| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
>>>Care to elaborate? One of the best and most enthusiastic riders at the first Blue Groove in 1997 was a young man who was a Hells Angel from San Francisco. He was, in my mind, a true anomaly. Quiet, polite and an excellent rider. Destroyed many of my baseless assumptions. Court And was he riding this Buell in his colors with no helmet (no self respecting Hell's Angel would ever wear a helmet)? If not, could he really be considered a self-respecting Hell's Angel, or just a nice guy who used to hang out with the San Francisco group? You wouldn't happen to have a photo of the guy on a Buell, would you?  | ||
| Court |
No . . but being a serial liar I can pull this stuff off.  Forget I ever said it. Besides, it was hearsay . . . I can not PROVE. as defined by the rules of civil procedure, he was actually a Hell's Angel. Ya got me. | ||
| Rocketman |
Enough trolling for one day. Shit deleted. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on June 11, 2007) | ||
| Slaughter |
Rocket - you're giving me a major hard-on! I secretly lust after you - you're so ... FORCEFUL. It's what I really love in a man. (shhhhh, it's just our little secret) XOXOXO (Message edited by slaughter on June 11, 2007) | ||
| Crusty |
no self respecting Hell's Angel would ever wear a helmet I've seen several. A flat black full face helmet with a reflective face shield makes it very difficult to I.D. a rider. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Maybe so, but everyone wears a helmet in CA if they wanna ride. And I have seen HA's on Buells in SF and Oakland. | ||
| Rocketman |
When I bought my S1W in 1998, there were two S1WL 's that I have seen back then that were owned by members of HA Nottingham Chapter. Both White Lightnings had Death Heads airbrushed on the tanks, and 'Hells Angels England' or some similar words in the HA red and white font airbrushed on the front huggers or some other area. They did look cool it has to be said, and stood out more boldly than the HA similar airbrushings on the Harleys I saw parked outside the HA bar \ Clubhouse in Manhattan. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
And how do you know that they were really All American Hell's Angels members? You may have seen biker boyz all dressed up in their cute little garb, but that doesn't make them the genuine article. All I am saying is that this means that they weren't really self-respecting Hells Angels...in case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of poseurs out there. | ||
| Jimidan |
Both White Lightnings had Death Heads airbrushed on the tanks, and 'Hells Angels England' or some similar words in the HA red and white font airbrushed on the front huggers or some other area. They did look cool it has to be said, and stood out more boldly than the HA similar airbrushings on the Harleys I saw parked outside the HA bar \ Clubhouse in Manhattan. I guess they did stand out since they were painted on a sportbike. I have seen all kinds of chrome chopper stuff on Buells...and it all looked like crap to me, IMHO. These are sportbikes, fer crissakes, but some folks think it looks good, so more power to them. Pink FLoyd was right in The Final Cut. jimidan} | ||
| Jimidan |
Maybe so, but everyone wears a helmet in CA if they wanna ride. And I have seen HA's on Buells in SF and Oakland. I guess they have lost their self respect, huh? Westside!} | ||
| Rocketman |
Since when was an S1W, a White Lightning at that, a sportsbike? Last I looked even Buell were calling it a 'hooligan streetfighter'. Seems to me Jim, you don't know what a sportsbike is, nor a Hells Angel. Might I suggest, if you're gonna try and stir up controversy, at least try and do it properly, like I do. Your argument has to hold water. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Thanks for the advice on how to stir up controversy on here, but I don't need no edumacation...dahhh dunt, dah dah dahhh dunt, I don't need no thought control, dahhh dunt, dah dah dahhh dunt. Your arguments may hold water like a pig's bladder up in the sky, but you are playing fast and loose with the facts here...Mr. One Star. I know what a Hell's Angel is in America, but what constitutes one in Great Britain is entirely another matter...the land where Rod Stewart and Elton John were sex symbol's, and Prince Charles is the resident stud. I can only imagine, that in England Hell's Angels are a bunch of misfit hooligans who were raised by their mommies after all their daddies got killed in the war...like Pink Floyd sez. Without strong male role models, they sort of had to wing it and thus, copied the images of real Hell's Angels that came out of America, but filtered through the maternal mindset. BTW, Pink Floyd is an authority on this subject as they have devoted many hours of lyrical verse on just this topic. You can't have any porridge if you don't eat your meat! How am I doing so far?  