| Author | Message | ||
     Evilphoton |
I recently picked up an '06. 60k miles, leaking fork seals, been sitting for 4 years, engine sounds like a can of rocks in a paint shaker. so, got a take-out engine from ebay and have the original engine out currently. switching things over and cleaning. the inside of the frame and fan are covered in oil so that all has to go. i'm going to test the sensors before it goes back in since step 1 is "rotate the engine" the original engine has been apart (dinged allen bolts, rtv oozing out of engine cases...), so who knows what's going on in there. I think PO was chasing it as an oil pressure problem, but it sounds the same whether it actually has oil in it or not (i wouldn't normally do destructive testing, but why not in this case). I haven't rebuilt a motorcycle engine before so i'll use this one as bait. naturally i printed out the FSM on a printer at work. I've always admired Buell motorcycles. I rode an xb9 at texas motor speedway when harley was doing their 100th anniversary tour and rode a couple tube-frame models either before or later, but i already had a sportster and didn't really want another Milwaukee vibrator - the xb is a completely different. since i've already bought what I need (haha), St. Paul H-D is buying up parts and re-selling them for their original OEM prices. their website kept coming up in parts searches, but i thought it was either ancient and not updated (where can you find unobtanium except ebay?) but when i talked to the parts guy, it's legit. original belt $180, clutch cable $55, etc. so with the help of this dealer and ebay, it'll be back on the road. my other bike is a 2000 honda vfr (Message edited by evilphoton on December 23, 2019) | ||
| Evilphoton |
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| Tootal |
Great project! Looking forward to what you find. It's always fun troubleshooting something as long as you finally find the problem...and there's not more than one! | ||
| Mnrider |
Great that you found a used engine.I'm sure you'll have it up and running soon. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Be sure and inspect the inside of the swingarm (oil tank) for engine debris and clean if necessary before you put it back together. DAMHIK | ||
| Pushr0d |
Be especially careful when you insert the pcv's into their grommets (you might want to use new ones), and how the vent pipes are fixed to them. I mentioned in another thread that my 'new' '08 had a mess of oil on the whole front of the engine. I figured I'd have to rotate the engine to replace the front pcv grommet, but eventually discovered that the oil was dripping from the nipple/hose connection. Two small zip-ties applied opposite directions, and leak is gone! | ||
| Evilphoton |
Thank you! Used engine looks good so far but i haven't run it yet. just got exhaust back on and new front and rear isolators. I'll check the swingarm. I was going to take the swingarm off and clean it - i'll specifically look for what you mention. the "intake" to the engine fan is covered in oil so i will clean that out and probably replace the fan with a spal. Someone here did a writeup on how to replace the motor/fan, so i very much appreciate the info on this site already! Have most of you done the pcv modification to change from pulling the air/oil into the throttle body to an external catch/vent? the mod is currently on the bike and I think I'll keep it since the intake is covered in .... oil. just wondering what the consensus is. the sportster air cleaner dumped the breather gasses right into the intake, so even if there is oil that leaks it was easy enough to just wipe it up. this is a different deal the pcv grommets are still pretty snug pushing in the breather, but i may get new ones if i can find them. i dislike using rtv, but i was thinking of putting a bead around the breather and the grommet. i downloaded ecmspy and it's supporting software onto an old laptop. the previous had the usb harness, so if it'll connect that would be super cool. Regarding idle. i see in the TPS reset procedure that you set a hot idle to a little over 1000 rpm, which completely makes sense. what is the story when the engine is cold? do you have to just blip/hold the throttle until it warms or can it enrichen itself based on engine temp? I'm not the type to let an engine idle up to temp, i just start and drive/ride off under light throttle. Another question, i can't quite tell from the wiring diagram how the headlights are wired up. is the intent that one bulb is low beam and the other (or both) makes high beam? Thanks, Alex | ||
| Ourdee |
One is low beam. The other is high beam. Some people modified it to keep low on with the high beam. | ||
| Evilphoton |
thanks. it’ll be a while before i can get there. there are aux lights wired in, but it lived by the beach so lots of salt corrosion, i just took the windscreen off today. HD dealers aren’t my absolute favorite things but it’s been handy with how many Sportster cross-over parts there are and being able to just walk up to the parts counter. i took the oil pump out and apart. the drive gears look good. i read there is a weakness in a couple of those years but haven’t been sure which. they look good. | ||
| Ourdee |
I hate this reply but, The search function at the top of the page should be able to tell you what oil pump gears were suspect. Or some one will be along that knows. | ||
| Evilphoton |
Buell did source parts from everyone!  | ||
| Shoggin |
Not just Buell, you'll find that in every vehicle. It would be prohibitively cost ineffective to design every single part and nut and bolt in a vehicle and then manufacture each and every one of them. Why re-design an injector or every single connector when there are existing parts already available and manufactured? In fact, you may be surprised at the small amount of parts on any bike that actually are proprietary. They're getting better at hiding it but most are a conglomeration of assembling pre-existing parts. Brembo, Showa, Bosch... Especially the cheap bikes. You'll see things like the same exact switch controls and turn signals over a vast array of brands. | ||
| Evilphoton |
replacement engine in and it seems mechanically fine. after riding it a bit, it fouled both plugs. i checked for spark and fuel and both are available. i can't get ecmspy to connect to the ecm. the cable i have tests good and i got the same error (timeout) on 2 laptops. the ecm has plastic putty on one side and the case and has been cut and the solder re-melted on the other side. i checked for continuity from the chassis end of the ecm plugs to all of the engine harness ends as well as the diag plug and grounds, all checked out ok. i ordered another ecu off of ebay to try, returnable so i can test with it. this one has a bunch of codes stored, but without being able to do a tps reset and clear codes, i'm kinda stuck for now. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Is the cable's driver installed? That stumped me when I first tried using ECM spy. I did not realize that the cable had a chip in the connector. I also had to plug into the ECM and the check with the Device Manager to find out which COM port was correct. With those two problems solved, connecting went without further issue. | ||
| Ourdee |
plastic putty on one side and the case and has been cut and the solder re-melted on the other side Pics please? | ||
| Evilphoton |
yes the drivers are installed, thank you though. it took me a while to get the versions right. with everything on and plugged in, when i flip the run/stop switch between stop and run, windows chimes as it sees the device, then makes the disconnect sound when i flip the switch to off. while off, it just shows com3 in ecmspy dialog and doesn’t include the other option with the name of the driver. then when on (run) the driver name and com3 show up in the connect dialog so ... i’m pretty sure the computer sees the ecm, or at lease some voltage, but it can’t talk to it. one laptop is win7, the other win10 and they did the exact same thing. tried both com3 and the other one. the driver will load on my mac but wine can’t run the exmspy app. the only other option seems to the the android app and bluetooth dongle. with the ecm work, i don’t know if it was preventative or there was a problem being chased when the bike got parked. other ecm should be here tomorrow, so i’m nervously excited. the ecm was wrapped in duct tape and wedged between the battery and fuse box to get it away from the seat, which also had a relief hole cut in it. that’s not a crack in the ecm, i was trying to chip off the glue but it’s like rock...the screwdriver was pointing away from me..   | ||
| Evilphoton |
if the video plays, that’s right when i got enough stuff hooked up to start it. it fired immediately and settled to a nice idle. notice it is blowing black smoke and i think this led to fowling the plugs. there’s a code for the rear injector, among half a dozen other codes, but i think clearing the codes and tps reset have to be done before i can get any further. someone please disagree. | ||
| Ourdee |
wow | ||
| Evilphoton |
wow that's what i said. | ||
| Shoggin |
Obviously get an ECM, but make sure to save your stock program first. I wouldn't be in such a hurry to be 'clearing codes', it doesn't make the bike run any differently and it a valuable clue for sure. +1 on TPS re-set  | ||
| Evilphoton |
“new” ecm connects and works! old ecm wouldn’t connect so this just has whatever map was in it. physically it’s in perfect condition. no cracks, not even in the rubber around the exhaust valve connection. super clean, has the stickers on it just like the new ones on St. Paul’s HD website. so, no codes now haha did tps reset. now it won’t crank. relay clicks, and i switched relays around in the fuse box, no change. the positive starter cable was partially grounding so i took it off the starter relay and checked and it was ok by then. i’m going to see if the starter solenoid will come apart with the starter still mounted. seems likely it’s a potential at this point. when i thumb start, the starter relay clicks, but the starter solenoid either barely clicks or doesn’t click at all. i’m both listening for it and have my hand on it to feel the click. based on the weird grounding thing with the positive starter cable, i think solenoid is next in the queue. when i hold the start button though, the voltage drops to about 10, which is more than i thought it would if it isn’t engaging the starter motor. so it’s trying really hard to do.. something. i keep watching youtube videos of personal reviews of the xb series and so many of them they say they’re just grinning ear to ear while riding it. i’m really looking forward to how this one feels. thanks all! | ||
| Evilphoton |
the tab from the positive battery cable into the solenoid was turned around so that it was binding the plunger partly closed. rotated the tab, tightened the input, sanded the connections and copper ring.. bam spins the engine good. haha now it’s backfiring out the intake. rechecked all connectors from plug ends to ecm plugs, changed cam position sensor from the other engine .. the injectors are putting out good spray. good spark. and we have compression. it’s like the distributor was put in 20° off. i’ll research what i can find and plug the laptop back into it and see what i can figure out. | ||
| Ourdee |
Correct injector plug on correct injector? | ||
| Shoggin |
Careful not to foul the plugs on it. It happens VERY EASILY on a Buell with repeated attempts at starting. | ||
| Tootal |
The timing can be adjusted on the right side of the engine behind the nose cone cover or cam cover. If the rivets have been drilled out and screws put in then somebody's been in there. You can use new pop rivets but most tap it out to 10-32 and use screws. Also check the intake for leaks. Pull the left air scoop off and right scoop or cover depending. You will be able to see the intake to head flanges. Spray brake cleaner or WD-40 around these flanges and see if rpm changes. When you did the tps reset did you clean the butterfly first? Any build up on the edge of the butterfly will keep it from fully closing and give you a false tps reading. | ||
