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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Concensus on 2009+ Wheel Brgs? « Previous Next »

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Giarcg
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've been reading for hours and have not been able to nail down if the newer black seal brgs installed on 2009 Ulys are suspect. There is plenty of history regarding failure but year of bike is not always provided... when it is it seems pre '09 (orange seal) are the culprit. 17K on my '09 and the brgs are smooth and quiet... am I pushing my luck?

(Message edited by giarcg on May 18, 2019)

(Message edited by giarcg on May 18, 2019)
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have no idea where the seal color thing started, but it's pointless IMO. Like a brand preference or a MFG country, whatever... Put new ones in, within their design life and you'll be fine. Forever. No need for hokey fixes like peeling off the nicely sealed part, shoving in grease (brand here) and hoping you get the seal back in ok...

Most Buellers go much farther than 17k, even 50k without realizing bearings are a PREVENTATIVE maintenance part.
That means replace them BEFORE it ruins your wheel...

Personally, I replace them when I get new tires. Why not? super cheap and super easy to swap when the rim is off the bike already.

You could go evey other time you swap tires, but who's that cheap? They're $22! Just for the peace of mind, totally worth it.

Replace belt at 50k too, no matter what the manual says
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just take a sharp pointed pin and pop out the outer seal. Replace the bearing if it is rusty looking, if not just wipe in some fresh grease,straighten the seal and reinstall.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I believe in maintaining even new parts. I've seen the bearings fail at under 5000 miles due to water intrusion and rust. This popping off the seal to look isn't about being cheap. It is about knowing without hoping it is ok until whenever you have decided it may be a good time to replace them. As long as they have good fresh grease and no rust they will run a long long time.

If I changed my belt at 50,000 regularly I'd have to had pushed the bike 17,000 miles the first time and 20,000 the second time. IMHO picking random times to change parts is.....random. Mechanical shit can fail anytime.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 07:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My point is I feel it is best to actively inspect and maintain all of your moving parts. Every ride should have at least a quick pre ride look at the moving parts. That occasionally involves lubrication and or adjustment between oil changes or tire changes.
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When the XBs first came out in 2003 they did a recall and the wheel bearing seals were different colored than the original ones.
It was replace orange ones with black (or vice versa).

I know because I did every XB9 in the dealership.
That's how the color thing came about.

I don't know where the original ones came from but the replacements were from Hungary or Yugoslovia or someplace like that.
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Giarcg
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 10:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some history regarding seals...

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=142838&post=1505281#POST1505281
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't get me wrong Ettenuly, I didn't mean to suggest blindly operating a machine for 50K then replacing random parts.

Quite the opposite. I am suggesting a preventative maintenance schedule accelerated to what the service manual states. I have had my share of bearing failure as well, that is why I swap them at every tire change, and even keep a set in the saddlebags: )

Wheel bearings going bad at 5k miles isn't a maintenance issue. It's something else, and multiple belts breaking before 30K? Wow. I would certainly start looking for a cause instead of replacing the effect.

FYI, if you get into trouble on a trip (twice now), I have found that Napa usually carries the bearing part numbers, but only ONE each: ( However Fastenal seems to stock them all. Weird place to find them but I'll take it!; )
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Teeps
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Giarcg Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 -
17K on my '09 and the brgs are smooth and quiet... am I pushing my luck?


That depends on your bikes history.
If you are the original owner and have never ridden in the rain, washed the wheels using high pressure methods, never over torqued the axles during tire change.
Then, in my opinion and anecdotal experience, you are not pushing your luck.
My bike had 40k miles when traded, the front wheel had original bearings. The rear 2010 wheel had about 25K on the bearings that came with the kit and were installed by Al Lighton of American Sport Bike.



I see you are an engineer. So you know the importance of following procedures. In this case I'm speaking of wheel bearing installation for the rear wheel of the Buell XB series. Especially the Ulysses model.
Done wrong, it will not be a matter of if (the new bearing will fail) but when. Guaranteed it will be sooner than later...
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On my 06 Uly the rear hub was 1/4 full of water. I did not notice it until having conversations here I picked out the left seal to find rust mixed in the grease.

Belts are actually a 25000 mile deal in the book. I was lucky in that my first one shot out the back in my driveway, the second on returning from a long trip just as I was pulling into my driveway. Over 30,000 miles is not a bad belt life.

Oh. And I will admit to being cheap. But not at the expense of what I know can run longer by simply greasing moving parts.
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If they were still made today and I bought a new bike. I would buy a new belt as a spare. Run the original for 10,000 miles. Then make it my spare. At 35,000 miles I would get a new belt. I have a spare belt with me on every long trip. Froggy carries a stack of spare belts to every event. I also try to keep a set of rear bearings with me.
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Giarcg
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Gents... thx for all the input regarding the bearing question. Since I had replacement brgs on hand I went ahead and installed them.

We now have at least one documented data point concerning '09 rear brgs. While they felt fine installed in the wheel once removed they actually rattled when tapped on. I didn't pull the shields yet but I would suspect the grease has degraded to some extent. The spacer measured about .04" short but I determined the depth of the wheel bore would accommodate the dimension.

All's good....
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Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have found through years of working with motor vehicle bearings, that what you will likely find behind your 10 year old bearings seals, will be small amounts of dried hardened wax like boogers in the races between the balls. You will see just how little grease actually lubricates the balls and races. Add any amount of water to form rust and they are doomed.

