| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Of course in some folks' views, the Yamaha pre-Rossi was crap. It could never be that the M1 was a very competitive machine; no it has to have been crap until almighty Rossi touched it. Or is it still crap today too, and it is just the divine hand of Rossi that makes it work? Anyone should be able to win on the Repsol Hondas, since like Rossi they are endowed with almighty supremacy? Wow, now Nicky Hayden was the #1 rider for Repsol all four years? Sure is strange how it took his team mate taking him out in order to gift the championship lead to Rossi. Absent that gift, the Kentucky Kid would still be leading the championship. He may still win it yet. A Hayden 1st, Rossi 3rd or worse at Valencia is certainly not anything beyond the rhealm of possibility, as last years results clearly indicate. (Message edited by blake on October 23, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
The Kawasaki's and Suzukis sure did improve more, on account of they were by far the slowest factory bikes on the grid. Talk about grasping at straws. | ||
| Trojan |
Sure is strange how it took his team mate taking him out in order to gift the championship lead to Rossi. That would be true if it weren't for the inconvenient fact that Rossi was taken out by Elias, then had tyres disintegrate TWICE and a mechanical failure to hinder his championship. Actually pre-Rossi, the Yamaha was crap. Or have I missed a few victories by other Yamaha riders along the way? Hayden hasn't beent henumber one rider at Honda for 4 years. Why would he be when Rossi was his team mate for 2 of them  He has though been a Repsol rider for 4 years and has had plenty of time to learn circuits, get to know the bike etc etc etc. What he hasn't yet learned is how to win consistently, week in and week out. That is why he is not as good as Rossi nor ever will be. If Hayden has some more luck on his side this weekend he may win the title. I would eat by own feet if he ever manages to repeat it even once, never mind 7 times like a certain other rider. | ||
| Eboos |
"Here ya go Blake.............. BOLLOCK BULLOCK Rocket" And so there is no confusion...  BUTTOCKS | ||
| Blake |
I see, so now Hayden is not worthy since he is unlikely to repeat 7 times. More grasping at straws methinks. It couldn't possibly be that Rossi ruined his tires by pushing too hard and so bears full responsibility for those incidents. No, it couldn't possibly be as he is the almighty blessed one of MotoGP. | ||
| Trojan |
No Blake, Hayden isn't worthy because he can't win races regularly and consistently. The fact that he won't win 7 titles is academic, as he still hasn't won his first. Rossi is consistently easier on tyres than almost any other rider, in addition to being the best there is at riding on worn tyres, so I doubt that it was his riding that ruined the tyres twice in a season. You are right in your final point though..He is the almighty and blessed one when it comes to MotoGP, and certainly the best rider of his generation if not the best ever (IMHO Mike Hailwood by the way P.S. I think we should adjourn this argument until next Monday (Message edited by trojan on October 23, 2006) | ||
| Jackbequick |
Dani's interview does bear the marks of a gentleman, it gives me a new insight and more respect for him. But I am just hoping that, be it bad luck, coincidence, or evil intent, Pedrosa does not knock *anybody* down next Sunday. Can you imagine what that dog fight could have looked like last week if both Hayden and Pedrosa had both stayed up on two wheels? That is what I want to see in the finale. Jack | ||
| Heads |
Trojan,first thing Rossi said to jeremy burgess when he moved to yamaha... JB make this yamaha handle,ride like the honda. I think jeremy came through with that request. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan,first thing Rossi said to jeremy burgess when he moved to yamaha... JB make this yamaha handle,ride like the honda. I think jeremy came through with that request Actually the first thing that Rossi said was: 'Ciao Jeremy ya ole B'stard. Wota ya doin' ere? Makea de Yamaha go fasta dan da b'stard 'Onda an' I will keeess you' Funnily enough though, nobody else seems to be able to go as fast on it as Rossi does.... | ||
| Blake |
So now we are back to "if Hayden wins the championship, he doesn't deserve it." Interesting take on that issue. I couldn't disagree more strongly. A championship is won based upon a number of factors including rider, machine, team, luck. That Rossi is the faster rider With all else being equal is not in dispute. That the faster rider will/should always be champion is incorrect. Though he is gentle on tires, Rossi was inexplicably cursed with tire failures while other racers who are more harsh on their tires somehow avoided that fate? Dude. (Message edited by Blake on October 24, 2006) | ||
| Trojan |
Though he is gentle on tires, Rossi was inexplicably cursed with tire failures while other racers who are more harsh on their tires somehow avoided that fate? Obviously a conspiracy by Honda and Nicky Hayden's dad to sabotage Rossi's tyres so that Nicky woud inherit the title. Little did they know of the secret agreement between Rossi and Pedrosa that they would scuttle Nicky to stop the pesky American taking the title away from Europe. Nor did they figure for the other conspiracy by 8 other riders to keep Nicky in 9th place in the Czech Republic, and so cruelly rob him of his own title that was his and his alone all year  You just can't trust a European | ||
