| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
Sounds to me that the Buell rider beat the Duc rider. The Buell did nothing,the duc did nothing. The combination of the two (rider and bike) on that given day,that given time prevailed. It takes a rider to make the bike look good. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I don't think anyone here is whining. I, too think it's funny (stupid) that when Buell wins a race, most have to compare it to a "WSB" prep'd Ducati, ridden by a "great rider". While the Buell is not a factory bike and is ridden by your everyday Joe Blow. Please. I think Dana sums it up better than any of you. And take it one step further, it takes a crappy rider to make a great bike look like a slow piece of shit. If you like Buell, great. If you don't great. And a few more races in, those Ducs will beat the Buell. And visa-versa. | ||
| Imonabuss |
This thread did not start out with a posting saying "the XBRR is better". It started with a factual post that an XBRR won a race. The trolls took it downhill from there. Tolls suck, and who they are is obvious. That's all this thread has proven. Oh, yeah, and that an XBRR beat the whole field of twins at a race in France. Cool showing for the French team. Bad showing for the trolls. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Oh sorry for my spelling mistake. It should read "TRolls suck." Just to be clear. | ||
| Bigblock |
well, actually, tolls suck too! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
This is a BUELL forum. It is normal for people to be exhited when an XBRR beats any Ducati, on any race around the world! Of course the rider has everything to do with it. I am sure Rossi on the XBRR would beat the current FX IL600cc riders any time. It is also normal for some of us to bealive that the XBRR is better (for a Buell rider, Ducati riders think otherwise) than the 999/1098. But, Crusty said: Personally, I would have preferred the Headline, "Buell beats Italian twin with Rube Goldberg inspired and unnecessarily complicated valve actuation system". I do not think pushrod systems are in any way better than DOHC systems. And definately Desmo is NOT unnecessarily complicated......Look at Motogp... If the XBRR makes good power, it is because it has a big displacement advantage over the other bikes, not thanks to its ancient, pushrod driven, and sometimes unreliable engine. I hope the XBRR will be given the chance to show its chassis and centre of gravity superiority with a modern designed, lighter engine. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well, I understand why you would feel that way, but you should know that Saab's are built in Trollhattan by Trolls, and as a Saab Specialist I am officially an overseas Troll and therefore allowed to Troll. What's your excuse?  Rocket | ||
| Elvis |
Let's face it, Buell is not Ducati. Buell XB's are not Ducati 1098s. Buell is scrapping and scraping to even get a foothold in racing while Ducati pretty much owns racing and has for as long as I've been watching. 5 Years ago, any logical, rational person would have said no motorcycle with a Harley based push-rod motor will ever be competitive with Ducati's top models. . . on any race-track . . . with any riders . . . under any circumstances. Over the past five years, we've seen Buells make steady progress in many different racing classes. They are currently racing in more classes, more successfully than I think anyone would have imagined 5 years ago. Will Buell ever be competitive with Ducati at the Superbike level? I think most of us would agree that they'd have to introduce a new engine to do that (obviously since current regulations restrict the displacement to 1000 cc, and it seems pretty obvious that a 1000 cc Buell engine wouldn't have a chance). . . . but bit by bit, step by step, Buell is developing their racing experience and refining their chasis and narrowing the gap between them and Ducati's Goliath. As a Buell fan, I'd be a fool to thump my chest and say: "We're better than Ducati", but as someone who would like to see Buell continue to make progress and become a larger force in racing, I have to love the results we are seeing here and in other classes. Finding reasons that Ducati is better than Buell isn't really a tough task. . . . but this particular result is one more reason for Buell fans to celebrate and for non-biased racing fans to see that things are just a little more interesting now than they were several years ago. The only people who won't be pleased with results like this are those small handful of people who have devoted a lot of their time over the last few years (for some odd reason) to bad-mouthing Buells. (Message edited by elvis on April 08, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
This thread is a frigg'n Joke. | ||
| Rocketman |
The only people who won't be pleased with results like this are those small handful of people who have devoted a lot of their time over the last few years (for some odd reason) to bad-mouthing Buells. I'd prefer to speak for myself, so I will. I don't suppose I'm alone in wanting Buell to quit putting a toe in the water. If Buell are gonna go racing, then jump in at the deep end if they want my true support. The last few years you speak of, I've got sick of hearing from the anonymous we should expect great things year in year out. 50 odd XBRR's do not interest me in the slightest. Racing in the cheap seats; well they shouldn't be for a motorcycle company of Buells stature. My support is not in one bit pricked up by some French national series where I can't even pronounce the name of the circuit, let alone the riders. Hell, Buell couldn't even get behind the efforts of a serious British attempt to race in a prestigious series, so why should I blow Buells trumpet if they won't blow their own. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on April 08, 2007) | ||
| Elvis |
Rocket, You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but let's be realistic for a moment: Racing in the cheap seats; well they shouldn't be for a motorcycle company of Buells stature. Buell's stature? How many motorcycle companies can you name that are younger or smaller than Buell? How are those companies racing programs doing? Let's forget about younger and smaller and look at two great motorcycle companies: Triumph and BMW. Most of us would agree that Triumph and BMW are great Moco's with great bikes. Both of those companies do some racing, but are either of their racing programs much more impressive than Buell's (particularly when you weight their "stature" against Buell's)? Based on general industry standards and realistic expectations, Buell's racing program is larger and more successful than would be expected from a company of their size and experience. The fact that a company as small as Buell with the bikes and technology they have can get on any race-track anywhere with Ducati is pretty amazing. People on these boards get excited and may have unrealistic hopes from time to time. Wouldn't you expect that from a group of fans and enthusiasts? If you want to withhold support until they're more competitive, fine, that's fair. I would think "not offering support" would involve waiting until they've done something before supporting them. But rather than simply withholding support, you seem to want to find fault with the steps they're taking along the path of becoming a larger force in motorcycle racing. But hey. It keeps things interesting. | ||