Buells are sportbikes by definition under the National Motorcycle Association's criteria, which is a standard used by most insurance companies in establishing their actuarial tables. The following article will help you understand the complexities of this issue. } Where Does Mine Fit Have you ever wondered what category the motorcycle you just saw driving down the street fits into? There are four major classes of street motorcycles sold in America today. Most of the major motorcycle manufacturers (Harley-Davidson, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha) make models in each category except for a few exceptions. The following classifications will help you identify types of motorcycles and what class they fit in. The first type of motorcycle classification is one that has enjoyed huge growth in the last couple of years. If you hear a motorcycle coming down the road, it most likely a cruiser. The cruiser group is quite possibly the easiest group to spot. The motorcycles are low, long and loud. Most of them have large amounts of chrome and custom paint jobs. Harley-Davidson is the major manufacturer of cruisers. It makes many different models and sizes ranging from beginning cruisers to large Road King cruisers. The Japanese have been trying to copy Harley-Davidson and get the cruiser look right for years and are finally getting close to the look and sound of the Harley. Even BMW makes a cruiser type motorcycle. Most of the cruisers that you see on the street have been highly customized by their owners. Part of the appeal of the cruiser is the ability of the owner to customize the motorcycles to their liking with readily available aftermarket parts. The next biggest group of street motorcycles would be sportbikes. These bikes are easily recognized by their dedicated riding position and colorful bodywork. The riding position places most of the rider’s weight on the wrists instead of sitting on the seat like a cruiser. It is easy to recognize this riding position as it looks like the rider is sitting over the front wheel. This riding style works great on the racetrack where the rider is changing position a lot, but can be painful while riding for long distances. Sportbikes are generally popular with the younger crowd, most likely because of the high performance that they offer. But not all sportbike riders are young; every now and then you will see an older rider enjoying a sportbike. The riding position may also contribute to the younger riders, as they can handle the punishment better than the older riders. Another recognizable aspect of sportbikes is colorful bodywork and paint schemes. Most sportbikes come off the showroom floor with a paint scheme that makes the motorcycle seem like it is going a hundred miles per hour even though it is sitting still. Another class that is gaining popularity is the standard class. This class was popular in the late seventies and early eighties, until the sportbike class took most of its riders away. Now the riders that switched to sportbikes are switching back to standards because they are looking for a more comfortable bike but doesn’t want to sacrifice too much performance. A standard has a relaxed riding position with the rider learning forward into the wind. It usually does not have a fairing although some of the newer models are starting to come with half fairing to better the wind protection for the rider. They come with regular handlebars, not clip-on handlebars like a sportbike. Many riders will change the handlebar position around to better suit their own personal tastes. That is one of the distinguishing features of a standard, as they are easily changed to suit the rider. The last major classification of street motorcycles is the touring class. These are definitely the most recognizable class of motorcycles, because of their size. They are definitely the biggest things on two wheels that can be seen driving on the road. They are covered with plastic bodywork and have all kinds of storage areas around the motorcycle. Many have options that you would only expect to see in a car – radio, CD changer, air conditions, cell phone, and even a reverse gear. Honda is king of the touring class with their Gold Wing model. It is powered by a 1600cc six-cylinder motor and a 5-speed transmission. Other manufacturers that produce a touring motorcycle include BMW, Harley-Davidson, Kawasaki and Yamaha. These are the four major classes of motorcycles. There are some smaller groups of motorcycles, even some motorcycles that really can’t be classified into a group, yet these are few and far between. So the next time you see a full-on sportbike, a chopped-out cruiser, or a huge tourer, you will be able to identify (if you want to) what class of motorcycle you just saw. Then Wikapedia further defines sport bike: "The Motorcycle Safety Foundation groups motorcycles into three separate classes; street, off-road, or dual-sport. Sport bikes are a type of motorcycle that fall under the street classification and generally emphasize performance over practicality. Overview With the emphasis of a sport bike being on speed, acceleration, deceleration, and maneuverability, there are certain design elements that most motorcycles of this type will share. Sport bikes have comparatively high performance engines resting inside a lightweight frame. The combination of these help maintain structural integrity and chassis rigidity. Braking systems combine higher performance brake pads and multi-pistons caliper that clamp onto oversized vented rotors. Suspension systems are advanced in terms of adjustments and materials for increased stability and durability. Front and rear tires are larger and wider than tires found on other types of motorcycles to accommodate higher cornering speeds and greater lean angles. Fairings may or may not be found on a sport bike. When used, the fairings are shaped to reduce aerodynamic drag as much as possible