| Blake |
 The Europeans better wise up quick. If Nicky don't get his way, we are set to invade. Hey, how about that infallible Rossi and crew, who were unable to discern the difference between a chunked front and rear tire? What a genius for communicating the feedback of the motorcycle. Speaking of deserving champions, how about that Sebastian Charpentier? Poor Kevin Curtain eh? | ||
| Trojan |
Speaking of deserving champions, how about that Sebastian Charpentier? Poor Kevin Curtain eh? It's about time we saw Charpentier on a Superbike/MotoGP bike. To come back froma broken pelvis to win the championship is amazing  (Nice crash helmet design too )  | ||
| Blake |
I think he'd do well in SBK. Was surprised he wasn't tapped after winning the championship so dominantly last year. I gues that the talent pool is just so packed these days in WSB. Add to that AMA SBK and BSB and the potential rostrum becomes bewildering. What we need is some kind of Superbike league system where after the first half of the season or so the top dozen from each league advance to a true world championship. Three leagues?... The Euros, the Eastern Americas/British/Irish/S. Africa, and the Oceana/Western Americas? Or the Euros, the Americas, and the Asia/Africa/Oceanas. If only all the sanctioning organizations could get together and agree on tech specs and tires. It used to be so cool to have the AMA boys dicing it up with the WSB racers at Laguna Seca. I'd sure enjoy a lengthened racing season with more races.  | ||
| Jaimec |
On his good days, Edwards is as fast as Rossi. Remember last year's Laguna Seca, and this year before he threw it away feet from the finish line... | ||
| Rocketman |
I'd just like to point out that everything I've said in this thread by way of attempting to explain the possibilities of Pedrosa's actions, well it seems I was right according to the man himself. Pedrosa clearly explained he had worked out a plan to get him a shot at the championship. He admitted he was racing, and he lost the front end, though I don't believe the coming in too hot story. The move was entirely intentional and he was going for the overtake. I also believe he was unlucky not to get past as I'm convinced watching the replays over and over that there's a slight imperfection on the track surface that caused the front to go away from him. Either way, I'm a genius and you all owe me a beer. Troy Freakin Fra.......... | ||
| Blake |
You are wrong. Pedrosa cooked in way too hot, hit the curb and went down taking out his team mate and championship leader Nicky Hayden on just the fifth lap of the race. It's easy to see. In such a situation, the rider's intent is of no import. A stupid idiotic arrogant move is still a stupid idiotic arrogant move no matter the intent; in fact the selfish intent makes it even worse in my view and in the view of most who have any kind of objectivity on the issue.
A staunch Hayden fan and MotoGP Journalist's view of the incident. (link provided by Skully) (Message edited by skully on October 25, 2006) | ||
| Jackbequick |
Good link Blake, thanks. CJ's analysis of the season and current situation is excellent. And the details of the history behind it are very insightful. He does not let his desire to see Hayden win overcome his journalistic objectivity. If someone can debate CJ's analysis in a constructive tone and with credible facts and statements, I'd love to read that too. A race fan is a race fan and they can't be denied the right to make any wild or exaggerated statements they want to make in support of their heros. But some of the claims made in the last two weeks deny clearly evident proof and are simply laughable. I'm of a more analytical and logical mind and likely to select my favorites along other than Nationalistic lines. I'd love to see an American MotoGP Champion, I'd also love to see sustained, clearly superior, performance honored. In the end I'll root for a win by the more deserving rider before I root for or against an American, Italian, or Spaniard. That said, I'd just like to see the season end with a clean victory decided without any further controversy. Heaven forbid that MotoGP racing could turn into a back stabbing, dirty tactics, team racing circus like NASCAR has evolved (devolved?)to. I don't even watch that crap any more. Jack (Message edited by skully on October 25, 2006) | ||
| Blublak |
