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Tempest766
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This year I'm experiencing some voltage and starting problems on the Uly.

This is an 08 DDFI-3, so please don't speculate if you have an older model and are not sure about it. There are slight differences in the electrical/charging system from 07 to 08: namely the VR is different.

* Need to keep it on a tender to start it if I don't run the thing every day

* getting occasional low voltage error codes while riding; usually coincides with the fan kicking into high speed while riding then pulling up to a stop after highway cruising.

* main ground under seat is good (near zero resistance from battery to multiple points on the frame)

* VR was replaced two years ago (long lead time from HD)

* while running voltage across battery is 14.3ish at idle. Stays pretty constant when up to 4000 RPMs...not checking at higher RPMs

* voltage across battery drops below 6V when trying to start

* battery is 4yo, but Oreilly said it tested OK at 220amps; notes said in last 1/4 of of useful lifetime

What does your gut say? battery problem, or should the VR and starter be more carefully inspected first?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The need to keep it on a battery tender seems to point to either a bad battery or a parasitic electrical draw in the system. A reading of 14.3V at idle seems to indicate both the VR and the stator are good.

If you have a volt/amp meter, set it to measure amperage, disconnect one of the battery leads and use your meter to measure the current draw on the battery by connecting from the disconnected lead to the battery (make sure things are arranged for the correct polarity). Don't turn the ignition switch on; you want to measure the current draw when everything is off. If it's much at all (maybe as little as 1 amp), you've got a problem in your wiring.

If there's no appreciable current, I'd say that points to your battery. 4 years of life out of a motorcycle battery is about the limit in my experience.
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Tempest766
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

@hugh - ok...misread the previous post...Yes, test draw with everything off...with switch on the headlight would probably draw at least an amp
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I second Hugh with thoughts on the battery. Dropping below 6V is not normal, and yea it might be at its last 1/4th life if all it did was start a lawnmower, not run a motorcycle with a picky fuel injection system and low output stator.
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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have used battery tenders for years. Only complaint I can make is that my batteries seem to go south on me with no warning. I think I would have had more warning if they weren't getting charged up every time they went low.

Last 1/4 of it's life? I would replace it. When jumping cars for pay and testing the batteries I was adamant about letting people know it was battery time when the batteries were at less than 40% life. I didn't care if they bought one from me. I just didn't want them stranded when it gave up the ghost. If you aren't taking any trips or riding much more this season, I'd replace it in the spring, first thing.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Agree, battery time.

If you want to make 100% sure, do the stator test per the shop manual (test each leg of the stator's AC output), and the VR test per the manual as well (checks DC output from the stator).

If you want to replace (or just food for thought) the VR, go with a Shindengen. Universal, easy to get (roadstercycle.com), works on single-phase or 3-phase electrics, MOSFET system, and not expensive. Everyone I know who put one on their bike (myself included) loves it. And if it shits the bed, every UJM on the planet uses them. FH0020, maybe? Check the roadstercycle website, not only great pricing but also great customer service.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You got four years from a battery?
I'm impressed.
Most I ever seem to get is three.
I never use a battery tender except for over winter though.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 05:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Before trying to start the bike, what is the battery's resting voltage?

Dropping to 6v is far too much of a drop and is clearly indicative that the battery cannot stand up to the starting load. Much below 10v indicates a problem. Even with a locked starter, voltage should be maintained for a few seconds.

It sounds as if your battery has failed.
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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 06:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1 on the Ratbuell. I ran that VR on my Uly. Happy, Happy, Happy.
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Tempest766
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cleaned the battery contacts and am seeing much improvement. I need to test over the next couple of days to see if

1) battery (switch off) voltage is good
2) voltage drop when starting a cold engine is excessive
3) idle across battery with running engine is where it's suppose to be, and responds as it should at higher RPMs

It MAY have been the battery contact corrosion causing too much resistance, but I'll hold opinion until I've check out some more things. I had a tender pigtail wired in and and I'm not convinced that stacking those washers and pigtail loops under the battery bolts was a good thing.

Thanks!
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Griffmeister
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2018 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+1 on whatís been said. Major problem here does seem to be the battery, 6 volts too low under any circumstances. Technically I think the ECU will start to shut down below 10 volts, but Iíd have to double check that. You donít seem to have a VR problem at all. For future reference, big indicator is blown headlights if youíre using conventional bulbs. Other thing to note is that voltage spikes can happen randomly, suddenly and briefly where you may never see the change in voltage if youíre trying to watch a meter. On the other hand, I think that some of the voltage monitors with the multi color ledís will detect these changes and let you know.
Took me a while, but after the third stock VR went on my Ď08 I bought the Shindengen and havenít looked back.
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Shoggin
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Battery killers.... ahem 'Tenders' work much more effectively on a duty cycle less than 100%

A good trick for us lazy folk is to put it on a timer. The cheap dial x-mas light style timers work well, On for 4 hours a day is still way overkill even with a 1 aH draw.

Your battery is bad no matter what the fake electronic tester says. Replace your battery with a good 220CCA (not 200CCA junk) gel battery. Deka makes good ones in the states.

