| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Cause none of the other 16+ competitors wanted to "inherit" the championship lead? What bullocks! And this from someone who runs a race team. I just don't get it. Blake, you miss my point and maybe inherit is too simple a term for it. Nicky is a brilliant rider (he wouldn't work for Repsol Honda if he weren't), rides for the best team in the paddock and has strung together some very impressive results in the early part of the year. However of the other 16+ competitors there were only ever going to 6 or 7 with even a remote chance of the title from the start, and of those how many have the resources of Repsol Honda behind them? If Nicky was not in the top 3 then there really would be something wrong! Like I said, he is a good rider but is he in a better position than any of the top riders would be given his machine? I very much doubt it. He led the world championship by a massive margin after Laguna and has let that slip through his fingers. Apart from the debacle at Estoril he unfortunately has nobody to blame but himself. As for him being given all the experimental gear to try, Rossi has been in that position for years with both Honda and then Yamaha. It is a mark of the difference between VR and NH that Rossi dictated the changes made to the bike and not the other way round. Do you think for a moment that Rossi would have put up with a dodgy clutch for 4 races on the trot? He would have made sure that he got the best and most reliable equipment available, period. Rossi is also the master at riding around problems and getting the very best out of what he has to work with. To illustrate the point, just compare his results with every other Yamaha rider since he joined them. And this from someone who runs a race team. I just don't get it. It is preceisely because I run a race team and have been in a similar, if slightly less lofty position, that I can say he has inherited it, and if I was in the same position again I would grab it with both hands while it lasted  We won a championship in 2003 on a pretty stock XB9/12, beating (amongst others) an Aprilia RSV1000 and an ex-superbike Ducati 998 in the process. We did so by scoring solid reliable points, turning up at every single round and not falling off, exactly the same way that Nicky has scored points this year. I absolutely know that we were incredibly lucky to do this and am honest enough to know that we didn't have the fastest bike out there, or even the fastest rider, not by a long chalk. At the end of the year the only thing that will go into the record books is who won, not how they won it, so it is pretty academic really, but I just think that Rossi is the better rider and more desrving of the win. What annoys me at the moment is that everyone is saying that Nicky has had the title taken away by Pedrosa's rush of blood to the head at Estoril, but conveniently forgets the run of luck that has favoured Hayden most of the year. You do tend to make a lot of your own luck in racing, but some is just pure chance. Nicky has been lucky to avoid being taken out by other peoples misfortune all year up till Portugal. He was extremely lucky to win in Holland when Edwards crashed at the last corner. He managed to avoid the massive pile up that claimed most of the top guys at Valencia, and hasn't suffered from a mechanical or tyre failure all year. Those are factors that he had little or no control over and the dice ran his way. Now, in a straight fight to the finish we'll see who deserves to win the title. | ||
| Bads1 |
Like I said Matt its a pissing match of your opininions and everyone elses here. They vary....best to let it play out and see the end result. | ||
| Trojan |
Like I said Matt its a pissing match of your opininions and everyone elses here. They vary....best to let it play out and see the end result. You are of course absolutely right, but it would be no fun of we all just waited to see who won would it  Pissing into the wind can be fun. It is the only way to guarantee that you get your own back | ||
| Davegess |
One reason why I want to see Nicky win it is to see Val pushed. He may be the best ever BUT I want to see how far he can go. He needs someone to be Sheene to his Roberts, or Ago to his Hailwood. Being the best can only truly be judged when the best finishes second sometimes. Sort of like the fighter Ali, if he hadn't been beaten and then come back to win again we would not have known how good he was. | ||
| Eboos |
"Cause none of the other 16+ competitors wanted to "inherit" the championship lead? What bullocks!" It looks like our British friends are having an influence on Blake. | ||
| Trojan |
I knew if we kept at him long enough Repeat after me...Bollocks, not bullocks, Bollocks, not bullocks........ | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake, think Sex Pistol, not Sandra!  Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Here ya go Blake..............  BOLLOCK  BULLOCK Rocket | ||
| Bads1 |
I'd like see Nicky do it but thats because I'm ready and over due to see someone else other then Rossi. Nothing against Rossi,he's the Michael Jordan of GP racing but I would just like to see change. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ever wonder what happens when you drink too much Sangria? http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Oct/061019a.htm | ||
| Davegess |