Hey Blake.. A while back I pined for a new race series.. MROCThe Motorcycle Race Of Champions.. I imagined it to go something like this; The top 5 riders/teams from each series currently running - MotoGP, AMA, Europe, Asia, Australia etc. would be invited. Each manufacture would choose a machine of their own (XBRR, CBR1000RR, 999R, K1200R/S etc.) and a track they would like to be featured on. Each race (number of races determined by number of name plates being represented overall) would take place featuring a single brand offering identical machines, with VERY limited modification permitted for each rider. The bikes would be autographed and sold at a later date - proceeds to charity maybe? Tracks could be anywhere in the world, with say BMW running at the Nurbergring, Buell running at Mid Ohio, Honda at Donning ton, Ducati at Imola.. etc. That way, you don't have tracks that are on any single riders regular series more then once and would keep any series riders from having an overall advantage. Of course, there are a few other details to work out, but wouldn't it be great to see such a thing? The best riders, going from bike to bike, track to track, dicing it up for the title of Champion of Champions? Ok, dreaming off.. Unless some billionaire wants to discuss it in detail and we can actually try to get such a thing off the ground.. hehehehehe.. | ||
| Jaimec |
BMW's "Battle of the Legends" came closest to this. They all rode identically prepared BMW Boxers at various venues around the world. People like Jay Springsteen, Reg Pridmore, Chris Carr, etc. It was some of the most exciting racing I've ever seen! | ||
| Rocketman |
The proof for me is in the replay. Pedrosa didn't loose the front on the kerb. He'd already lost it before his front touched the kerb. Whatever. He was racing and had a right to challenge is my view. Whether or not he can admit to his manoeuvre being an overtake I don't know, but it certainly looked like a great chance not to be missed. Pedrosa will be racing Moto GP 2008. I doubt Hayden will. Further, the likelihood of Hayden beating Rossi to the title this season was getting pretty slim. Because of such why would Honda want to curtail Pedrosa's also slim chance at the title too by issuing team orders? Better two dogs in the fight. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
By Estoril, Pedrosa had exactly TWO chances: Slim, and None! And thanks to his actions, Nicky is now in the same boat. But it's good to see Puig has at least one supporter in BadWeb. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"But it's good to see Puig has at least one supporter in BadWeb." Maybe there is only one in the world? Not even Pedrosa saw the accident the way Puig saw it. Now if Sean can just get Pedrosa to revise his description of what happened... Jack | ||
| Daves |
what time is the race on Sunday? | ||
| Macbuell |
Rocket, everyone with half a brain has admitted that Pedrosa screwed up. Even Pedrosa. I'm not sure why you can't see that but it seams to me like you have something against Hayden. | ||
| Chadhargis |
2:30 central I believe. | ||
| Blake |
Hayden is signed for two more years in MotoGP with HRC. Interesting view you have there brick boy. Care to place a wager on it? What you imagine is a "bump" is actually Pedro's front end unloading as it loses grip wither through too much braking/lean angle or from bike lifting as the left side fairing contacts the curb. You are not seeing the perspective correctly in the video view where the camera is looking straight down the main straight. Pedro never made anywhere close to even with Hayden before taking him out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIEUnSMebxw&mode=related&search=  One frame at a time...                 Here's where Pedro goes down. His front axle is not yet even with Hayden's rear axle. Pedro is going too fast, even after the bike goes down it continues to move forward faster than Hayden's machine.                              Here's where Pedro goes down. His front axle is not yet even with Hayden's rear axle. Pedro is going too fast, even after the bike goes down it continues to move forward faster than Hayden's machine.    (Message edited by Blake on October 25, 2006) | ||
| Skully |
Because of such why would Honda want to curtail Pedrosa's also slim chance at the title too by issuing team orders? Better two dogs in the fight. This very attitude may have prevented Honda from having ANY chance at the title. How intelligent is that? Sean - just how much on-track, actual racing experience do you have? | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, very smart freeze framing. Now please do the same with the link in your above post where the camera is looking across the corner. Then tell me it's an optical illusion that they were not side by side. Some of you Americans are getting way bent out of shape because your home boy rider couldn't cut the mustard in the end. Face it. Right now he's your only dog in the Moto GP fight, and this season is only due to exceptionally good luck which has finally run out. No matter that you guys see Pedrosa as anything but great as he is, you're off your heads. He is far far far ahead of Hayden when it comes down to it. I should know as I've had very little time on the race circuits but my alter ego Troy................. well that's a different kettle of fish as they say in Yorkshire. Hayden I'll wager will not be at HRC for 2008. Just a hunch but certainly one worth betting on. Nothing in racing is water tight. Especially Hayden's contract. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Further, one frame at a time or not, between frames e f and g there's an awful lot of film missing, therefore the freeze frames above are extremely ambiguous. In fact they aren't at all. They're actually clear in that they don't tell the whole story. Freeze the other angle. There's a lot more information to be garnered from that camera. Rocket |