I have had really good luck using a Li-ion battery from Shorai.
They are pricy but unbelievably LIGHT and 315(!!) cca. Gat a specific Li-ion charger/tender for it.
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 02:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't actually use a tender. I use a Schumacher SC1319 1.5A 6V/12V Automatic Battery Maintainer.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My "tender" is not a tender either.
It's an old lab power supply that I set to 14.2V and limit the current to .25A

It draws current til it gets to the right voltage and then stops.

For maximum laziness/cheapness, I usually just put them all in parallel with clipleads.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I rotate a battery tender jr. through my bikes. Week at a time (or when I ride, I switch).

Last Uly battery went nearly 7 years. Don't think I've put one in my 09 CR yet. One replacement when it was young, due to the stator recall, but that's it. Honestly can't remember the last time I put one in the S1W...
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Tempest766
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, now the battery voltage, when running, is less than 12V. Went out this morning and battery read good at 12.8V. Started the bike, watching the voltage drop down to about 9V, then let it warm up. Put the bike in gear and pulled out of my driveway. looked down and engine light was on. turned around and went back to garage, where I checked battery voltage at idle and at 3k RPM, but battery voltage stayed under 12V.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unplug the stator leads to the VR and check the stator windings. From either winding to ground should be 0 ohms, absolute. Check AC voltage across the pair while the engine is running. You should find (I don't have a manual at hand) 40 to 60 VAC at 2k to 3k rpm. If both are OK, the stator checks good and suspect the VR.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2018 - 02:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Regardless the year, voltage should not spike below 9.6 volts when starting, supposed to show 12.6 volts static before testing.

If you had corrosion on the battery leads I'd revisit them. First test grab each lead, forcing them towards loose with your fingers. If you can make them move at all try some star washers and get them to where you cannot move them.

I'd fully charge it then hit it with a load tester.

I'm betting on a weak battery.
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Tempest766
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2018 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

battery is actually ok and still has some life left in it. the frackin VR is going out again...so looks like the EOM shit VRs have an MTBF of 20,000 miles. The confusing thing this time was that it didn't overvolt and burn out the headlights like last time, just quit passing current to the battery sporatically.
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Griffmeister
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 07:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rather than giving up on regulating it just gave up on passing voltage altogether. Just to be sure, better check the wiring between the stator and the battery for any problems.
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When my OE regulator failed, it would stop passing current when it was hot. It seemed to take about 30 minutes of riding before the voltage would drop.
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Tempest766
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK Gents.

It is a relative certainty that the second OEM VR in my useless (someone coined the term and it's beginning to have some appeal) has crapped out. After two OEM VRs, each lasting less than 20K miles, it's time to go third party. Looks like the Shindengen VR is a product of choice.

Stator leads show 0.3-0.4ohms across them, and infinite resistance from stator leads to ground. Once bike heated up and was running VR was only outputting 4.8V. When cold it delivers 14.24ish volts.

Anyways, my bike is an 08 XT. Please, someone who has done this before help me verify the process.

1) I want the FH020AA VR, right?

2) I should be able to cut the existing leads from the OEM VR and wire the existing harness connectors to the "crimp-n-go" kit from roadster.com?

3) black connector is VR output and grey connector is stator input?

4) need a mounting plate so may just get a universal plate from roadster and drill it as necessary to make it work where the old VR sat.

Any problems with the above that I'm not considering?
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

1) SHINDENGEN FH020AA (Yalp
http://roadstercycle.com/
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Mark_weiss
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 05:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Once bike heated up and was running VR was only outputting 4.8V. When cold it delivers 14.24ish volts.




Yes, that sounds familiar.
The Universal plate will fit without drilling. You will need to purchase a couple of countersunk screws to mount the plate.

I cut and spliced the old VR connector in order to minimize new wiring.
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Motorfish
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 11:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I replaced my cooked stator with a Cycle Electric stator at, around 25k miles. Rode about 350 miles with my voltage monitor going over the place. The VR had cracks in the potting, didnít trust it, so I replaced it with a FH020AA Shindengen Crimp and Go. Jack is a great guy to deal with. I ran separate wires directly to the battery with a 30A breaker. I made a mounting plate with spacers from my local hardware store.06 & 07 had a 3 phase stator, 08-10 have single phase. The Shindengen works with either. Iím hoping that I have a pretty reliable system now.
I know itís unbelievable, but I got 10, yes, 10 years out of my original battery! I started using a tender when it was about 2 years old, and kept it on it, until I ďretired ď it. It was still working fine but I didnít want to push it more. Crazy eh?}
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2018 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Add me to the list of riders that installed a FH020AA Shindengen VR. I kept the stock VR plug so I could swap back if I wanted to but I may get rid of that at some point.

I think the big thing with these bikes is to install some sort of voltage indicator on the dash so you know you have a problem before the bike dies on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2018 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I use a single LED voltage monitor from Gammatronix. One button, six programs.
https://estore-sslserver.eu/gammatronixltd.com/epa ges/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.sf/sec926 e2adcc2/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1 -e89006e78fbe/Products/J
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