| Author | Message | ||
     Fernus |
Hey Buellers, Been trying to sort some issues with an 08 XB12XT that I picked up in April 2018. It started as me trying to correct the cough fart hiccup crap it does when blipping the throttle. It still does that. I tried retuning w ECM Spy after making sure the TPS was adjusted, I gave up on it and just dumped new code to it from Buelltooth. The only computer change I made was to disable exhaust valve open at WOT only. I checked the intake seals w propane. I even started to bypass the grounds but I only got the big one done so far. When I start the bike it roars to life on the 2nd try. The first try it seems like the compression is too much for the starting system. The starter binding happens cold or hot and some times makes a terrible noise. I'm pretty sure a new starter will be in order this winter. On a cold start after the bike has been running for a min or 2 it starts to pulse the exhaust valve and sometimes starts to pulse the rpms and sounds like it will stall. Then it starts to hiccup thru the intake and sometimes stalls. All this goes away once I start rolling except for the issues when blipping the throttle and some times the RPMs take a few seconds to drop to normal idle when I stop. Anyone ever experience these issues or have any ideas on what to check next? Thank you, | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
My 2008 had a ECU go bad. The hardware itself. It was sputtering as if the timing was wrong. I reflowed the connectors in the ECU but it still didn't behave. I got a new IDS "race ECU and it fixed it. I'm just throwing this out there. Also, my starter always cranked weakly and eventually died after 50k miles. Just throwing this out there. It may be a good idea to try another guy's CPU since 2008 bike are pretty easy to do the TPS zeroing thing. | ||
| Ourdee |
Fernando, I have a secret the guys let me in on. "When I start the bike it roars to life on the 2nd try. The first try it seems like the compression is too much for the starting system. The starter binding happens cold or hot and some times makes a terrible noise. I'm pretty sure a new starter will be in order this winter." Every time I shut Lil Red off, I put it in second gear and roll it backwards off compression. Then put it back in neutral. I've only had one hesitant start in hundreds since I started doing this. | ||
| Brucespoint |
Ourdee. spot on, why here. writer of post, seem timing to moi, wrenched on everything from icebreakers, to 1st outside fam job as bicycle tech. b. | ||
| Griffmeister |
What Nate said. I had similar issues with my 08, irregular idle, flat spot around 3K, didn’t seem to run right sometimes. Got a new IDS ECU and all that stuff went away. Not sure what you’re saying you did to the exhaust valve program or why. If you have an operational stock muffler with good cable and actuator then I wouldn’t mess with the program. Also, when are you blipping the throttle? Is this for rpm matching when downshifting? Just for haha’s, one other thing you might do is pull the air box off and just see if the throttle cable adjustment is correct and the butterfly opens and closes completely and smoothly. While you’re there you can also see more of the harness to see if anything is pinched or too close to any moving parts. There’s probably other things you can look at, just follow the KISS rules and make only one change at a time if you do adjust something. Good luck. | ||
| Ourdee |
It started as me trying to correct the cough fart hiccup crap it does when blipping the throttle. It's a Buell. They don't like throttle blipping. For what purpose are you blipping the throttle? | ||
| Brucespoint |
@Ourdee! Hah! Bingo! At others here, why i do Not touch bike set up by nuther iT guy previous owner, using XB9 can, He messed with setting up so beautifully, perfect control o' torque there naturally, perfect4Mois ridin style, hoping nevah to mess w/perfection, when no top end to be had, all worked out by Erik & Elves, for My ridin pleasure. over & out; do not blip the bull! b. | ||
| Fernus |
Natexlh1000 - Thanks, I don't know anyone that would have an ECU I could test with. Ourdee - I'll give that tip a try. I blip it for various reasons, some times to increase RPMs before letting the clutch out. Sometimes I'm not blipping just gassing and it hiccups. Griffmeister - I changed that setting cause open at WOT only is dumb. I hardly ever go WOT and I like the way it sounds with more rumble. | ||
| Griffmeister |
The fuel map correlates with the exhaust valve open times, if you change one you need to compensate by changing the other. Same for people that use aftermarket exhausts. I still have my original ECU, like I say, some idle and midrange issues, but it might help to indicate if there is an ECU problem with yours in a side by side comparison. Looks like you’re local if you haven’t moved since your profile, maybe we can meet up sometime and you can try it. | ||
| Ourdee |
Fernus, A couple of things are unique to the 08 XT.My prior riding style disagreed with the EPA compliant ECM. I liked to take off quick by opening the throttle and loosing the clutch lever fast. The Buell will try to increase the rpms if you just let out the clutch. For my type of takeoff I had to learn to bring the rpms up a little earlier. Another thing unique is the front rotor. Don't hold the front brake at lights and stop signs. It will build up brake pad sludge and you will feel pulsing while braking. | ||
| Fernus |
Griffmeister - Thanks. If your ever up in my neck of the woods let me know and maybe we can meet. So I take it that the valve open on WOT only is the factory setting. Part of the reason I wanted a Buell is cause I love the Harley sound. I don't wanna ride around with it sounding like a BMW. Ourdee - Thanks for the tips. | ||
| Nobuell |
Fernus I have an XT that had a similar starting and idling issue. My starter also acted funny when cold starting. How many miles are on the Bike? I resolved all issues by installing and new O2 sensor and TPS. Check out my recent write up in this section. | ||
| Fernus |
Nobuell I've been watching your thread. I didn't see that many similarities though. I will go back and read it again. The bike has about 30K on it. My starter is probably on it's last leg. It is weak cold or hot and sometimes while hot will sound as if it skips and catches again making a terrible sound. I'm going to complete my ground bypass and if that doesn't fix my issues I will start watching live data to see if it is a TPS or O2 sensor issue. Thank you. | ||
| Ourdee |
How old is the battery or what is the battery's internal impedance? | ||
| Griffmeister |
Of course the skip and catch part could be the starter drive clutch. A replaceable part if you can find one. | ||
| Nobuell |
I was not referring to the starter Drive that may be going bad on your bike. I was referring to your description of the Idle issue that you have. My bike was have cold idle problems as you describe. It also did not want to start and would stall the starter for some reason. I doubt that the Exhaust valve is rapidly cycling causing your idle issue. My bike did the same thing with the cold idle. Look closely at the TPS and Lambda Sensor as the malfunctions were not readily apparent. Also look at your AFV. If it is way off from 100%, especially lean like mine, the O2 could be bad. Good luck trouble shooting your issue. By the way, what new code did you install? What was the code designed for? Best | ||
| Fernus |
Ourdee - Battery is just over a year old but the PO told me they didn't have the correct battery and that it is a sportster battery that has a little less cranking amps. Griffmeister - I'll probably just install an all balls starter in the off season if this one hangs in there. Nobuell - Yes I know what you were referring to. Your bike's exhaust valve was also opening and closing at cold start? I didn't see that in your post. I haven't had a chance to check the AFV in a while but it was within 2% till I changed the valve setting. The code was for stock muffler w K&N Air Filter. | ||
| Nobuell |
Hello Fernus, the exhaust valve was not cycling. The IAC was bouncing around trying to correct the idle. Did you see the exhaust valve cycling? BEST | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Fernus, What makes you believe that the exhaust valve is pulsing? If the TPS is set wrong, or failing, the rapidly changing idle setting will make it sound as if the valve in the muffler is opening and closing somewhat. | ||
| Fernus |
I can clearly hear the valve cycling on cold start only. You can also see on the bell crank on the top of the muffler cycling from full open to full closed repeatedly during parts of the cold start sequence. | ||
| Nobuell |
That is very odd. Perhaps a intermittent connection or bad wire or a bad position feed back to the ECM? Do you have the XB Electrical Diagnostics Manual. It has trouble shooting guidelines if you can work around the often referenced Break-out Box. Could the valve also be cycling while you are riding also indicating and bad connection? I assume you checked for DTC faults when connected to Buellthooth? | ||
| Fernus |
I think if that were the case it would do it all the time but it is not. Only a min or 2 after a cold start and then it only does it for a couple minutes. Doesn't do it while I'm riding. No DTCs. I just have to find my coils so I can ground the mounting plate. If that doesn't fix it I may just deal with it till I replace the muffler this winter. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Opening and closing the muffler's valve, in of itself, should not affect idle operation. Whatever is causing the valve to cycle is probably the problem. It sounds like something is going wrong as the ECU comes off of the warm up settings. | ||
| Fernus |
I'm in the middle of a move and divorce so I decided to bring it to Old School HD aka TSI HD and even though I explained all this buggyness to the service rep. He calls me yesterday to let me know that the battery drops to 8 volts while starting, Codes are ok, Exhaust actuator seems ok, Fuel pressure is good. Bike seems to run fine except at startup. Has K&N and that is probably why. Recommends new spark plugs and TP reset. That will be $400! I was pissed! I said didn't I tell you to call me before spending to much time on it. I just changed the spark plugs last year. I'm going to call him back and ask why he wasted time checking the actuator when I told him it was pulsing, Did he check the ECU? Ugh! Did he check the starter? Grounds? | ||
| Shoggin |
Welcome to H-D 'service'. I honestly believe that H-D customers enjoy the snooty attitude and being pushed around by the employees. Including the salesmen. I can barely stand going into the Eagle Rider inside because of the pretentiousness.  | ||
| Griffmeister |
Well that’s a kick in the head. I see that they are under new ownership with a new name, does that mean most of the old people are gone? One of the service managers when it was TSI was a Buell guy, I guess not any more. Did they want to charge you for the TPS reset? That’s a five second no tools required job on 08 and up, I’d like to see the labor rate for that one. | ||
| Shoggin |
Key on, twist throttle three times, key off. Sounds like about $150 at H-D to me? But you do get free coffee so, you got that going for ya.  | ||
| Fernus |
I just ordered a Shorai LifePo4 LFX Lithium Battery - LFX21A6-BS12 and charger. If the starter still acts up I may dispute the bill with Visa cause they said all I need is a Battery. | ||
| Fernus |
Problem still exists so I brought the old battery in for a load test and come to find out it was a load of BS after all. The old battery put out 302 CCA. I'll be calling the dealer to demand a full refund on the $350 diagnostic fees later today. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
A couple more questions: Does the problem go away after the engine warms up or is always there when the bike idles for a bit? When starting, do you wait for the CEL to go out before pressing the start switch? I'm wondering if this is a cold start problem. Also wondering if it is a startup sequence issue. |
