| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
Buell will be one of the top names in motorcycling racing over the next 5 years. You said as much a fortnight ago. Which discipline exactly? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Right Sean, they haven't fielded a factory team. But Buell Racing is very much alive and well and supporting a LOT of privateers. I'm sure they are intending to do even more. Supporting the privateers is Erik's passion. The recent press release about the in-work dirt bike stated that it is intended for competition, so that may be to what Court is alluding. There's probably more though, a lot more. Me? I'm going to give it another month and a half or so.  | ||
| Court |
A month and a half won't do it . . . But in 5 years Buell will be one of the major players in several widely divergent areas of motorcycle racing. Buell Racing took the 1/5 (not the 1, 2) punch on the chin this year. Much activity, albeit the less obvious elements, continues. No one in the racing department, nor anyone hired to develop racing activities went job hunting. The 1/5 just hit hard. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. It's going to depend on several factors . . . just my opinion. But there is no reason Buell can't run at the top of the pack that can't be overcome with the existing talent. Court | ||
| Anonymous |
Blake, You have the patience of Job to put up with Rocketman and not ban him for being nothing but a destructive troll. If anyone ever wanted proof that conservative right wing Texan folks give equal treatment of people, they need only look to you! | ||
| Rocketman |
You have the patience of Job to put up with Rocketman and not ban him for being nothing but a destructive troll. See, this is EXACTLY the problem that Buell create amongst their fans. Some of those fans Buell have lost to other brands because Buell, unlike every other motorcycle company of any standing, build bikes their customers ask for. When those Buell fans offer up criticism, the best you can argue is that these once Buell fans are now trolls. I must be speaking some truths if you find my comments destructive. Rocket | ||
| Jackbequick |
Sean, There is a big difference between "offering up criticism" and irrational, non-stop, ranting against Buells. You are in the latter case. The only reason we have to suffer your drivel here is because we are a tolerant society. The only reason I see anything you say here is because there is no <plonk> button. A question for the moderators: Why is Sean allowed the repeated use of obscenities? And why is he allowed to repeatedly refer to France and French people using a malicious and derisive term. An explicit and sincere apology from Sean to this forum and the nation of France is in order. Blake, Now about that <plonk> button... Jack | ||
| Anonymous |
If there ever were a grain of truth in what you have said, Rocketman, it is buried in an entire stew of bullshit, so no one is interested in straining for it. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Reading these posts, I do not understand why it is difficult for some people to be happy when a Buell XBRR does well. Whenever a XBRR beats any 1098, 999, 998 is excellent news, and it proves many things, that Buell riders already know, and the rest of the world don't. It shows the ability of the Buell bikes to handle and perform. Is the XBRR better than a 1098? It might be. Maybe in the certain races in France the XBRR has better riders than the Ducati. Maybe the XBRR is better suited for the particular track. Maybe the XBRR handles better than the 1098. Maybe the shorter wheelbase and the lower center of gravity and the bigger capacity engine gives and advantage over the long Ducati. Asumming the XBRR makes an extra +10-20Hp (which I doubt it) it still does not take anything away from the win, since we are not talking drag racing, but racing around a track. The win proves that the XBRR can handle. Also no matter how good a rider is or better than the opposition, he needs a good bike to win. One more thing : "Buell will be one of the top names in motorcycling racing over the next 5 years" For me 5 years is a long time...... | ||
| Trojan |
But in 5 years Buell will be one of the major players in several widely divergent areas of motorcycle racing. This is the same statement we have heard for a long time now, but there is still little evidence to back it up. Compare them to KTM in the same time period. KTM decided to go racing and have won world championships in almost every dscipline they have attempted in the last 5 years. They have built a 250 GP bike from the ground up (and one that uses a completely different engine design to every other 250GP manufacturer), and that is now amongst the top runners in the world every weekend and a proven GP winner. Aprilia did the same in 1980 when they took the plunge into 250GP racing. Even the ludicrously ambitious Motocysz has grand plans for MotoGP. Buell in the same time frame have played around at the fringes of the sport, and built the XBRR specifically for AMA FX racing, then left it to privateers to run in various small scale national series. With no disrespect to Walt and crew, the XBRR has not and is not going to succeed in FX racing. There has been no attempt or even any hint that Buell are looking to enter into world level competition in any discipline so far, so these statements of 'wait 5 years' wear a bit thin after a while. When Buell get another engine I might start believeing the 'just you wait' mantra, but until then it is just not convincing anyone Court. I would love to see Buell in WSB or MotoGP, but frankly I can't see it happening any time soon unless they pull their finger out and can build a competitive bike AND mount nothing less than a full factory effort. Building bikes for privateers will not be an option in world class competition. | ||
