G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » Big, Bad & Dirty (Buell XB12X Ulysses Adventure Board) » Cooling fan ? 09 Xb12xt with comfort kit « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cooling fan runs constantly at any temp or speed above 10 mph. I shuts off below 10mph and stays off. I don't remember this at all and do remember it coming on when hot and running after shutdown.

What is normal running for cooling fan?

Thanks
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Etennuly
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They changed the fan logic after years of complaints about the fan running at shut off.

The logic was reversed. Run the fan at speed to keep the engine cooler at all times so a big cool down was not so necessary at shut down.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine must not have had the update, because it never ran like that. Does it run all the time regardless of the temps?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It runs when over a temperature threshold, and over a speed threshold.

Once under the speed threshold, it will turn off.

People complained about the low-speed "fan noise", so they changed the program (like Vern said). Only applies to 08-up bikes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2018 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I understand that the fan will run over 10mph.

Will it run over 10mph regardless of temp?For example at 40F degrees the fan will stay off when you first start out and then come on when bike reaches temp. Mine seems to run regardless of temp. Will this constant running wear out the fan?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm assuming if you don't like this you can re-flash to the old method.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Re-read my first sentence above.

There is still a temperature threshold. Whether they lowered that trigger point, I don't know. My bike is an 06 so even though I have the hardware (ducting, scoops, etc), I'm not able to get the software.

I have 30k+ on the factory fan though. The fan really only seems to fail if you have breather or rocker box leaks, and the fan gets oil soaked. If it worries you...buy a fan and keep it on the shelf.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for all the replies.

The reason I'm confused is my bike never acted this way before. The fan ran only when hot and after shut down. (old tune?)

Then one cold 40* up to 65* riding day, I noticed it running all the time and it would shut down under 10mph. I would speed up and it would come back on. Strange behavior I thought.

It also started throwing an intermittent 02 sensor code. It would come on and go off, about 6 times. Then it cleared. I checked for the code, that is how I know,so I took it to a harley shop and they claim I need a new ECU. They claim the ECU controls the Fan and that must be it.
They also claim the ECU was causing the 02 sensor error???

I questioned there expertise and that is where we stand.

Suggestions are appreciated.



.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When did you change the ECM, or have it reprogrammed? That's the only way your fan logic would have changed...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Original ecm from 2009. That's why I'm confused.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Monday, February 12, 2018 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The dealer must have updated the programming when diagnosing it.

It is still temperature based, it will still kick on the fan if you sit idle long enough (or get stuck in traffic), and it won't kick in the fan when moving until it warms up. It can still kick the fan on after key off, but that is extremely rare.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks again,

The consensus is the ECM is not bad because of this fan running constant except below 10mph

Any comments on the intermittent o2 error messages. Bad O2 censor or ECM caused?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What was the code - high, low, or no voltage?

Mileage on the bike?

Tall or low seat? ECM in stock position or relocated or using standoff blocks? How's the wiring?

For my money, it'd be worth a $28 O2 sensor (or whatever they cost these days) just to troubleshoot it...or ride it and see if the code comes back.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 07:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The O2 sensor could be failing, but it indeed could be a damaged ECM causing problems. The O2 sensor doesn't really have a troubleshooting guide, but it is around $20 and will take you only an hour to replace, so I typically just recommend replacing it if suspect.

Bosch part number 12014, it is a common automotive sensor, so it is on the shelf at literally any decent car parts store.


https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bosch-oxygen-s ensor-12014/3486109-P


There is a common problem with the ECM, where if in the stock position the seat will press down on the connectors, creating tiny cracks which cause all kinds of running issues. There are threads on here about building armor to protect the ECM from the seat, another option is to try and move the ECM elsewhere
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sharkguy
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 08:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have an 09 X with 30,000 miles. My original ecm has the fan run this way since I purchased it. According to the original purchaser he had it updated/reflashed sometime in 09. My fan started dying at about 28,000 miles. I reused the housing and just bought the new fan motor. There was no evidence of oil contamination on it. The bushings and shaft were wearing out. I haven't done it but it might be a good idea to have a manual over ride to disable the fan. This could be used for cold weather riding especially in northern climes. I installed the EBR ecm in 2010 and have been running that ever since. It's fan logic is similar. Since I ride primarily in FL it does come on during hot days at idle in stop and go or after a run and the bike is turned off.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bike is an 09 with 42,000 miles, well kept. I have owned it since new. I'm familiar with the cracked connector issues. I purchased my bike in 09 and had dealer add comfort kit. I went through several ECU's under warranty before, after research, learning of this issue and fabricated a block myself. Tech must have thrown away the block when installing the comfort kit!!!

From my experience when the ECU goes in this manner your have all kinds of run issues after the seat warms up and presses on the ECM. My bike is running great, just the fan and 02 sensor code.

I checked the code using the flash method and get 13. Based on exhaust soot, I would say it is running rich. But just guesswork. Stock Exhaust.

HD said the ECM was causing the fan and 02 issue and then reversed position when HD tech support said fan was running normal.

I questioned the need for an ECM. They replied the 02 code? This sounds fishy to me.

This is how I see things.

Option 1 Pay for the new ecm and if the code returns HD was wrong and I need a new 02 sensor and will have an extra ECM that cost $400.00 Lesson learned.

Option 2 Tell HD to put my ECM back in. If the code returns, change 02 sensor. If the code returns again, HD was correct and I need a new ECM.

Option 3 ???

One more question. Manual say to change 02 sensor you need special socket and have to remove shock and fan to gain access. Is this correct?

Thanks for all the info and part # on 02 sensor.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jasonmcelroy
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm for option #2, but we all have different goals and budgets. I personally don't trust others working on my bike, and in the case of Buell don't think many shop techs have the experience or documentation to diagnose accurately.

I changed my O2 sensor in an hour or two without removing the shock and using a home-made socket. It's a bit fiddly due to cramped space but can be done.

Remove the comfort kit (if you have one) to allow access to the sensor from the timing side of the bike.

The only thing special about the socket is that it has a slot cut into it to allow the wire to escape out the side. You can cut a regular 7/8" socket with a cutoff wheel in five minutes and have your "special tool". You might also consider finding a 7/8" socket with hex flats at the top in case you need to turn with an open wrench instead of a 3/8 socket drive. Pics of mine below.

I bought an O2 sensor from the local auto parts shop. I don't have the number handy, but you can look it up easily enough.

Have fun.

Jason


http://www.greasygringo.com/temp/Buell/slotO2socke t900.jpg
http://www.greasygringo.com/temp/Buell/hexdrivesoc ket900.jpg
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ratbuell
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Have 'em swap the sensor if you aren't doing the work yourself. $28 part instead of $400.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Arry
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you are thinking about replacing the ECM, I would consider contacting IDS (idspd.com) instead of going through HD parts.
I didn't know about them when I replaced my ECM, a few years ago, but the reports about them, on this forum, sound like they are a helpful and knowledgeable supplier.
You might call them about your particular symptoms.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nose2wind
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 08:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sharkguy: Does your fan run constantly over 10 mph regardless of temp?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sharkguy
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nose2wind, I believe it does. I can't think of anytime it hasn't. I live in Florida though and it may not get cold enough here to affect the fan program. To tell the truth, I pretty much forget about it anymore.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jasonmcelroy
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I second the nomination for IDS.

They took the time to answer my detailed questions and were completely professional.

More than I can say for many dealer experiences.

Jason
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration