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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Concensus on 2009+ Wheel Brgs? « Previous Next »

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Giarcg
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've been reading for hours and have not been able to nail down if the newer black seal brgs installed on 2009 Ulys are suspect. There is plenty of history regarding failure but year of bike is not always provided... when it is it seems pre '09 (orange seal) are the culprit. 17K on my '09 and the brgs are smooth and quiet... am I pushing my luck?

(Message edited by giarcg on May 18, 2019)

(Message edited by giarcg on May 18, 2019)
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have no idea where the seal color thing started, but it's pointless IMO. Like a brand preference or a MFG country, whatever... Put new ones in, within their design life and you'll be fine. Forever. No need for hokey fixes like peeling off the nicely sealed part, shoving in grease (brand here) and hoping you get the seal back in ok...

Most Buellers go much farther than 17k, even 50k without realizing bearings are a PREVENTATIVE maintenance part.
That means replace them BEFORE it ruins your wheel...

Personally, I replace them when I get new tires. Why not? super cheap and super easy to swap when the rim is off the bike already.

You could go evey other time you swap tires, but who's that cheap? They're $22! Just for the peace of mind, totally worth it.

Replace belt at 50k too, no matter what the manual says
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just take a sharp pointed pin and pop out the outer seal. Replace the bearing if it is rusty looking, if not just wipe in some fresh grease,straighten the seal and reinstall.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I believe in maintaining even new parts. I've seen the bearings fail at under 5000 miles due to water intrusion and rust. This popping off the seal to look isn't about being cheap. It is about knowing without hoping it is ok until whenever you have decided it may be a good time to replace them. As long as they have good fresh grease and no rust they will run a long long time.

If I changed my belt at 50,000 regularly I'd have to had pushed the bike 17,000 miles the first time and 20,000 the second time. IMHO picking random times to change parts is.....random. Mechanical shit can fail anytime.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My point is I feel it is best to actively inspect and maintain all of your moving parts. Every ride should have at least a quick pre ride look at the moving parts. That occasionally involves lubrication and or adjustment between oil changes or tire changes.
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When the XBs first came out in 2003 they did a recall and the wheel bearing seals were different colored than the original ones.
It was replace orange ones with black (or vice versa).

I know because I did every XB9 in the dealership.
That's how the color thing came about.

I don't know where the original ones came from but the replacements were from Hungary or Yugoslovia or someplace like that.
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Giarcg
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some history regarding seals...

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=142838&post=1505281#POST1505281
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't get me wrong Ettenuly, I didn't mean to suggest blindly operating a machine for 50K then replacing random parts.

Quite the opposite. I am suggesting a preventative maintenance schedule accelerated to what the service manual states. I have had my share of bearing failure as well, that is why I swap them at every tire change, and even keep a set in the saddlebags: )

Wheel bearings going bad at 5k miles isn't a maintenance issue. It's something else, and multiple belts breaking before 30K? Wow. I would certainly start looking for a cause instead of replacing the effect.

FYI, if you get into trouble on a trip (twice now), I have found that Napa usually carries the bearing part numbers, but only ONE each: ( However Fastenal seems to stock them all. Weird place to find them but I'll take it!; )
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Teeps
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Giarcg Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 -
17K on my '09 and the brgs are smooth and quiet... am I pushing my luck?


That depends on your bikes history.
If you are the original owner and have never ridden in the rain, washed the wheels using high pressure methods, never over torqued the axles during tire change.
Then, in my opinion and anecdotal experience, you are not pushing your luck.
My bike had 40k miles when traded, the front wheel had original bearings. The rear 2010 wheel had about 25K on the bearings that came with the kit and were installed by Al Lighton of American Sport Bike.



I see you are an engineer. So you know the importance of following procedures. In this case I'm speaking of wheel bearing installation for the rear wheel of the Buell XB series. Especially the Ulysses model.
Done wrong, it will not be a matter of if (the new bearing will fail) but when. Guaranteed it will be sooner than later...
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On my 06 Uly the rear hub was 1/4 full of water. I did not notice it until having conversations here I picked out the left seal to find rust mixed in the grease.

Belts are actually a 25000 mile deal in the book. I was lucky in that my first one shot out the back in my driveway, the second on returning from a long trip just as I was pulling into my driveway. Over 30,000 miles is not a bad belt life.

Oh. And I will admit to being cheap. But not at the expense of what I know can run longer by simply greasing moving parts.
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If they were still made today and I bought a new bike. I would buy a new belt as a spare. Run the original for 10,000 miles. Then make it my spare. At 35,000 miles I would get a new belt. I have a spare belt with me on every long trip. Froggy carries a stack of spare belts to every event. I also try to keep a set of rear bearings with me.
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Giarcg
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gents... thx for all the input regarding the bearing question. Since I had replacement brgs on hand I went ahead and installed them.

We now have at least one documented data point concerning '09 rear brgs. While they felt fine installed in the wheel once removed they actually rattled when tapped on. I didn't pull the shields yet but I would suspect the grease has degraded to some extent. The spacer measured about .04" short but I determined the depth of the wheel bore would accommodate the dimension.

All's good....
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have found through years of working with motor vehicle bearings, that what you will likely find behind your 10 year old bearings seals, will be small amounts of dried hardened wax like boogers in the races between the balls. You will see just how little grease actually lubricates the balls and races. Add any amount of water to form rust and they are doomed.

Ten years having never had fresh grease I'm totally with you on replacing them. I pop my front seals out and wipe in a little fresh grease, with the wheel still on the bike, every spring, and when ever I peep for a long trip.

On the rear wheel where the bigger issue is, I did months of study and expirements on several Ulys. I was changing a lot of tires for my riding group, so access was at hand.

I found three of five had the center rear hub of the wheel holding up to 4 ounces of water. Mine being the worst.

I Rode long distances often including into rain. The aluminum hub runs hot enough that you cannot hold your fingers on it. Without other sources of water we determined condensation to be the cause.

I had raced three wheelers years back and could destroy a set of live axle bearings on my 200x in a weekend, until I filled the rear hub clear full of marine grease to keep out water, dirt, deal with heat, and be a perpetual source of fresh lube. So, I did the same thing on my Uly. I installed a zerc fitting and pumped in a lot of marine grease. If I recall it took two full caulking gun tubes. Marine bearing grease will not contaminate ground water or heat and ooze like normal petroleum grease. I pump a couple shots as with the front bearings.

Others were fearing grease all over the rear of their bikes so we opted to drill a drain hole and a breather hole in the central hub to keep it dry.

I have not replaced any rear bearings since, but then, being fair, our riding habits have all dimmed a bit also.
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