| Rocketman |
There is a big difference between "offering up criticism" and irrational, non-stop, ranting against Buells. You are in the latter case. I'm in the latter case? That's your opinion Jack. So it is your wish that this Buell forum, that has over the past eight years manifested into much more than 'just' a Buell forum, become a place where Buells can only be praised? I'll tell you what I am Jack. I'm a motorcycle fanatic, and as such I believe I've been one long enough to be allowed an opinion. The fact I express my opinions here about Buells, and often strongly so, is because the computer age allows us a direct link to those that create the very things I'm fanatical about. So when in my opinion I feel the need to express, for want of a better word, 'the bigger picture' where Buells are concerned, then it seems this is the very place to do so. Right to the heart of the matter. Regarding the XBRR. There are those here, factory personnel and simply fans, who would have us believe the XBRR is in some way doing great things for the world of Buell. I'd translate that to Buell taking liberties with their fans. The XBRR has not lived up to its hype and great expectations, yet whenever one, yes just one XBRR beats a field of Ducati's one would think Buell had built the bloody racer they promised us in the first place. Reality is, one XBRR campaigned in a French, sorry Frog, national series is probably about as low as one could go to show the XBRR as something it is clearly not. That would be 'a competitive race bike'. As fans of any motorcycle marque we can draw our own conclusions as to how good and great the bikes are these manufacturers build and they might race too, but for me I prefer not to have my head in the clouds. In the case of one XBRR winning a race in France, the bigger picture is, that for me is absolutely nothing to write home about. The little picture is, great - well done to the Frogs that campaigned it, but let's not get delusional over it. It has little to do with Buell or Buell racing, and as such it doesn't prove a damn thing! As for the 'Frog' thing. The term is used somewhat affectionately. The 'Frogs' refer to us as 'Roast Boife', and I would not take offense with such. In any case, there have been some real words of hatred written towards the French on BadWeB. Take a look at the pre and post Iraq war threads, where you will find incidentally Rocket defending and praising that wonderful Frog nation. I have a house there for chrisakes! It's along this road...........  Rocket | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"When Buell get another engine I might start believeing the 'just you wait' mantra, but until then it is just not convincing anyone Court. " I 100% agree! It would be a real shame for Buell not to make an attempt with a new modern engine. The rest of the elements are right : A capable chassis that works, is original and can be the Buell's trademark and characteristic. Buell is not Bimota, with no money. Some things in life needs "let's go NOW" attitude. | ||
| Court |
If anyone were listening to the naysayers Erik woulda tossed in the towel with the RS1200 "what the hell is that?" flip-up seat. I stand by it. I've got a damn good track record for being right. I'll be here in 5 years. . . will you? See ya the races. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
Naysayers? You mean somewhat disappointed Buell fans? 4 years 49 weeks 6 days.......... Rocket | ||
| Blake |
"This is the same statement we have heard for a long time now, " I've never ever heard that statement concerning Buells in racing until Court made it here just recently. Sean, You're ignorance is showing. There's been more than one XBRR winning races. | ||
| Madduck |
I am somewhat amused that everyone thinks that Buell has buckets of money. Last year was their first profitable year, thanks mainly to European sales. H-D has buckets of money, but they spend the racing budget on the only real form of racing Harley fans attend. Drag racing is the ticket and they dump buckets on that program, I would bet Buell may as well. Face it guys american motorcycle buyers don't care about road racing. Erik Buell cares about the few who do and I bet its a hell of a battle to "waste" any corporate dollars supporting this effort. The XBRR program may start to change this as a new generation of dealers is taking over and some have been persuaded that regional racing is worth supporting. I know several in the midwest that have taken to it and I believe that group will grow. We are about to find out. | ||
| Rocketman |
Only 1 in France is what I referred to Blake. Fact, not ignorance. Rocket | ||
| Court |
I stand by it.