| Evilphoton |
Ourdee - injector harness plugs are correct. there's a taped label for the rear cylinder and i also traced the wires with the wiring diagram - check Shoggin - it had iridium plugs in it which i love in the honda, but with this problem the plugs were fouled immediately. it took me a couple hours to figure it out. i put in a used set of regular plugs, got giant sparks, and it's firing on both cylinders ... mostly. at this point, it fires immediately and i can goose the throttle and hold it between 2500 and 3000 rpm but it's running like it's ridiculously lean or the timing is 30 degrees off. Tootal - that's what i'm going to do tomorrow is set timing. i have the process from the manual and online to use ecm spy to set the mark on the flywheel ... there are other steps i can't remember right now but yes, that's next. it could have been re-riveted, but i've never seen another factory rivet so it could be original . i knocked them out anyway and the timing plate had no marks around its hold-down screws so i kinda think it may not have actually been moved. Butterfly is clean. i took all of it apart when i changed engines and cleaned the whole intake, velocity stack to head flanges and took the dirty edge off of the throttle plate. the intake gaskets are new, straight and torqued correctly. hold down clamps are on the correct cylinders. In my testing, i took the rail and injectors out and let them spray out in the open (shush) while cranking. the pattern looked very good. i should have taken a slowmo video and i may do the same test again so i can look at a frame closer. I'm also going to do a fuel pressure test, i have a gauge somewhere but may be tricky to make an adapter. i do know that i can't hold the pressure back with one finger over the end of the supply hose when it primes, but it's tough to hold with one hand and thumb with the other. i have a list of all the parts required to replace the fuel pump and filter, etc. but i don't really want to do it if the pressure is ok. and going to do another tps reset and post the numbers i get back here for any analysis. when i did it the first time, it wouldn't go to 0, but was close. i followed the process from the ecmspy page. i didn't know then but the battery voltage was low, i don't know what the impact was of that. if it won't zero this time, i may loosen the tps mounting screws and see if there's any wiggle room to move it around and get closer. from what i read though, even if it won't get to zero after the throttle snaps, by doing the reset you're basically telling it where zero is. also there is a) fresh and b) fuel in the tank. i had the worst cold ever then a sinus infection after that so i've watched all of netflix over the past couple weeks. i appreciate all your replies and ideas!! | ||
| Tootal |
by doing the reset you're basically telling it where zero is. That's exactly what you're doing. When it's stuck in the bore you're at zero. One thing you might do is loosen the tps sensor and twist it clockwise and retighten. This adds a little spring pressure to it and helps with a smooth idle. So make sure you're fully closed and slightly stuck in the bore. Rotate the tps sensor clockwise. Reset tps to 0. Reset idle to 1000 to 1050. Your tps should be around 5 at this point. If it's low, like at 3 then your intake could be leaking. The rivets are special Harley rivets. IT's a pop rivet that won't allow the back end to drop off inside the nose cone. The rivet has a blind hole in it. I prefer to get a couple of nice stainless button head 10-32 screws and then tap the rivet holes to that thread. No need to drill them, they're at the right diameter as they are. If after all of that it's still a little off then get the engine hot and do another tps reset with the hot engine. Some run better with a hot reset, some don't. Mine does, that's all I know. | ||
| Evilphoton |
tps angle was 0.0 and voltage was .71 when i did the reset. thanks that sounds good about the screws, i’ll pick up a couple. i don’t have any riveting stuff. i took the fuel pump out and have ordered replacement pump, pressure regulator, hose, etc. when i first picked up the bike, it just fired up and ran (despite the bottom end thing). it has deteriorated since then. after taking the pump out, i found there are several holes in the accordion tubes. i had noticed that when i unplug the fuel line from the rail there is never any pressure. like 5 seconds after pump off. others i’ve taken apart retain pressure for at least as long as it’s taken for the engine to cool down. of course my pressure gauge is hiding so i have to guess. i think the pump was providing enough pressure to get it started and enough to barely keep running. this pump also sounds kinda sad compared to the others i have. they all seem to accelerate to speed immediately. and they run. anyway with everything else i figure replacing the pump assembly bits once while i have the bike is fine. and i’m running out of stuff to test. it looks like the plastic accordion tube is tough to get. the kit i got shows to come with the tube, hopefully it’s ok. if not i see there are elbow shaped pieces of fuel line too. | ||
| Evilphoton |
rebuilt the fuel pump. new pump, screen, filter, all seals and o-rings, regulator from St. Paul’s. now it has and holds full pressure, ~50lbs. STILL runs the same, spitting and popping and backfiring. it won’t hold a constant rpm and won’t idle, it only runs while i blip, big blip, the throttle. i’m out of ideas. i’ve wiggled all the wires that i can get to while keeping it running and nothing changes. plus all the stuff i’ve tried before. any thoughts or questions appreciated. | ||
| Ourdee |
Intake leak? |