Here is a quote from a man who knows more about racing than everyone on this board combined. www.superbikeplanet has a quote about the move from a fellow who has forgotten more about racing than anyone on this board knows. Gary Nixon thinks it was pretty stupid. I can't argue with that. | ||
| Bads1 |
Of Coarse Pedrosa's Manager is going to say that for a interview. Do you think he'd say Dani F@#%@! Up and why. I'd like to know what Honda's thoughts are. | ||
| Aussie_buell |
There are clearly Rossi fans, Hayden fans and Dani fans, that is where all the points of views are coming from. Some one says what does it take to prove yor a champion - well its the same as Rossi, people said if rossi wins back to back Honda to Yamaha he is a true champion, then they say if he winds two in a row he is a champion, now they are saying if he wins this year also he is a champion. Clearly I am a Rossi fan. But there is champions and there is champions, Creville, Roberts Jnr, they won by default really. remember Doohan, thats a champion, Rossi - a champion, interesting side fact is that Doohan won 5 times champion, he could have had eight really, 4th to Schwanz in 93, 2nd to Rainey 92, 2nd to Rainey 91 and 3rd to Rainey 90. Those are champion results I personally think it would be a whole different season, for Rossi included, if Caparossi was fit all year. I dont want to bag anymore riders but i seriously think that the guys up front on the Honda's would not be there if they were on another brand. Geez there musnt be much more that can be said here, been a popular thread though.  | ||
| Blake |
Bollocks! There. Hey Matt, You still seem to be confusing "faster rider" with "championship winner." He who wins the championship deserves it, period. Edwards threw it away trying to win, that was no great bit of luck for Nicky. He had the race in the bag and Colin threw all caution to the wind with predictable consequences. It really is hilarious how you want to twist every incident involving Nicky against him. I'm a HUGE Rossi fan. I don't buy that the Repsol team or machines are that much superior to the Yamaha's. That is pure speculation. Tanlging with other riders is part of the championship,as is luck as is the machine, as is the team. But with one race to go, being taken out of the championship lead by your team mate is friggin' ridiculous. | ||
| Aussie_buell |
I dont know about the Honda not being superior. To me its clear. But as i noticed this thread slipping further and further down the board and hoping it would leave the front page for good, up it pops to the top again SO I wanted to comment on Edwards holding up the other riders You've got to be kidding havent you. Ok his elbows are often out wide but i dont think he was holding anyone up. that was clear when he was overtaken and he couldnt catch the gap, so he mustnt have really been having any impact. I think the riders were happy to lay low for a few laps after all the early lap OFFS. | ||
| Blake |
I agree. | ||
| Blake |
Except for the superior Honda theory. I don't buy that at all. | ||
| Aussie_buell |
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| Rocketman |
Interesting to note re Honda v Yamaha. James Ellison on the Tech 3 Yamaha has struggled all season with chatter, vibration and god knows what. And the Dunlops have not worked out at all for him (so we are told). Ellison had the fastest top speed of the race, hitting 325kph down the straight, but still came home last. Oh no. Wait a minute. There was an Ilmor behind him, lol. Either way, it says a lot for the Yamaha's handling when besides Rossi, Edwards is the only rider to garner some success. But not that much really. Rocket | ||
| Glitch |
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=hayden+pedrosa | ||
| Velofellow |
All year long the Hondas and often the Ducs have posted higher top speeds than Rossi's Yamaha. Honda IS the best engine builder, just ask Kenny. Or wait until next year... KR JR has been a lot closer to the front - and very open and candid with his comments - than earlier in the season. I'd also like to point out that Rossi DNFed at Seca when the front tire put a big chunk of tread into his radiator. That one is Michelin's fault, and they admitted it. And finally, I have followed GP closely since the 1960's, and have attended every US round. Once Rainey got hurt the level of competition dropped way off. Doohan's championships were just not worth as much. Second is first loser! I would sure like to see another American champion, but Rossi just might be the best rider and racer ever. You have to admit, MotoGP is getting more entertaining all the time! (Message edited by velofellow on October 20, 2006) | ||
| Rocketman |
Once Rainey got hurt the level of competition dropped way off. Doohan's championships were just not worth as much. Couldn't agree more. Same deal with Schumacher in F1, but let's not go there in this wonderfully alive thread. Pedrosa for world champ 07 anyone? Rocket | ||
| Moboy516 |
} You have to admit, MotoGP is getting more entertaining all the time! I have never watched racing as exciting as this year's MotoGP world championship. The last two laps at Estoril were phenomenal. Pedrosa for world champ 07 anyone? I would find it hard to disagree. Dani is most likely the HRC goldenboy, not Hayden. Dani has ridden extremely fast this year and I think might be the only rider to have comparable talent to Rossi's. Doesn't mean I am a Pedrosa fan, but that little guy is blazing fast. | ||