| ||
| Imonabuss |
Only one winning in France because the next one in France is finishing second! Yoi are such a loser, Rocketman. | ||
| Rocketman |
Only one winning in France because the next one in France is finishing second! .............in a part timers proddy race. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
And don't forget the two XBRR's that are in the UK either, busily gathering dust in Warr's showroom  How's that for confidence in your product? Or obviously they don't think they can win in UK Sound of Thunder with an XBRR? Get out and race it man! (Message edited by trojan on May 29, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>>How's that for confidence in your product? It's totally unrelated and the inference that somehow it is frankly serves no purpose but to evoke argument. There are a host of Buells, including an RR-1000 and RR-1220 and RS1200 sitting in Uke's show room also. Hell, my dealer had a Ducati Super Mono sitting in the showroom that only raced once. Am I to presume, as you would suggest, that the Super Mono is evidence of Ducati's lack of confidence? It's a small argument. . it will likely attract a small crowd. Just 'taint so. | ||
| Rocketman |
But the Super Mono is a work of art too, and is a much proven race winner time and again in the class it was built for, which isn't the most popular of racing disciplines. But Ducati filled that gap too by giving those that wanted, a single cylinder race bike, and very probably the best single cylinder race bike the worlds ever seen. Yes it is a small crowd such an argument would generate, so why do Buell insist on plying their racing reputation on such a crowd drawn from an entirely part time privateer group. Surely Buell, a motorcycle company heading for major involvement in world class racing in many disciplines within the next 4 years 49 weeks and 5 days, should be forging their own path to stardom on the race tracks of the world given the clock's ticking. Come to think of it. You wouldn't be shitting us would ya? Rocket | ||
| M2nc |
What a few antagonist will do to a perfectly good, "At a boy" thread. I have seen my share of nay sayers. You can never change their minds about anything. Should Buell build a racer that out runs everything else on the planet, those same nay sayers will just put it down because of all the money HD has and how they are picking on the little guys. I hope Buell does not follow the same path as everyone else. There are plenty of motorcycles out there that look, sound and act just like everyone else's motorcycle. Buell needs to carve its own path. That is something I like about Ducati, BMW and Triumph. They are holding their own in a sea of "Me Too" by following their own path. | ||
| Trojan |
It's totally unrelated and the inference that somehow it is frankly serves no purpose but to evoke argument. My point was that, if the UK's largest H-D dealer isn't willing to race the only two XBRR's in the country then what hope does anyone else have? Warr's are the only people who have the team, the experience and the bikes to make an impact in UK road racing with a Buell, even if it is only in Club Racing's Sound of Thunder series. Why is it that Buell UK are not willing to promote and finance this bike to race in the UK? In fact Buell UK are not willing to promote ar finance ANY racing activity (I know because I have tried to persuade them for years, and have quite frankly now given up with them). I have every respect and support for the US dealers and privateers that want to run XBRR's in US racing, but if Buell want to be seen as a global player (and we keep hearing how important the European market is to them) then they have to race on a global basis. Most race fans in the UK are not even aware of the existence of the XBRR, and those that are only know what they read in the press (which by large has been less than complimentary). The Ducati Supermono is a proven winner, and has every right to be displayed as an icon in the same way that other people display winning RC30/RC45 Hondas, OWO1 Yamahas etc. The XBRR is hardly in the same bracket and hasn't actually achieved anything of note yet, so keeping them just for display purposes smacks more than a little of self indulgence. These are race bikes and should be raced. If Warrs don't want to race them then sell them to someone who does. I am not being a naysayer, and am the first to congratulate and appreciate Buell racing success, but I and millions of other motorcycle fans around the world will take a bit more convincing yet that Buell is ready to take on the world in racing given the current evidence. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well I'm sorry but I just can't help my sarcasm when a Buell wins a lowly national race series no one outside of the said country has heard of, then the marque(s) the Buell beat are held up as trophies. At best it represents the good efforts of a racing team running a Buell in a minor race series in France. At worst it is poor form for those who should know better than to use these minor race series accomplishments to tout the Buell XBRR as a successful racing Buell when the real truth is far from that. Basically, the XBRR has been a huge let down to the Buell community. The glorification by some of the XBRR's success in the hands of a small privateer team in some quiet corner of France, in an effort to say "we told you it was a winner" disgusts me. Rocket | ||
| Court |
Huh? Don't forget to orient the heat shield toward earth on your re-entry....space can be a lonely place. Matt: Right you are about Buell needing to do a better job of promoting European Racing. I suspect it will happen. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
I'd wager my house that no more than 3% of 100.000 Buell owners past and present have even heard of a XBRR. Make that about .000001% have ever seen one race. That's what I'd call a lonely place. Buell should step up and be counted. Or should that be in your immortal words "put up or shut up"? Rocket | ||
| Anonymous |
Some people bet their houses awfully thoughtlessly. (Of course, this may also be true of other of their opinions as well) Some math: More than 100,000 Buells sold. Being generous, assume 5 owners per bike, or 500,000 Buell owners total. 3 percent of Buell owners would be 15,000; given the dozens of stories in the motorcycle press on the RR, the RR coverage in Fuell magazine (free subscriptions, remember) and just the readership on this forum, I think we can assume that far more than that have heard of XBRRs. As for the .000001 percent (1 out of 100 million) having seen them race, that would amount to less than 1/100 of a Buell owner. Given that the Buell pits at many of the AMA FX races were visited by hundreds of Buell owners, we absolutely know that isn't true. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Blake, can you put a negative star award device out here? Or how about a little Pacman that eats away at the handle of nasty trolls each time we vote against them, and when their name is gone they lose their posting rights?! | ||
| Trojan |
Given that the Buell pits at many of the AMA FX races were visited by hundreds of Buell owners, we absolutely know that isn't true. AMA FX is an extremely small fish in World motorcycling terms, and the rules are an anachronism that are not shared by any other race series in any other country as far as I know. How many people outside of the USA have actually even heard an XBRR run, let alone seen one race? Not many at all unfortunately, and that should be a priority for Buell in the few years if they want to be considered as major players in the world race scene and world marketplace. Blake, can you put a negative star award device out here? Or how about a little Pacman that eats away at the handle of nasty trolls each time we vote against them, and when their name is gone they lose their posting rights?! How democratic....So those that disagree with the company line shall be 'weeded out' to preserve the illusion of the emperors new clothes? I thought this was an open forum? |
