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Jhallgren
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey guys, I am still tracking down horrible surging on my Uly during cruising speeds from 3000-4000 RPM. I have a thread from last year regarding this issue. For further info, feel free to check it out. Its quite lengthy but has all the details of what I have done to try to resolve this issue.
Thread :
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/793983.html

I have a log file I ran on the way home from work today. I opened the log with MegaLogViewer but not really seeing anything crazy but not a 100% sure what I am seeing as far as the full data. Was wondering if anyone here was good at analyzing the log files and maybe could take a look at let me know if something looks off. I can email the log file or try and attaching it here. Let me know if anyone is interested in helping me analyze the log to figure this issue out.
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Steveford
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why not take the TPS off, put some dielectric grease in it and preload it a little bit when you reinstall it?
It's only a hunk of plastic which will wear over time and that will cause erratic running.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll bite on this one. I've only seen log files on my own bike (07 12x) so I've limited knowledge of what else is out there. Pm a copy of .msq file to me and I'll give it a once over. I've only got free version which takes 5000 records and not the whole file. What program did you use to data log with? And how long a log? Right from cold start or bike already hot? Sorry but chatty Kathy bit but a lot of info to know about. Email is in profile of mine. I want to see how you have mlv set up as I may not be correct in my assumptions as well.
A learning curve for all!
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Jhallgren
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 09:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PM Sent Paul.

Steve, I put in a new TPS and injectors last June when I replaced my intake seals. No change for the surging issue.
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Etennuly
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

With what all you have done I am thinking perhaps plugged fuel injectors.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 10:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Vern, I put new injectors in last just when I had the TB out to replace the intake seals. This spring I replaced the fuel pump assembly as I had a spare one because I suspected a clogged fuel filter. I put the original back in my parts supply after I replaced the fuel filter on the original assembly. The stock fuel filter was not even clogged. I could blow through it with no restriction.
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Etennuly
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 06:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry. I read all of that and missed injector replacement. One thing I had on my Uly in this department was that the three wires to the TPS had melted their insulation together just enough that they had to be peeled apart. Two of the wires had just started shorting together when I found them. It was causing an intermittent stumble.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll have to check that out. I would think thought that would show up in the log as the TPS erratically jumping around at times.
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Steveford
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Can you try attaching the log here? Something should jump out, I would think.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 09:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have attached the log. I am using Megalogviewer. I had to convert the log to an .msl extension to view it. Other log viewers should be able to view that extension as well.
application/x-zip-compressed
Log file.zip (274.6 k)
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Steveford
Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2017 - 08:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I'm reading this properly (I was too cheap to register), the 02 sensor starts off normally when it first kicks in but it's dipping too low and towards the end of the log you can see the voltage go to 0 and then get stuck in the .850 range and then bounce to zero, repeat.
I'd have to look in my training manuals to tell you for sure what the correct range is but I know that 0 isn't in spec!
.19 seems to stick in my head but I'd really have to look it up.
I'm having good results with this one:
NGK/NTK 21001

Hope this cures it for you.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2017 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just replaced the O2 a month and a half ago because I was speaking back and fourth with IDS regarding bad surging and IDS recommended that I replace it since I was having surging and had 29000 miles on the original O2. After replacing the O2, there was really no change in surging.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2017 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I re-read the other thread but I don't see that you ever checked for a vacuum leak. It seems like that would manifest at idle, but the IAV might mask that. Could a sporadic lean condition cause the odd O2 sensor readings? If you haven't checked the intake seals, it's worth a try.

If not that, maybe something in the wiring between the O2 sensor and the ECM? You could unplug the ECM and O2 sensor and figure out which pin in the ECM plug corresponds, check resistance between the O2 sensor plug and the ECM plug while moving the harness around to see if you get anything odd in the resistance reading.
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Steveford
Posted on Friday, June 30, 2017 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've never seen an 02 sensor go to zero volts before.
According to my handy dandy 06 manual, you want it bouncing around .48 volts, not zero to .85 plus.
The manual says poor (electrical) connection, dirty/stuck injectors, loose O2 sensor or a loose or leaking exhaust.
It might also be a duff sensor, too. Simply because it's new doesn't mean it's going to work properly.

You've also got the IAV thrown into the mix which, fortunately, isn't on my Useless.
If it's like the one on my Triumphs it's check voltage which you can adjust, check for leaks at the vacuum lines and check for piston movement and you can adjust that with a laptop as well.
The IACV (as Triumph calls it) is out of the picture at speed, though, so I don't think that's the culprit.

Let us know what it turns out to be, please.

(Message edited by SteveFord on June 30, 2017)
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Twisteduly
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2017 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I cant view the log, but I'll throw this out there.

In the data can you view B+ volts? TPS volts?
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2017 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The TPS and O2 both screw up at the same time:
TPS 0.45
O2 0.0
RPM 3423

That sounds like a wiring issue, doesn't it?
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Twisteduly
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2017 - 08:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steve - that tps voltage is low isn't it, like idle reading low - that will screw with the fueling and that effects the o2.
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2017 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That bike must be lurching like crazy.
That is really hard on belts, too. I found that out the hard way.
Maybe it's something as simple as a chafed wire under the airbox. It's always something stupid like that when bikes act up.

Good call on the TPS, I got fixated on the O2 numbers and didn't look at anything else.
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Twisteduly
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just check his thread from almost this time last year, and damned if I posted there also.

I would try to log the tps readings with the key on eng off, and roll the throttle through to see if there are blips or weird readings. they should be smooth and linear to WOT.