| Heads |
yes quiet true would have been good to see a bit more competion for Doohan. probably wouldnt have one his titles by a mile, probably more like half a mile. | ||
| Trojan |
Hey Matt, You still seem to be confusing "faster rider" with "championship winner." He who wins the championship deserves it, period. Edwards threw it away trying to win, that was no great bit of luck for Nicky. He had the race in the bag and Colin threw all caution to the wind with predictable consequences. It really is hilarious how you want to twist every incident involving Nicky against him. I don't dislike Hayden, nor am I trying to twist events against him. If anything the opposite is happening on this board simply because Nicky is American. My point was the run of luck that Nicky has enjoyed this year. On the last lap in Holland Edwards crashed and Hayden didn't, although it was luck rather than judgement that he stayed on himself ( and he is the first to admit that). Remember Alex Criville? He was a good rider and won a world championship for Honda after Doohan retired. He was also given the task of developing the bike. His development skills were not up to the task and Honda lost direction until Rossi arrived and put them straight. The same thing has happened now that Nicky is the No 1 guy at the big H. For them to be throwing new parts on the bike at pretty much every race (and who knows how many parts at test sessions!) appears to me that they have no idea of the direction to take any more. This is shown by the fact that Hayden is regularly beaten by other Honda riders on 'inferior' machines. 'Faster riders' win championships, and whilst the title sometimes goes to people who aren't the best it is not very often. Those that do win titles without winning races like this tend to win only one championship and are quickly forgotten. Alex who? | ||
| Heads |
Jeremy Burgess has a big part to play in that Trojan....his record speaks for itself. | ||
| Trojan |
Jeremy Burgess does indeed have a big role to play. However he can only act on what the rider gives in feedback and what he gets from datalogging. Burgess was working at Honda during Criville's tenure as well, and was Criville's crew chief at one point I beleive. The big improvements came on the bike when Burgess and Rossi started working together, not whilst Criville was in the hot seat. Those who have worked with Jeremy McWilliams will know what a huge difference a good test rider, and one that can translate what is happening on the bike to the technicians, can make to a motorcycle's progress. Honda obviously have some of the sharpest brains in the motorcycle industry working on their GP bikes, but without good rider feedback they are working in the dark (or at least twilight!) even with modern telemetry. Rossi has the ability not only to gather this information and get it across to the techs better than most riders, but also to have the strength in the team to insist on what HE wants rather than the team bosses. Look at the situation at Yamaha this year with their frames. Rossi was the driving force behind going back to the 2005 geometry despite the factory not wanting to. If it came down to two equally fast riders fighting for a championship it is this ability that will ultimately give him the advantage. | ||
| Blake |
I got it, so now you are saying that Nicky Hayden is some kind of dope who is unable to provide good feedback. Other racers on Hondas regularly beat him, and he hasn't won any races this year. That sure is an interesting view of Nicky Hayden, potentail 2006 MotoGP champion. Not sure it has any basis in reality though. | ||
| Blake |
Dani shows some real class... http://www.motogp.com/en/motogp/motogp_news.htm?menu=news&news_id=18176&champion ship_id=3§ion=1 The motogo site is slow and clunky, let the right-hand panel load; it displays a good interview with Dani Pedrosa just released today. I cannot cut and paste even an excerpt here since it is embedded within a flash media panel.  (Message edited by Blake on October 23, 2006) | ||
| Trojan |
I got it, so now you are saying that Nicky Hayden is some kind of dope who is unable to provide good feedback. Other racers on Hondas regularly beat him, and he hasn't won any races this year. That sure is an interesting view of Nicky Hayden, potentail 2006 MotoGP champion. Not sure it has any basis in reality though. How on earth do you reach that conclusion form my post? What I said was that Nicky Hayden is not as good as Rossi when it comes to developing the bike. If he was then the Honda would be unbeatable (pretty much as it was when Rossi rode it actually). The Honda was unbeatable 2 years ago and hasn't made any huge improvements since compared to the other bikes in the GP paddock. Don't beleive me? compare relative lap times for all the teams from the last couple of years. Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and of course KR have all mde bigger relative improvements than Honda over the same period. Like it or not Blake, It is a fact that other Honda riders do regularly beat Hayden ( or don't satellite teams count?), and in 4 years in the top job he has won just a handful of races compared to the other Honda riders. I don't care what nationality any of the riders are (lets face it, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the next British MotoGP champion), so haven't got any jingoistic reasons to dislike any of the riders. |
