB and BSB/AMA using different engine tuning rules so nobody is sure yet who will race where and in which format. One thing is for certain, and that is KTM will run a team in World Superstock next year in 1148cc form. If you want to see the popularity of the KTM Superduke in Europe take a look at http://www.superduke.net/forum/index.php While there, ask how many owners are ex-Buell owners. It is quite sobering when you find out. The Superduke is still very new in the USA, but is gaining popularity all the time. We have quite a number of customers in the US with 07 bikes already. The KTM will always be a minority market in the US simply because the price puts it in the same bracket as Ducati, Benelli, MV etc. Not everyone likes the design or the plastics, but lets be fair, not everyone likes the Buell aesthetics either. Over here the price differential is much smaller, and you can pick up a new Superduke at less than an XB12 if you shop around. | ||
| Trojan |
By the way, the UK allocation for the RC8 in 2008 is 300 units. These are ALL sold already so like it or loathe it, this bike looks set to make an impact, and at a price cheaper than the base 1098 Ducati.    | ||
| Spike |
Just in case anyone here is affected by the growing Superduke popularity, my brother in law is still trying to sell his: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/438431862.html You'll notice that ad is from October, and the selling price is $3500 less than what he paid for it in March. He's been trying to sell it since July. The bike is currently sitting at a local dealer on consignment. So much for only Buells having a rough resale. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm enjoying reading these threads, and trying to stay out of them, but I can answer one question Matt asked above... The reason Anony percieves any mention you make Matt, of any other brand, as an attack... might have something to do with the fact that every time you mention them, it's in context of an attack on Buell. For what that's worth. ;) | ||
| Jens |
The KTM RC8 design is stolen from our friends from Kalex.... http://www.kalex-moto.de/ (Message edited by Jens on November 12, 2007) |
