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Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » 2008 XB12XT won't upshift into 3rd when warm « Previous Next »

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Gkostolny
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Folks,

The Uly has been mostly pretty reliable the last 10 years, but now I'm running into a problem that's got me pretty much screaming in my helmet every time I go out to ride.

Basically, when cold I can shift up/down all the way from 1st to 5th and back. But once the bike is at operating temp I can't shift either down past third or up into third from second.

I tried adjusting the clutch and also loosening up the primary chain a bit, but as far as I can tell neither action had any effect. Any ideas?

Thanks very much!

Gabe
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Griffmeister
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This could be a difficult one and might need a methodical approach. There have been a number of shifting threads on here but damn if I can find them now. There could be a good chance that something is worn, but what? Need to start taking notes and see what others think. How does the shift lever feel? Does that change from cold to hot? If you get stuck in the lower gears, can you do a clutchless up shift? Anything that comes to mind could help in diagnostics. Hopefully someone else here can make a real list to check out.
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Shoggin
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 10:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The only thing specific to gear changes would be the shift drum. I can't imagine what would change when it's warm.

1) My first guess would be primary chain too tight (like 99% of home mechanics leave them). Set it (3/8" total free play) when hot. Way too loose is ok, slightly tight is very bad.

2) Maybe the shifter lever is binding? Make sure it returns to a 'neutral' position. An overtightened or sticky pivot bolt will do that.

Been knocked over lately? A bent shift rod will do weird stuff like that and act like #2.
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Ourdee
Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd guess Shoggin's #1.
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I first looked at adjusting my primary chain, I thought when it gets hot it should be longer then it dawned on me that the engine aluminum expands more than the steel chain. I've always been amazed that the chain gets tighter as it all heats up. I think it is this oddity that leads to so many people having too tight a chain after adjusting it.
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Teeps
Posted on Friday, September 07, 2018 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Only thing not touched on is the oil.
And I say that rhetorically, as unless the trans is nearly dry. I can't think of a reason for the type of oil causing your stated problem.
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Tempest766
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 01:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 08 xt was always a rough shifter when hot, and harder to find neutral. The primary chain is within publish play spec but maybe I'll loosen it just a bit to see how the tranny feels.
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Smorris
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i was told rule of thumb for "HOT" chain tension means you can not hold your finger on it without thinking, damn, that's too hot to mess with.

do it completely cold.
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Smorris
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i was told rule of thumb for "HOT" chain tension means you can not hold your finger on it without thinking, damn, that's too hot to mess with.

do it completely cold.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Remember, the cold measurement spec is looser- 3/8" to 1/2".

The big thing is to measure the entire range of chain movement. See below. Take your finger and push it down; that's your "zero" point. From that point, push it up and measure that whole distance. Adjust til that distance meets the spec. If you only push up or down, you'll set it too loose. Also, check it in several places. Measure, rotate the engine a few degrees, check again, repeat. Set it so the tightest place on the chain meets the spec. The chain will generally have two points where it's tight.



I usually set mine hot, toward's the tighter end of the spec (1/4-3/8"). Then I go for a ride and get it really hot, and see how if there's any difficulty shifting into/out of neutral. If there is, I back off on the primary adjuster a little and check it again. That method seems to work very well.

Long time Badwebber Buellistic (RIP) was a big proponent of running it very loose (say 5/8" cold), but I've noticed the vibration increases significantly if I run mine that loose.

If the primary oil level is too high, this can cause issues with finding neutral, but I doubt it would cause shifting problems. Still, might be worth checking.
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Griffmeister
Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The most troubling thing is the part about third gear. Everything outside of the transmission goes through the same motions for every gear, shouldnít do anything different for a specific gear. I hope that maybe an oil change and chain adjustment fixes everything up.
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Blakeaspencer
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2018 - 09:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've had problems like this in the past. Ended up the clutch bearings were bad as well as the shift pawl was bent. Replaced the clutch assembly and straightened the shift pawl and it worked great for 25k miles. Now why that only effected 3rd gear I have no clue.
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Eaglerider
Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had the exact same problem. Gone through clutch, shift paw, etc. I ended up rebuilding the transmission and engine at 27k
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Blake
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As noted already by wise folks, be sure to adjust chain at its tightest spot. Looser is better in my experience.

Did the shifting issue manifest suddenly, or did it start out as difficulty in shifting and geting progressively worse over time?

If it was a sudden onset, what if anything occurred with the bike just prior?

Have you by chance been using a primary/tranny lubricant that includes suspended solids such as the Redline Heavy Shockproof variety? I think that's the right product name, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

(Message edited by Blake on October 28, 2018)
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Gkostolny
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the helpful responses. To answer one of the more recent questions, this came on a bit slowly. Initially it was just occasional difficulty, then it just became basically impossible to shift. And Iíve only been using the HD fluids for the last couple years. Before that I did use some Amsoil for a while.

I havenít had time to tear down the bike because my wife & I bought a house thatís needed quite a bit of work and thus the weekends have been otherwise occupied. I hope to get into it in the next few weeks & will keep you all posted on what I find.

Thanks again!
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