and less as wind protection for the rider. The performance of some stock sport bikes are so great that they can be ready for race track usage right off of the showroom floor (commonly referred to as being motorcycles that you ride to work on Monday and raced on Sunday). These overall design traits mean sport bikes are generally less practical for street use when compared to most other types of motorcycles. There is little in the way of extra features or creature comforts like those present on touring motorcycles such as center stands, provisions for saddle bags, large windshields, or fairings providing protection from rain. Rider position and ergonomics are compromised in favor of weight distribution and aerodynamics. This generally means higher foot pegs that move the legs closer to the body and more of a reach to a lower set of hand controls which positions the body and weight forward and over the tank. The term crotch rockets is slang for some types of sport bikes, mainly super sport and super bikes. The name is derived from the way the rider sits on the bike and from the speed and acceleration these bikes are capable of. A sport bike's foot pegs and shifter are located farther back than a conventional or 'cruiser' motorcycles; this puts the rider in a position that is more streamlined and aerodynamic and places the rider's crotch in very close contact with the seat. But enough of this fun...I have a Ducati to paint today. Pink Floyd was right! (Message edited by jimidan on June 12, 2007) | ||
| Court |
I'm feeling pretty lame about wasting all that money on an Ivy League education when I could have just come here, bask in the omniscience and set about setting the world on the straight and narrow. God love the internet! | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..I am just asking for a modern engine, that will allow the XB chassis to reach its full potential, and Buell to have in its moto range the best sportbike..." I can understand that desire. And I'd like to see Buell pursue that if it is something they can do. The biggest hurdle may be doing it within Buell's financial assets and capabilities. If it did not succeed and sell, it could kill Buell. H-D is not some evil kingdom that is preventing Buell from moving on. Buell's effort has to make sense from a marketing and economic viewpoint and within the corporate structure. The thing that really allowed Buell get started was using an existing H-D engine for the Buells. Whether or not Buell wants to and will be able to move on to another and more modern drive line, remains to be seen. But if Buell did it and it turned out to look like and sound like the rice rockets, what would you have? A more expensive, American made, potato rocket? If so, it might not be of much interest to a lot of us who are essentially V-twin or big bang engine afficianadoes. Maybe Erik can pull it off and come up with something. Maybe the hints of things to come like the dirt bikes are a path to bigger and better things. Jack | ||
| Blake |
Hey Jimi, I agree that the S1/S1W falls into the main category of sport bike. However, according to your quoted text seeking to describe the major categories of motorcycle, the S1/S1W would not be sport bikes on account of the requirement for a lot of colorful bodywork and most of the weight resting on the wrists, which is a bogus claim; it should say "some weight resting on the wrists" or "offering ergonomics having a forward lean more so than an upright seated position." So I disagree with that quoted definition of what defines a sport bike. I do agree that most all of the street-fighter type bikes comprise a subset of the sport bike category. Some people mistakenly use the term "sport bike" synonymously with "repli-racer". I think that is what Sean is doing. I'd say that a repli-racer is one subset of the main category known as sport bikes. So we have... Cruiser Sport Bike Standard Touring Dirt Bike Dual Purpose (street and dirt) I'd say then that there are six main categories of motorcycle. Yes? | ||
| Rocketman |
Jim, I don't think much difference exists between Hells Angels the world over, regarding your observations. I suspect any nationality of HA would give you a good kicking for them though. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
I suspect any nationality of HA would give you a good kicking for them though. So THAT is what this is really all about...a good ass kicking? Really! Shucks, it isn't that hard to kick my old arse around, that is why I pack heat. But that is another story. The best way to avoid an ass-kicking is to avoid ass-kickers, or guys with, er ah, little weanies (for instance) who feel like they have to over compensate for their inadequacies just like their old man did when he kicked their asses when they were kids. You don't learn about his stuff in Ivy League schools either! I'm feeling pretty lame about wasting all that money on an Ivy League education when I could have just come here, bask in the omniscience and set about setting the world on the straight and narrow. I think I would feel pretty lame about spending (wasting) all this time on the internet reading the musings of an old retired guy after spending all that money on an Ivy League edumacation...I am glad you aren't working for me!  Get back to work!  } | ||
| Jimidan |
