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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » XB12X Engine Heat Management « Previous Next »

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Geoff
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I got my 2008 XB12X in December. I live in northern Illinois and it's too cold to tell if engine heat is an issue.

I'm aware of the Buell Comfort Kit. Thing is, only half the Ulys I see pictured on the web have some type of engine heat management. Some have a right side air scoop and/or exhaust pipe shield, others have nothing at all.

It's my understanding that Buell added the Comfort Kit on later model year Ulys. If engine heat is an issue, why haven't people who own older model years added the kit to their bike?

Rather than spend money on a problem that might not exist, I plan to wait until hot weather arrives before I do anything.

But for now I wanted to ask how others feel about engine heat? It it a matter of personal preference?
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Swanthog
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Heat from the rear head comes up on the right hand side between the seat and the frame. It gets really uncomfortable in stop and go traffic.
I put on a ceramic coated exhaust pipe but the problem is heat from the head itself.
If the comfort kit addresses this, it's something I'll try myself.
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Roostre
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's only been an issue for me if I get stuck in stop and go traffic on a hot day. Maybe I don't feel it as much because I wear a kevlar mesh pant.

That said, my new 2009 (upgrade from an '06 that was stolen) has the kit. It may be slightly cooler, but it can still get uncomfortable in those conditions.

Your expected usage may be the most important factor. I don't ride city traffic anymore if I can avoid it at all. Too many people on their phones.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The comfort kit does nothing to help the hot air coming off the rear cylinder head between the seat and the frame; in fact, it makes it worse. When the bike is moving, the right side scoop forces air around the rear cylinder head. Unless the fan kicks on, a lot of this heated air blows against the inside of your right thigh.

You can take off the seat and remove the airbox cover and use something to seal up the openings in the frame above the rear cylinder head. I used adhesive backed aluminum HVAC tape (NOT duct tape) and that works pretty well. That forces most of the hot air to go out through the fan opening whether the fan is running or not.

That said, on the 2008-up bikes, the updated ECM programming which turns the fan on at 10 MPH does help immensely whether you have a right side scoop or not. If you order a race ECM from IDS, you can specify if you want the updated fan logic or not.

There's no similar update for the 2006/2007 bikes, but you could install a manual switch to turn the fan on like Etennuly did on his to cure a weird ECM problem. That would also be an effective fix.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's also worth mentioning that Uly owners that have the tall seat (standard in 2006 and available as an accessory for later models) complain less about heat. Having ~2 inches of additional foam under your butt is bound to help with heat issues.
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Geoff
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't do much stop and go city riding. I live in a semi-rural area, just a few miles from country two-lane roads.

Has anyone added an exhaust pipe heat shield without the air scoop? If so, did this help?
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I rode 42,000 miles on an XT with low seat in northern Illinois. Taping the gap with furnace tape was the best thing I did to it. Enjoy.
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Geoff
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a 32-inch inseam. Definitely don't want a taller seat height. Would need a step ladder to mount the bike. LOL!
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Geoff
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Summit Racing makes an adhesive backed heat barrier that can be affixed to the underside of the seat. Has anyone tried something like this?

Or how about cutting a piece of heat-resistant material that can be placed under the seat (no adhesive) and easily removed? This material is conductive. My only concern would be keeping it off the positive battery terminal.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Its that gap where the super heated air off the rear header escapes just to the right of the boys.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)






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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I cut up a piece of green kevlar cloth.
I applied foil furnace tape to the back of the cloth.
I then attached it to the bike with black electrical tape.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That was the magic pill!
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Teeps
Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thing is the frame itself is a giant heat sink.
I don't care how much insulation is put on the inside frame rails; the frame still gets hot. The exhaust is hot.

I always wore racing leather pants when riding my Ulysses and the heat while it is ever present, never bothered me.

In fact the only time I noticed the heat is when riding in a cross wind blowing from left to right of the bike.
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Portero72
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In my humble estimation, the most comfortable set up on any of my Ulys has been the RSS, header shield, and updated fan logic. The engine cover under the seat only concentrated the hot air to that gap under your right thigh into a blistering jet. I took it out and never looked back.

BTW, I live in Texas and ride year round.
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Geoff
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Portero, thanks for the input. I was leaning toward the exhaust header shield, if I do anything at all.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This was the single biggest improvement that I've done.

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Froggy
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I recommend riding the bike before deciding if you really need it. I've found that proper riding gear did more to insulate me from the heat than any bike mod. I noticed no difference with the comfort kit, but heat was rarely an issue to start with.
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Court
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 12:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Precisely my experience.

I have always . . . .for over 30 years, ridden my Buells in Aerotstich Roadcrafters. The first discussions we had, surrounding heat management, occurred with the introduction of the first S1 Lightning.