Im not ruling out a defective "new" tps or the wiring.

But he is closer to fixing this after throwing parts and time at it now that he has began logging.
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Steveford
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I still like my first idea - pull it off, slob some dielectric in there and preload it. If there's slop in there it will bounce around at steady speed and drive you meshuggina.
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Twisteduly
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My Vic would decide to loose its mind at cruising speed ~70ish on the highways at steady throttle input. I pulled the tps and shook it, it rattled ( slop).

New in, tps reset procedure blah blah etc and she was better than new.

Only did it at cruising speed on the highway well into the ride.

I dont know if the pot can be accessed to pack it with digrease
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Twisteduly
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

08 wiring diagram shows sensor ground #1 is shared with the iat and the tps.

Log show IAT???

That ground is 1 of 3 wires on the tps
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Steveford
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The IAT voltage holds steady, the TPS and O2 sensor readings are whacked out at cruising speed, they bounce around all over the place. Preload the TPS a little bit sez me.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey guys, Thanks for the replies. I have been out of town for a few days with the family for the 4th so I didn't have a chance to reply. At what point in the log do you guys see this TPS and 02 go wacky? Can you give me a time in the play log so I can jump right to it? I have been talking back and fourth with IDS as well and they asked me to send them my ECM and the log as there was an update for my ECM and they would re-flash it for free as long as I paid shipping to them.

Hugh, I replaced the intake seals last year as they were leaking. Doesn't mean the new ones are not leaking. I should check again for good measure.

Steve, It is lurching pretty good at cruising speeds and is driving me crazy. I am off for the next 3 days and Am gonna do a few more logged runs and recheck all the wiring again. I wish I had a dyno I could run this on and wiggle the wires and see if it makes it worse or better. I also cleaned every ground last week before I left out of town. Unless I am missing a ground, I did the grounds under the seat and battery tray and also cleaned the grounds at the front behind the headlight. Am I missing any others? I am going to recheck the TPS as well.

Again, I appreciate all the help with this. I have no good shops around here that know or work on Buell's. When I tell them what I have, they give me the deer in the headlights look lol.
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Steveford
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 04:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The display shows three runs so for the middle run look at around 95 seconds.
Pull the TPS off and you'll see that it's spring loaded and has some engagement tangs.
Get the tangs partially engaged and wind it up just a little bit and bolt it snug.
I have to do the same to my Useless again at 105,000 as when it gets hot it'll cough and the idle will drop.
That's what is screwing you up. The fix isn't that hard, it just takes a little time. You have slop in the mechanism itself when it's installed.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unless I am looking at the log differently than you, I am not seeing those readings at the 95 second mark. I am showing readings TPS 13.1, 02 0.645 and RPM at 3516. The log shows a total of 865.890s. Were you using the 95.000 seconds from the log?

What data are you looking at in the quick view graphs? I am using RPM, Gego, 02, TPD, CLT, MAT, and Batt. Voltg. Just trying to use the same view so I am on the same page as you guys when looking at this data.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 - 07:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well I am getting my IDS ECM back tomorrow. Andy at IDS analyzed my log and ran one of his Uly's on the dyno to work out some of the kinks that I was having. Wonder if he used my ECM i shipped back to rubn on the dyno and then make changes and reflash it. Looking forward to getting my ECM back and testing with it.

Currently I am running the stock ECM and one thing I did notice today is that my TPS zero seems to be different every few days. I checked it a few days ago and it was 4.6. Opened the throttle and let it slam shut and it was at 4.0. Today it was at 5.0. I opened and let it shut and it stayed at 5.0. I came back and checked it after dinner and it was at 5.0 still. Performed the 08+ TPS reset and rechecked and it was back at 4.0. WTF is that all about. maybe part of my issue. I tried loading the TPS as Steveford suggested but not sure if the 07 and older Uly's have a spring loaded TPS. The 08+ have a TPS sensor that is not spring loaded and just rides on the end of the shaft. Since the throttle shaft is spring loaded, I would assume a spring loaded TPS is not necessary. Just some observations. Looking forward to getting IDS ECM back tomorrow. FYI they are awesome there and reflashed the ECM for just the cost of me shipping it to them. Great customer service on their part.
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Sagehawk
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

good to here that they are helpful and back their products 100 %.
wanted to ask if the changes on the tps were across the board. % opening , angle , and voltage? all three erratic or can you see that on your droid program? Maybe some way to look at throttle shaft a bit closer to make sure its not in the process of breaking or?
Surely all the tps out there have some range of looseness where they are mounted. no slack is the goal.
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Jhallgren
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was viewing the TPS with ECMDroid. I was only checking the degree of open and closed. WOT is always the same. Just thought it was odd at closed throttle.

Also not sure if the 08+ bikes had the throttle shaft issue like the earlier Uly's did. At least I have never read of one breaking. But that was my thought as well. Might need to check it this weekend. Gonna wait and see after I get the ECM back.

(Message edited by jhallgren on July 26, 2017)
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Sagehawk
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2017 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

since this thread is about logs, I wanted to ask
in mlv , ve analyzer, what do yall put in afr field? and what is put in ego correction field?
I'm using spy ver. 2, and instead of tps 8 bit , I'm using load as the default.
just trying to be sure I'm on the right path. using gego in ego correction field at this time. thanks
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Ourdee
Posted on Friday, July 28, 2017 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://idspd.com/xcart/?target=main

Very stand-up peeps!
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