I agree that the S1/S1W falls into the main category of sport bike. However, according to your quoted text seeking to describe the major categories of motorcycle, the S1/S1W would not be sport bikes on account of the requirement for a lot of colorful bodywork and most of the weight resting on the wrists, which is a bogus claim; it should say "some weight resting on the wrists" or "offering ergonomics having a forward lean more so than an upright seated position." So I disagree with that quoted definition of what defines a sport bike. I do agree that most all of the street-fighter type bikes comprise a subset of the sport bike category. Some people mistakenly use the term "sport bike" synonymously with "repli-racer". I think that is what Sean is doing. I'd say that a repli-racer is one subset of the main category known as sport bikes. So we have... Cruiser Sport Bike Standard Touring Dirt Bike Dual Purpose (street and dirt) I'd say then that there are six main categories of motorcycle. Yes? Yes, I agree the sources I pulled up oversimplified this, as Ducati superbikes are surely sportbikes, but have very plain colorschemes...like Buells. It is mostly bullcrap but I thought it might amuse Rocket. Also, your types better describe the real world classification of types, although like you said, some are subsets. Also, by simply adding a set of clip-ons, the S1 definitely has your weight on the old wrists when riding around town. I know because I have had 3 of them (still have 1). It definitely takes very little modification to bring the S1 into the racer ergonomics class. They certainly handle like a sportbike too...with the emphasis on performance. | ||
| Rocketman |
that is why I pack heat. Big man. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Wrong. Big gun. | ||
| Rocketman |
Won't make much difference when HA come calling  Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Yeah, cause those patches give them super powers. | ||
| Blake |
Big race in France this weekend. Will the XBRR teams make it another 1-2 sweep? Will they make it five Buell XBRR wins in a row over a flock of Ducs and a gang Apes? Will the Ducati challenger struggle with a fogging faceshield? Stay tuned... | ||
| Davegess |
I have added a description of French Protwins Racing (and some photos) at www.pegasusracingnews.com . This will allow Rocket to bust my chops some more  | ||
| Jackbequick |
Great report at the link, thanks for that Dave. I don't understand some of the details and capabilities of all the bikes involved but the explanation of the rules was interesting. It seems to say to me that the Buells are holding their own within the rules for that racing and I'm glad to see that. They are obviously in the hands of some good riders too. I'd love to see some racing of that type over here. Jack | ||
| Rocketman |
This will allow Rocket to bust my chops some more You'll need to get Blake to allow me first Dave. This despite Blake having the privilege of provoking such comments I'd enjoy to give (Will the Ducati challenger struggle with a fogging faceshield?) But hey, this kind of promoting Buell at all costs is something I've campaigned against for a long time. Sadly these days, truths are only allowed if they suit the Buell hat wearers. Blake imagines 'some truths' as miserableness instead. Other truths, like Buell not racing in France, just a couple of privateer efforts instead, are held up as some great feat of Buells race prowess. You'd think on a Buell board that exposing such plagiarism would be welcome in an effort to embarrass those at Buell to put their own neck in the noose in an effort to give Buell fans what they really want. Buell in world class racing, and not just a handful of privateers going it alone. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
I'd love to see some racing of that type over here. Go to an AHRMA race sometimes...it would be your best shot, although, CCS and ASRA are great also. There are Buells everywhere!} | ||
| Jimidan |
Thanks for posting the info on French Protwins Racing Dave. It looks like there are some really tricked out bikes that these Buells are dominating, not just lightly modified productions. It sounds like a really fun series. | ||
| Blake |
"truths are only allowed if they suit the Buell hat wearers. Blake imagines 'some truths' as miserableness instead." Wrong, and wrong again. "Other truths, like Buell not racing in France, just a couple of privateer efforts instead, are held up as some great feat of Buells race prowess." Wrong. Of course it is an accomplishment to be congratulated and cheered. Some folks for whatever reason cannot stomach that, choosing instead to exploit a positive thread to launch yet another derisive, ignorant rant aimed at demeaning Buell. Content of that nature is unwelcome on BadWeB. "You'd think on a Buell board that exposing such plagiarism would be welcome in an effort to embarrass those at Buell to put their own neck in the noose in an effort to give Buell fans what they really want. " There was no plagiarism, and Buell has no need of derision or naysaying to motivate them towards further positive achievement in racing. Your commentary on the issue is simply tactless, ignorant, self-absorbed miserableness. If you want to help, then find them a benevolent sponsor for a full-blown factory racing effort. Otherwise, sometimes it's best to be quiet. | ||
| Anonymous |
A Buell XBRR won again this weekend, finishing ahead of a number of 8-valve Ducatis and Aprilias. Buell continues to lead in this French championship. |