I was confounded when folks would talk about the heat bothering them and didn't think much about it until I noticed the burn marks (from contact, not radiation) on the right knee of my pants leg.

The only time I have ever been seriously distraught with the Ulysses was during a 90 minute stint, being stuck in traffic, passing through the Washington, DC area on the way to Blue Ridge Parkway.

Like Frogster, I'd suggest riding in a couple configurations typical to your style and needs and see if and to what extent the heat is a concern and then focus your solution to your riding style and needs.

I tried to get rid of my Ulysses but the longer I have it the more I like it . . . . .I'm pretty attached as it was a birthday gift and I still have the paperwork signed by some of my old friends at the factory.

I installed, at the same time, prototype versions, of the Rider Comfort Kit (with programming) and the 2010 rear wheel and the bike is just a joy to ride.

Lights and wind protection will be on the "if it's staying" list of mods. But . . . I have about $7,000 worth of all the spare parts I could buy from American Sport Bike when Al closed and I love, even if only once a year, riding the darn thing.
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Buellerxt
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 06:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I completely agree, Froggy.
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Swanthog
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ourdee, Thanks!
I applied your suggestion and plan to try it out tomorrow : )
After the trouble I went through to purchase a used exhaust pipe, have it ceramic coated, install after fixing a broken exhaust bolt (!), only to see no improvement in leg roasting, I will be laughing off my foolishness when less than $0.01 in metal tape corrects the problem
: D
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 08:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



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Griffmeister
Posted on Monday, December 31, 2018 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just to be sure, there are different effects here with different solutions. The X/XT are generally hot under the seat in warmer weather, there is a lot of heat radiated off the rear header being so close to your leg and under the right circumstances you will get a superheated blast of air from between the seat and frame just behind the air box. The comfort kit was meant to reduce all of those effects.
First is a shield over the header to protect from radiant heat, the type you would definitely feel at stop lights although it is always there. Moving air at speed would minimize the feeling.
Second is the right side scoop and under seat deflector to help get more air to the engine and to keep that air from getting under the seat.
Third is the latest ECM flash that changes the fan logic so that it is always on at speeds above 15 mph.
When I bought my 08 I installed the comfort kit but did not get the reflash. When you are traveling at speed but the fan is not running the extra air flow really pushes that hot air out between the seat and frame. Because of that I always had something covering that opening in the frame where the rear head sticks out. Of course when I bought a new ECM it came with the updated logic, but I keep the tape on just in case.
The only problem now is that the header heat shield seems to have self destructed from vibration and fell off. When stopped I can feel the difference in radiant heat compared to before. Guess I need to come up with some kind of substitute.
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Geoff
Posted on Monday, December 31, 2018 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Griff, thanks for the explanation. You can buy an exhaust heat shield separately from the kit. Aftermarket shields are much less expensive than the Buell part. Check eBay. I ordered a carbon fiber shield--looks better than the OE piece.
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Tleighbell
Posted on Monday, December 31, 2018 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My $0.02: My 06 Uly came with the comfort kit so I can't compare. It can get hot but nothing you can't live with. Have not spent a lot of time in stop and go traffic. the plastic shield/shroud part of the kit is a PIA if you want to remove the rear shock. I think the right side scoop may have benefits for engine cooling regardless of whether it affects comfort. I don't know if the plastic shield/shroud is needed for engine cooling. There was an earlier post in which someone got relief from heat soak into the frame by installing some of that rubber/plastic knee grip stuff.

I wonder about the effect the kit might have on rear shock performance. Heat seems to be an issue and I wonder if the kit traps or circulates more hot air around the shock and reservoir.
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Lowflyer
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2019 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just put some pants on and ride it. 😁
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2019 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PANTS +1
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Etennuly
Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2019 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wear a double mesh summer riding pants. No heat on the leg problem.

Rode it about 4 miles to the post office one hot 100 degree day wearing shorts that I just happened to be wearing all day, where it was just too hot to put my gear on, this was years ago. OMG! Almost had to walk it home! Burns almost happened. Stood up put my right knee on the seat.

Tried it with just jeans once. Damned hot! No way to work that.

It made me be ATGATT! No sneaking out on the Uly!
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the thread and info, I get a searing heat from that gap between frame and seat, most of my riding is city stuff... fortunately we have lane sharing here now... which helps keep moving to keep overall temps down... but that fire blowing from the frame gap, yikes!
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Glenn
Posted on Monday, June 10, 2019 - 07:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wear riding pants all the time and still felt the heat. I have a 2007 and also a 2006 seat. When real hot the 2006 tall seat is best. I have a 32" inseam.

I have the comfort kit, ceramic coated my header pipes, foam heat aluminum foam to inside of frame rails, and use a little heat blanket under the seat. All is fine now!
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