Ten years having never had fresh grease I'm totally with you on replacing them. I pop my front seals out and wipe in a little fresh grease, with the wheel still on the bike, every spring, and when ever I peep for a long trip.

On the rear wheel where the bigger issue is, I did months of study and expirements on several Ulys. I was changing a lot of tires for my riding group, so access was at hand.

I found three of five had the center rear hub of the wheel holding up to 4 ounces of water. Mine being the worst.

I Rode long distances often including into rain. The aluminum hub runs hot enough that you cannot hold your fingers on it. Without other sources of water we determined condensation to be the cause.

I had raced three wheelers years back and could destroy a set of live axle bearings on my 200x in a weekend, until I filled the rear hub clear full of marine grease to keep out water, dirt, deal with heat, and be a perpetual source of fresh lube. So, I did the same thing on my Uly. I installed a zerc fitting and pumped in a lot of marine grease. If I recall it took two full caulking gun tubes. Marine bearing grease will not contaminate ground water or heat and ooze like normal petroleum grease. I pump a couple shots as with the front bearings.

Others were fearing grease all over the rear of their bikes so we opted to drill a drain hole and a breather hole in the central hub to keep it dry.

I have not replaced any rear bearings since, but then, being fair, our riding habits have all dimmed a bit also.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A summary of my experiences posted here in the past.

My 2005-built 2006 had orange seal NTN's as original. I don't remember when I changed them (50k?) but the races were rusty as hell inside the hub, good thing I had been greasing them for awhile. Did Treadmarks' "weep hole" mod and no more contained moisture found next time around.

Replaced with OEM black seal KBC's. Cages were different from the NTN's with a plastic separator of sorts in there and a white grease not green.

Ran those also with seal-pops and greasing at tire changes, until 100k or so, iirc. At that point I changed again (rear only, still on the KBCs in front) this time to Japanese (actually) Koyo's and this time I took them apart first and cleaned everything out to grease with the same stuff I would be touching up with in the future.

I've pretty much quit riding it since for various reasons so can't comment on the Koyo's too much but several things are clear to me.

Popping out the seals occasionally to inspect and touch some grease in there is no big deal and I've never had a problem resealing them. Ridiculously easy and benign and does nothing but good.

There were definite differences between the NTN's and KBC's so maybe that's why Buell changed. I did however notice a new CR on the showroom floor once that had a black and an orange on the front wheel, that was strange I thought at the time.

Careful extraction and replacement is the name of the game or you're gonna cause more problems than bargaining for.

Replacing them every tire change because they're "inexpensive" is ridiculous imho, and iirc Al Lighton cautioned against exactly that due to potential "roaching" of the wheel bores.

YMMV. It's your motorcycle and your money.
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Brucespoint
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Spot on Xbimmer!
Why this Board for Riders, not just Bad Weather Bikers, Dirty Division.
b.
Trying to choose less words, it scares the livestock.
And who Will try to contain his Politics, the rules that set How WE can live Our Lives, NOT just a nasty thing, delt with/Not by cruising in it Citizens.
And His-Story, that lays out the Reasons for that, & Much more Moi has studied All his silly Life, just cuz it IS. His-Story.
To His Own Thread, Exploring Desiging/Tuning of, Objects built by Erik & Elves, Bless Them 4 DOiNG it so well, on the Bike We All Love.
Over & Out.
Froggy, Love this Commenting Setup, trying to recommend to some places "I" frequent Online, may post on "My" Thread here when prodded, if allowed to Be.
Need that Info, everywhere, My Thing, Truth, as "I" see it, a Famile tradition, Cain't Help it.
Bite'me, if bothered, Free Speech, a Wondrous thing that needs Regular Maint.
Do Not really care what Others think, only that They do so, even if I have to poke.
A Title born to, Gadfly, Honest Intellectual Work/Job Description, one of Many I wear well Earned.
PS2, approps to the coming description.
RiDER; Lifelong, Squirrelly Chasesing Adrenal Stim, deliberatly Wide ranging Driving Anything movable, by any means, letrally Soaked in what I've Done, Dancing it into Muscle Memory Not to blow my own horn Evah, Damned good@Anything Ever Choosen2Do. Including impressing Other like chasers, Survivours of that Urge to Destruct or Live, Right NOW
Totally unentended, just being self, the point of iving, to "Mine Own Lights" Screaming aGainst the darkening skies. Workin it out on Any willing Foil, Bring it! Love it; Life.



(Message edited by brucespoint on July 01, 2019)
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Giarcg
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good God... how do you access the ignore feature on this forum?
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Ourdee
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You have been here for 28 posts. At the top of your screen where it says Buell Forum. There is an X. Click on that.
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Brucespoint
Posted on Monday, July 01, 2019 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dun.
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Giarcg
Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2019 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

dee - Yup, I have 28 posts and a life.... I think I'll just ignore.
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Brucespoint
Posted on Wednesday, July 03, 2019 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

tried to delete post, cannot.
too you Froggy, on this thread, will do all posts, evah, as I copy words there, not food for TLDR idiots, ruined our nation, I'll stick to mine own thread from now on here, wondering Why someone here a decade, only 28 posts, look in the mirror, answer there.
b.
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