| M2nc |
Correct me if I am wrong, because I have been wrong before. But the only time a Ducati Superbike and an XBRR met at a race track the XBRR won, right? I heard some whining about a fogged visor, but I think the Buell still got the "W" right? The only time that an Aprilia and an XBRR met at the track, the Buell won that race too right? As a matter of fact can anyone tell me any race where an XBRR has been beaten by another twin? I do not follow racing as close as I should. Thanks | ||
| Thepup |
M2nc,They have raced on the same track the same day and the 999R superbike runs at least 4 seconds faster. | ||
| M2nc |
So they won the race the XBRR was in? | ||
| Thepup |
No they didn't race in the same race,but the Ducati had a 4 second faster lap time on the same track. | ||
| Rocketman |
Post removed in respect for Holger Turni. This is no time for such debates. Terrible news. Just bloody terrible. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on April 08, 2007) | ||
| M2nc |
What is different between the US AMA Ducati Superbike and what is racing in France? I mean a stock 1098 has a twenty horsepower advantage to an XBRR, and if the US AMA teams can get that kind of speed I am sure the french teams can. Of course if its just the riders, then kudos to the Buell team. If you put me on an XBRR in a group of top notch 250GP riders they would hand me my lunch. I still have to ask, has a Ducati twin beat an XBRR in any heads up race to date? | ||
| Jimidan |
There are a lot of factors that determine who wins an endurance race besides which bike has the most HP and is faster (which are much more important in a sprint race). Shucks, I saw Springer on a little green Ninja 650 parallel twin beat lots of bigger and faster bikes (including a Buell ridden by Shawn Higbee), at the MotoST in Daytona. Luck is as big a factor in long races as most others, when you really get down to it. That is taking nothing away from the team that one this French endurance race on the XBRR. It is a major accomplishment to simply finish an endurance race of that length, especially for a Buell. It was a great win! | ||
| Trojan |
What is different between the US AMA Ducati Superbike and what is racing in France? Just about the only thing that is the same is the name on the tank. Why do people assume that just because it is a 999 Ducati then it must be 'Superbike spec', coz it just ain't true. The bikes that raced in the AMA, British Superbike and WSB are the 999 F06, of which there are only a handful in the world (around 10 total). If you want one then prepare to pay around US$400,000 and grovel to the factory for the priviledge. The bikes racing in the Franch series will be based on pretty standard 999R models with some mods to make them raceworthy, and are a world away from the Superbike spec bikes. It just goes to show how successful the Ducati marketing machine is when everyone thinks that all Ducati's are world class race winning material straight out of the box. | ||
| M2nc |
I thought the WSB Ducati was a V-4, is that true? So you start with a stock 999R at $15,000 and then get it race ready, how much $? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
MotoGP is a v4. WSB and when they were in AMA Superbike, are 2 cyl. Stock 999R's are closer to $30,000. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Sounds to me like we Buell fans have finaly hit the nerve on the head of some of the Ducati lovers. Lets put this into perspective. If the Duc had won it would have been a great feat beating the "Racing Buell" but because Buell won, somehow it's like they cheated and don't rate a congradulations. Well Congradulations Buell. Beating a liquid cooled 4 valve techno machine is no small achievement. With a lowly push rod aircooled machine is even more impressive. Fess up people and admit it happened, get on with your life and say well done. Just like most of us do when Ducs have beaten Buells. (Message edited by Thunderbox on April 10, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
Plenty of Ducati likers in this thread have congratulated the Buell racing bike beating the Ducati streetbike. It's a unique achievement. Rocket | ||
| Thunderbox |
Yes Rocketman I agree. You will see an amended post above. Thanks | ||
| Rocketman |
Actually I was being sarcastic, lol. But it was meant as a joke. Rocket | ||
| M2nc |
Thanks for the answers, just one open question, has a Ducati, Aprilia or BMW beaten an XBRR in the same race? Really any twin does not matter the make. We have all seen the XBRR against FX L4 but I have not seen it against other twins. I've seen videos about a guy in a 2000 or so BMW Boxer Cup Bike that he jacked up and has been really competitive though I do not know the series. BMW was using him for their new R1200S promotions. They have videos of him on their web site I think. He is trying to get the R1200R race ready but was working on jacking up the bike so the jugs clear enough to get the necessary lean angles. He was racing in the rain and just wearing everyone else out. (Message edited by M2nc on April 10, 2007) | ||
| Jlnance |
He was racing in the rain I love to watch races in the rain. It's mind blowing. | ||
| Jimidan |
That would be San Jose's Brian Parriott. See it here: http://www.sjbmw.com/gallery.asp?PicCat=SJ%20BMW%2 0Racing | ||
| Blake |
Based on a press release by H-D/Buell... On March 31 and April 1, the first round of the French Pro-Twin championship was fought at an unseasonably cold and wet Ledenon race track in Southern France by the Macadam Moto Team’s Buell XBRR. The XBRR, ridden by Michel Amalric, faced competition against many Ducati motorcycles, as well as a few Suzuki and Honda motorcycles.  Siting/warm-up lap at Ledenon | ||
| Blake |
Sean, What does the "R" in "999R" stand for, and how much does a Ducati 999R complete with racing kit cost? So a more accurate description would be, borrowing from yours above, as follows: Plenty of Ducati admirers in this thread have congratulated the $30K Buell racing bike beating the $30K Ducati 999R race-kitted streetbikes and the new $20K 170 HP 1098S . It's a laudable achievement, but not so unique as this is the third such occurrence, at least respecting the 999R. |
